Mac Pro Reviews Find Impressive Hardware, But Few Software Titles Take Advantage

[monokakata]

Yeah, it might be just as difficult as when you have to pull a rack mount server out on it's sliders - I mean, it's got all those cables plugged in on the back too, and every single time a server is pulled out of a rack in a datacenter, all the cables just fly out!

Yes, that's sarcasm.

Cable management has been a thing for quite some time in the pro space. Anyone that bothers to think about it for a few minutes can solve this problem quite easily.

Silly me. I forgot the part about the magic USB and Thunderbolt cables with locking tabs like those ethernet cables on the rackmounted equipment. I must also have missed the part about the intended users -- you know, the people who are used to 19" racks and that stuff. Those in the pro space, like you said. Hey, it's a pro machine. Right? Pro machine, pro users, pro space. Machine rooms. Rails. Boxes that slide out. Right. Got it.

I never saw a machine room with spinning cylinders on desktops, though. Send me a picture of yours, OK?

Yes, that's sarcasm too.

 

[LordVic]

also< who hasn't pulled a rack server out for some reason, and accidentally pulled a wire or two out of it in the process.

That wasn't a fun day.

 

[barkmonster]

I am smiling at the intense criticism of the 'rear' ports.

I have a MacBook Pro, you know, with all the connectors on the side. Whenever my MacBook is living on my desk it has 2 usb cables plugged into it even if there is nothing plugged into them. If I had a MacPro it would be the same. If I am too lazy to unplug a cable from the side, I would be having a couple cables snaking around from the back of my Pro ready to go.

Does anybody else rehear the clamor that the touch screen keyboard of the original iPhone would never fly when reading these rants on Apple's latest whatever? I am a touch typist! You can't type by touch on a screen! Fail!

I have easy access to 2 USB ports on the left side of my Mac Mini and an unpowered USB hub/splitter lead plugged in too for easy access to at least 4 available USB ports at any given time. Just one USB 3.0 equivalent would be enough for a lot of people with a Mac Pro and it's not as if they're much more expensive than USB cables anyway. It's just a little planning ahead.

My current setup has all my data and perpherals via USB 2.0 or Firewire 800 (With USB 3.0/eSATA capability). Whatever mac I get next, I'll have the hub for easy access to more ports and at worst, I'd need to buy a few USB 3.0 leads. I need hundreds of pounds worth of software upgrades to even use Mavericks on ANY mac (including my own) because some of it is so old, it works on a G4 under Leopard but when I have them all, any Quad Core desktop Mac or Macbook Pro will integrate with my setup perfectly and give me an enormous boost in CPU power.

 

[ThatGuyInLa]

Apple saves AMD?

What kind of back room deal was done between Apple and AMD (ATI)? Wow.

Apple basically has saved AMD's "Pro-market" earnings with this move. Forcing software vendors to support OpenCL so that AMD (ATI) GPUs are still relevant.

Apple very easily could have put NVIDIA CUDA cards in there. Some one is getting PAID.

 

[barkmonster]

What kind of back room deal was done between Apple and AMD (ATI)? Wow.

Apple basically has saved AMD's "Pro-market" earnings with this move. Forcing software vendors to support OpenCL so that AMD (ATI) GPUs are still relevant.

Apple very easily could have put NVIDIA CUDA cards in there. Some one is getting PAID.

I'm sure AMD might be scraping by on what they earn from GPUs in the PS4 in Xbox One and countless laptops and desktops to be honest

 

[LordVic]

I'm sure AMD might be scraping by on what they earn from GPUs in the PS4 in Xbox One and countless laptops and desktops to be honest

AMD's "ATI" devision that is run out of Markham Ontario has actually done tremendously well financially.

its about the only portion of the company the last couple years that was. Their GPU's have been keeping large portions of the company going.

the PS4 and XB one has been that much of a bonus for GPU and is helping their CPU business as well.

 

[Umbongo]

I'm sure AMD might be scraping by on what they earn from GPUs in the PS4 in Xbox One and countless laptops and desktops to be honest

You might want to look at AMD's financials and analysis of where they are at before making such comments. They still have fight left in them and they are moving in to growth markets, but this is a big deal for them. Apple could be increasing their FirePro GPU numbers by 50% for 2014.

 

[the8thark]

If they had a HW configuration that was say $2499 and did not include a 2nd GPU, it would be a much easier decision. Having one side "spare" for growth screams expandability. Locked into two GPUs screams "Pro" = Video Editor.

Well it is called the Mac Pro for a reason you know.

 

[LordVic]

Well it is called the Mac Pro for a reason you know.

eh. if Apple assumes the only "pro" people in this world are video content editors, they're goign to be doing themselves no favour.

