More Details on Jony Ive's Flat iOS 7 Design: Heavier on Black and White

[Xiroteus]

Yeah, because having to buy that drive, get it out and connect it when needed, then pack back away in a draw after is far better than having the optical drive already built in like my current iMac (with the same desktop footprint as the new slimmer driveless model!)

It is ridiculous for a DESKtop machine.

 

[subsonix]

Both are long dead, Neither of which are supported in 10.8, or in 10.7 .

Wrong. Universal binaries is just a property of the Mach-O format which supports fat binaries natively.

But it was an answer to address this:

1) How they quickly transitioned everything from IBM to Intel (even though that required developers to recode from scratch)

First of all, the transition was not quick. No recode from scratch was necessary, as it's still the same platform with the same frameworks, so just recompile for another architecture. UBs and Rosetta was there to make the transition smoother. The applications that have not yet transitioned after the 7 year transition period, are applications that are not actively maintained anyway.

 

[840quadra]

Wrong. Universal binaries is just a property of the Mach-O format which supports fat binaries natively.

Thanks for the clairification, I wasn't aware you could still create universal binaries in the current version of X Code, so yes I am wrong on that portion.

But it was an answer to address this:



First of all, the transition was not quick. No recode from scratch was necessary, as it's still the same platform with the same frameworks, so just recompile for another architecture. UBs and Rosetta was there to make the transition smoother. The applications that have not yet transitioned after the 7 year transition period, are applications that are not actively maintained anyway.

What scale are you using to say it was 7 years? Not asking to argue, but I thought support for Rosetta (and PowerPC native applications) stopped when 10.7 started shipping in 2011. Based on Intel systems shipping starting in 2006, that would be 5 years.

Regardless, I agree that 5 - 7 years is a good period of time for most to transition.

 

[robanybody]

Lets all go back to the 1980s. Dig out your copy of Windows 1 and resurrect your Apple Lisa.

 

[cmChimera]

Why do you buy Apple products? What are they most known for?

Simplicity, right? As in "they just work"? They're elegant pieces of machinery you does everything you need them to do far better than the competition, which is one of the major reasons why you're all willing to pay a premium for their computers and devices.

So why is it when someone argues about Apple doing something that makes things a good deal more complicated than it should be, so many people here immediately dismiss their complaints as a non-issue?

...does anyone not see the inherit conflict here? You claim to like simple, but when things are anything but, you all give a flippant remark that does nothing to address the subject at hand and say it doesn't matter?

When could have Apple removed the optical drive without anyone complaining? Next year? The year after? Some people have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the the future. People lamenting the loss of a clearly dying medium are those people.

 

[Xiroteus]

Regarding this flat design, of course it all about just being something different to look at, if what they come out with had been around for the last few years people would be tired of it even if it works perfectly. Thinking about it a lot of things can still be functional even if it looks like it was made in 1998 and we do not want that and there is nothing really wrong with changing things even just for the sake of something new, people do that all that time with many things in life.

When could have Apple removed the optical drive without anyone complaining? Next year? The year after? Some people have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the the future. People lamenting the loss of a clearly dying medium are those people.

It could be well past a decade for now and it would remain an option for quite awhile as the future does not do a lot of good for a collection of films or games they already own. Dying is also far from dead, living too far in the future makes it troublesome for living in the present. Apple removed the floppy drive (which is not remotely the same as DVD use) a year before I even started using them. Sure I hated them yet it was cheap at the time and it was my only real option until flash drives were cheap enough.

Laptops can get away with not having them over time far more then desktops can, always good to have the option of playing, burning discs if needed with an internal optical drive.

Personally I like the concept digital content, easy, takes up no real space since hard drive space is cheap, however no one is doing it a method I care for, either too locked down or expensive when it comes to rentals, movies and a lot of games when new. (Steam is great when cheap) I'm even trying to move away from wanting optical media, not quite there yet due to costs.