The millions of other people who use computers for their works might have something to argue with that. There are millions who could use extremely powerful Apple workstations for their professional careers.

There are millions however who have no use for 2 firepro GPU's

They are still 'Professional's' too you know.

 

[the8thark]

Considering it's a cylinder, you could say it's coming out the front, too.

Or the sides.

Apart from the top and bottom when does a cylinder (basically a circle for the parts that matter) have sides? There is no sides.

----------

Not to worry, I'm sure someone is working on a low profile Lazy Susan on rails that will only cost $49.

...and if not, this post is time stamped.

I bought one for someone as a christmas present. Only cost me $10.

----------

eh. if Apple assumes the only "pro" people in this world are video content editors, they're goign to be doing themselves no favour.

The millions of other people who use computers for their works might have something to argue with that. There are millions who could use extremely powerful Apple workstations for their professional careers.

There are millions however who have no use for 2 firepro GPU's

They are still 'Professional's' too you know.

There is a difference between professional and prosumer. True Professionals probably want/need the MP. Prosumers need to decide if the MP or a top end iMac is better for them.

 

[LordVic]

There is a difference between professional and prosumer. True Professionals probably want/need the MP. Prosumers need to decide if the MP or a top end iMac is better for them.

not even venturing into the "prosumer" market with my comment. I'm talking purely inviduals who have need for fast workstation computers for their daily lives who work and breath on their machines. These are things that will likely never get GPU style processing support. Financial institution back ends don't tend to load up with GPU based computational power... just doesn't happen and if it ever will, will be more likely 10 years down the road. Financial institutions are very VERY picky about new technologies and wont go that way till it is 100% proven, tested and already mature in the market



I'm on my computer for 60+ hours a week. its my primary business tool. my job is kind of broad. But it's not media production. I work as a enterprise level software installation analyst. Installing, supporting, configuring and testing database systems and software for banks and financial institutions.

I would absolutely love to get my hands on a reasonably priced, quiet, cool, and sexy looking beast of a computer that has high performance parts.

I absolutely consider myself a professional user, not a prosumer.

but the new Mac pro can't work for me. well it can. those Xeon's would be sexy to have. But the fact I can't remove a GPU for a 2nd CPU, or even just drop the workstation GPU's for a consumer GPU (hey, i like the occasional game) and save a few bucks means that Apple has pretty much told me I am not worth their time.

Which really sucks, cause up till they announced the tube, I was saving money to buy a Pro.

I dont want an iMac. I dont like having everything All in one like that, in a display I don't want to replace (I typically go 10 years between display changes). Mac Mini isn't powerfull enough for me. Testing to see how well code runs (I dont code, just run it and compile it). Running extensive database queries and database reporting takes serious CPU chops. And I don't need a laptop for work as I'm mostly with my but in my seat.

I have a macbook air for my mobile needs anyways, which is usually just RDPing to client sites anyways to support them.

So what has Apple effectively told me with the new Pro? Go somewhere else. and I will. my Athlon II x4 is not cutting it anymore. I am actually noticing tremendous bottlenecks in my RAM bandwith from the CPU.

 

[the8thark]

not even venturing into the "prosumer" market with my comment.

So the MP can do your job well but it won't satisfy your leisure time needs as well? Well that's not Apple's problem. A Pro as you are works on their machine. The Pro will do pretty good as a gaming machine I assure you. Not the best gaming PC ever but unless you want >60fps on HD+ resolutions you'll be fine. And you need >60hz monitor to notice >60 fps. And I really don't think >60fps is really useful in any way.

So your argument though true for you, needs to be rethought in my opinion.

 

[LordVic]

So the MP can do your job well but it won't satisfy your leisure time needs as well? Well that's not Apple's problem. A Pro as you are works on their machine. The Pro will do pretty good as a gaming machine I assure you. Not the best gaming PC ever but unless you want >60fps on HD+ resolutions you'll be fine. And you need >60hz monitor to notice >60 fps. And I really don't think >60fps is really useful in any way.

So your argument though true for you, needs to be rethought in my opinion.

thats not what I said

I said that those workstation GPU's are a major component of the cost of the new Mac Pro, and with absolutely zero options to downgrade from them, the new Pro is absolutely not a good buy for me because my work cannot in any way use those cards. Despite bieng a "professional". Apple is ignoring the fact that not all professionals in this world are in video production.

so, if i want an OSx based professional grade workstation that has hardware reasonably optioned for any other workload, I have no options.


gaming is always a nice. but not requirement. heck, i basically only play Counterstrike these days.. I think i could use a Geforce 3ti still for it

But don't tell me i'm not a professional computer user just because I have no use for 2x expensive workstation GPU's

 

[Renzatic]

Apart from the top and bottom when does a cylinder (basically a circle for the parts that matter) have sides? There is no sides.