 

[jvmxtra]

I'll be genuinely surprised if Apple releases a phone with a larger screen. They're a fad, not a trend. Literally, screens have just been in a race to be the biggest as of lately, and it's ridiculous. Samsung just keeps increasing the screen size for absolutely no reason. You can see a bit more content, sure, but you run the risk of making it uncomfortable to use. I have relatively big hands, and the GS4 is still uncomfortable to use.

I love the way the iPhone is compact enough to be used with one hand easily, yet big enough to display a good chunk of content. If I need a bigger screen, I go for my iPad. Once tablets become a staple in society, I can see the fad of large screens on phones nosediving.


I do think that iOS needs some major UI overhauls for things like multitasking and settings. I don't think the way Android does multitasking is very good at all, and I think/know that Apple could do it better. Here's hoping that they do!

Definitely agree w/ lot of your points. And definitely no phone operates as smooth as iphone. Having said that, I really wish(and LOT of people also wish the same, and I am talking about die hard apple fans) that apple offers multiple size... I really want just one device that can do both phone and tablet replacement.(I hardly talk on the phone btw).

And Yes, I will continue to have huge interest in apple

 

[KyleKlink]

All you people bashing it before you've seen it are pretty sad. Just by that description I can tell it's going to be amazing. It'll likely set the standard for mobile OSes just like the original iOS did. If you guys would actually use it before rushing to form an opinion then maybe you'd see that.

I'm all for holding off on judgement until we see and get to use the OS. However, I fail to see the difference between trashing the OS before seeing it and your praising it before seeing it. How is it you can declare it will set the standard for mobile OS's when you've not seen it?

 

[cmChimera]

It could be well past a decade for now and it would remain an option for quite awhile as the future does not do a lot of good for a collection of films or games they already own. Dying is also far from dead, living too far in the future makes it troublesome for living in the present. Apple removed the floppy drive (which is not remotely the same as DVD use) a year before I even started using them. Sure I hated them yet it was cheap at the time and it was my only real option until flash drives were cheap enough.

Laptops can get away with not having them over time far more then desktops can, always good to have the option of playing, burning discs if needed with an internal optical drive.

Personally I like the concept digital content, easy, takes up no real space since hard drive space is cheap, however no one is doing it a method I care for, either too locked down or expensive when it comes to rentals, movies and a lot of games when new. (Steam is great when cheap) I'm even trying to move away from wanting optical media, not quite there yet due to costs.

This is what i'm talking about. If you're saying that a decade from now people would STILL complain, then clearly Apple is doing the right thing. Progress doesn't halt for a few people that can't adapt.

 

[WeegieMac]

Sorry, I forgot, I'm dealing with Apple fans here; let me explain ... because you obviously didn't get the gist of what I was saying ...

Take my current iMac, make it slimmer by removing the optical drive (delivering 100% zero benefit to me or anyone else other than bragging rights of 'look how thin it is'), charge people more for the latest iMac, then make them outlay further £'s for an external optical drive that takes up more desk space ... when my old optical drive took up zero (free) space as it was inside the casing. Its simple if you engage some thought.

Also, before any sheep or other closed minded people ask, I use an optical drive to:

Load music to itunes
Burn music discs for myself and others
Burn DVD's
Back-up data to disc
Load software to my mac

Yes life can go on without one if you have all the pre-requisit kit and are happy to live your life by the cloud. Sorry though, i like to do things my way, not that dictated by people like Apple (because I'm sure they're not doing it to make my life easier (as opposed to making money!)

I got to your first sentence then stopped reading.

You said an optical drive takes up "ZERO SPACE". You are aware of the term zero and it's meaning, yes? A component, a physical being, cannot take up "zero" space. Your play on words was ridiculous and over zealous, THAT'S what I picked up on, Apple "fan" or not. I wasn't challenging your use, or anyone else's use, of optical drives. I didn't defend Apple's decision to remove optical drives or not, yet you've decided to come back on here, climb on your high horse, and label me an "iSheep" (God, it's like Primary school in here at times). I took issue with the somewhat ridiculous use of the term "zero space". Now, I actually did see the point you were making, but you worded it extremely poorly.