You got it.

 

[barkmonster]

AMD's "ATI" devision that is run out of Markham Ontario has actually done tremendously well financially.

its about the only portion of the company the last couple years that was. Their GPU's have been keeping large portions of the company going.

the PS4 and XB one has been that much of a bonus for GPU and is helping their CPU business as well.

and

You might want to look at AMD's financials and analysis of where they are at before making such comments. They still have fight left in them and they are moving in to growth markets, but this is a big deal for them. Apple could be increasing their FirePro GPU numbers by 50% for 2014.

Anyone who fails understand basic sarcasm even with the handy hint of a smiley at the end is wasting their time "educating" me to be honest.

 

[LordVic]

Anyone who fails understand basic sarcasm even with the handy hint of a smiley at the end is wasting their time "educating" me to be honest.

thats not the sarcasm smiley

thats the "im winking at you cause i'm smarter and have to talk down to you" smiley

(just kidding)

I'd rather use this for sarcasm though

 

[the8thark]

But don't tell me i'm not a professional computer user just because I have no use for 2x expensive workstation GPU's

I didn't tell you this. And you can wait for the dual GPUs to be really optimised in the future or buy a windows box made to how you want it. Like the MP, buy it, don't like the MP, don't buy it. Pretty simple.

Apple is not catering to the very tiny minorities such as yourself.

 

[LordVic]

I didn't tell you this. And you can wait for the dual GPUs to be really optimised in the future or buy a windows box made to how you want it. Like the MP, but it, don't like the MP, don't buy it. Pretty simple.

Apple is not catering to the very tiny minorities such as yourself.

all i'm trying to say is that it's the opposit that is true.

Apple is catering to an extremely niche group. Media Production in the computer world is actually a very very very very tiny fraction. This new Mac pro is more directed towards a smaller target audience than their last pro was, purely because they are dictating what has to be there, rather than giving choice.

 

[the8thark]

all i'm trying to say is that it's the opposit that is true.

Apple is catering to an extremely niche group. Media Production in the computer world is actually a very very very very tiny fraction. This new Mac pro is more directed towards a smaller target audience than their last pro was, purely because they are dictating what has to be there, rather than giving choice.

I actually see the new MP with more choice. You can hook in whatever you want, not limited to that huge case, more portable, etc etc. Sure you can't play around with the insides as much but this is what the majority of the pros want. Apple would not have designed it this way if Apple did not believe this is what the majority of the pros want.

Also Apple often think about what you want in years time, not just what you want today.

 

[LordVic]

I actually see the new MP with more choice. You can hook in whatever you want, not limited to that huge case, more portable, etc etc. Sure you can't play around with the insides as much but this is what the majority of the pros want. Apple would not have designed it this way if Apple did not believe this is what the majority of the pros want.

Also Apple often think about what you want in years time, not just what you want today.

oh, I agree, it's arather interesting and exciting change. has it's pro's and con's. I rather like the look (though I want a gunmetal black one!)

Apple is trying to change how we look at workstation computers. I applaud that. as someone who's tried the SFF several times ( have like 3 different SFF sitting in a closet at home still from old bygone eras) I love it.

I just dont like the lack of internal choice at this point. My hope is that in years time apple will maybe release a 2nd iteration to compliment this that has a broader appeal than just media professionals.

 

[flat five]

all i'm trying to say is that it's the opposit that is true.

Apple is catering to an extremely niche group. Media Production in the computer world is actually a very very very very tiny fraction. This new Mac pro is more directed towards a smaller target audience than their last pro was, purely because they are dictating what has to be there, rather than giving choice.

i don't get it.. how can a general computer be very good at media production (i.e.- some of the more demanding computations) and not good at other stuff?

what field, exactly, is the nmp not going to be good for? or- what industry was using the mp1 but no longer can use mac pro?

you're speaking super loosely here without using any actual examples-- which allows you to speak loosely even though it doesn't make sense.

 

[LordVic]

i don't get it.. how can a general computer be very good at media production (i.e.- some of the more demanding computations) and not good at other stuff?

what field, exactly, is the nmp not going to be good for? or- what industry was using the mp1 but no longer can use mac pro?

you're speaking super loosely here without using any actual examples-- which allows you to speak loosely even though it doesn't make sense.

the nMP in it's current configuration will only be as powerful as equal machines with the same CPU for industries that have no ability to leverage those GPU's.

if those GPU's, as estimated are roughtly 50% of the costs involved with the nMP, your performance per dollar of actual use is quite low.

the whole thing banks on GPGPU standards that Apple is pushing being adopted heavily. There are some who will, but there are still a lot of industries that don't really benefit from this.

if Apple chose to for example, keep the same design of this case, rip out 1 of the GPU's and then give a cheaper option for the other GPU, while keeping the ECC ram, Xeon CPU, and everything else thats amazingly fast, but sell it for 1,999 instead of 2,999, as a base I think it woudl have been a better option.

Then let the who want those GPU's upgrade to them or better if they need them.
edit: removing the use of consumer: i'm using it differently than I think most people intend in this particular conversation. when I say consumers, I mean everyone and anyone with purchasing power, including professionals, prosumers and the like.

 

[Umbongo]

and


Anyone who fails understand basic sarcasm even with the handy hint of a smiley at the end is wasting their time "educating" me to be honest.

The fact that two people missed it doesn't give you a clue that it just seemed like an ignorant post?

Sadly there is far too much stupidity on this forum for a winky face to be the sole identifier of sarcasm.

 

[flat five]

the nMP in it's current configuration will only be as powerful as equal machines with the same CPU for industries that have no ability to leverage those GPU's.

if those GPU's, as estimated are roughtly 50% of the costs involved with the nMP, your performance per dollar of actual use is quite low.

the whole thing banks on GPGPU standards that Apple is pushing being adopted heavily. There are some who will, but there are still a lot of industries that don't really benefit from this.

if Apple chose to for example, keep the same design of this case, rip out 1 of the GPU's and then give a cheaper option for the other GPU, while keeping the ECC ram, Xeon CPU, and everything else thats amazingly fast, but sell it for 1,999 instead of 2,999, as a base I think it woudl have been a better option.

Then let the who want those GPU's upgrade to them or better if they need them.
edit: removing the use of consumer: i'm using it differently than I think most people intend in this particular conversation. when I say consumers, I mean everyone and anyone with purchasing power, including professionals, prosumers and the like.

huh? you said this thing is designed for an extremely niche group (video pros).. I'm just asking you to cite specific examples of an industry which can't use the nmp since it's not designed for them.

i'm pretty sure you're going to answer the same thing you already have but you have to realize all this stuff you keep saying doesn't actually reinforce "the nmp is designed for an extremely niche group"

 

[LordVic]

huh? you said this thing is designed for an extremely niche group (video pros).. I'm just asking you to cite specific examples of an industry which can't use the nmp since it's not designed for them.

i'm pretty sure you're going to answer the same thing you already have but you have to realize all this stuff you keep saying doesn't actually reinforce "the nmp is designed for an extremely niche group"

oh I already did, a few times in the last couple pages.

I used my own industry as an example, where a workstation with large amount of ECC ram, fast Xeon CPU's and the like would be excellent.

I for example work in banking and financial software industry. I'm not a developer but a installation technology analyst. I regularly use the high end database systems on local resources for testing purposes. Compiling code. running analysis against databases and manipulation of large amount of transactional data.

its just not something that GPU power is ever used for. is it possible? I dont know. There are smarter minds than my own who develop the backend platforms. however, currently that is not the way it works and in current iterations cannot support that sort of paralel scaling in any way.

if I could get the mac Pro for my desk here and at work but without the GPU's, it would be excellent. I like Mac's, and I own a macbook air and love it.

But I can't justify, especially to the accountants why i need a $3k budget for a machine that comes with parts that are unusable. Meanwhile, There really was no reason why apple didnt provide a machine without workstation GPU's and let people add them as options, like previous mac pros.

by ram rodding 2x workstation GPU's at everyone, no matter what, they've sort of artificially jacked the base price of the unit up. And made it a tough sell for anyone who does not have the ability to leverage the GPU's.

people are harping on the Verge article for being slightly biased. While they are in a sense, They did point out the fact that, unless those GPU's can be leveraged by the software, they are at the core, a money sink into an unusable hardware choice.

IMO, that will due to accountants and the like end up making the new Mac Pro a really tough sell outside of the media profession. those not doing video in Final Cut Pro, if they have to answer to any sort of corporate accountability, will have a hard time convincing the powers to be to hand over the money.

and if theres not enough purchasing going on, with such a remarkably small audience, it will be harder to convince software houses to invest in developing for it.

its a bit of a catch 22. Apple is trying to jump start it by releasing the hardware anyways. I'm just not convinced at this particular configuration, there's enough of an audience.

the unfortunate part, is that there are just some industries like mine that no matter what, cannot widely benefit from GPU processing.