Now, you could have very well put together a very constructive post after that first sentence, but to start a reply to someone by going into some stereotypical mindset is ridiculous.

 

[Xiroteus]

As a general note - I think the debate on optical drives being useful is not exclusive to Apple fans which I have noticed being talked about a handful of times. Maybe at a higher percentage rate then non Apple PC's yet a lot of people are not as concerned with them as they once may have been.

This is what i'm talking about. If you're saying that a decade from now people would STILL complain, then clearly Apple is doing the right thing. Progress doesn't halt for a few people that can't adapt.

I believe there will always be a group of people that will never want to move away from optical media based on what they already own alone. Progress may be a debatable term regarding this as lower quality media will be thought of as a downgrade to many while the delivery method will be thought of as the future.

To some degree it is true that we cannot wait around for everyone to be ready to move to the next format otherwise we would still be on VHS and other old formats. However when it comes to content there is normally a leap in quality while the current move is more about convenience.

I would likely go with saying a full desktop machine should retain an optical drive (no reason for the Mac Pro not to have one) while the laptops could likely move away from them like they are due to the nature of the system and most people own more then just one machine to do every task on.

A lot of my opinions are based on costs, if funds were not an issue (lets say I won the lottery) I likely would just rent and or buy everything in digital format because it is convenient and I would not be so concerned with it being over priced like I feel it currently is. The idea of the future format is great if one is obsessed with saving every penny they can and not used to dollar DVD's. (me)

 

[alephnull12]

I think the most equivalent app on OS X is not NotePad but Stickies. It also pretty much goes back to the dawn of time, I'd say it's very much a part of the OS personality.

Perhaps true, but that is a dumb situation, because iPhone notepad syncs with OSX notepad, not with stickies.

 

[chadley_chad]

Ah and clearly you do with your sample size of 80.

well it's 80 more than anyone else has mentioned!!!

 

[glenz]

Not sure if this has been posted yet...

The dreaded black and white!

http://osxdaily.com/2013/05/25/ios-7-rumors/


I like it.

 

[Renzatic]

Not sure if this has been posted yet...

The dreaded black and white!

http://osxdaily.com/2013/05/25/ios-7-rumors/


I like it.

If iOS 7 has a multitasker like that, I will get down on bended knee and give thanks to the alter of Steve Jobs I have set up in the spare bedroom.

 

[AidenShaw]

Wow first world problems.

Crazy over-entitled indulgent first world problems...

 

[DeathChill]

If iOS 7 has a multitasker like that, I will get down on bended knee and give thanks to the alter of Steve Jobs I have set up in the spare bedroom.

For shame! You should have an altar to Steve Jobs in every room.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Crazy over-entitled indulgent first world problems...

Now now, the over brightness is a real problem blinding all my family this very moment! Think of our children!!

For shame! You should have an altar to Steve Jobs in every room.

In a way we do, since some of us do have some sort of Jobs-led device in almost every room.

Speaking of Ive's influence, I feel lonely saying this but I miss the old typedeck on my podcast app whenever I use it.

 

[gluckett]

vs is a tool for coders not for candy lovers photoshop kiddos. vs is for work, not for fun and rainbows

Sorry, no fun and rainbows here and I don't commute on a magic unicorn. Trust me - if you use it for work all day you want something (i.e. color) to help distinguish the buttons rather than trying to figure out two icons that look nearly identical. And hate to burst your bubble, but a good number of the iOS audience is your so-called "candy lover photoshop kiddos".

 

[MikeyMike01]

I really like the way iOS is currently designed, for the most part. I'll reserve judgement until I see it revealed, but I can't say I'm terribly excited about this alleged upheaval.

 

[wc17]

All I've seen on these forums is complaining about how iOS was getting stale and that we need a change etc etc etc so I can't believe how much bitching is happening just based on rumours of a new iOS...

I for one am excited for a new look, new lock screen, new multitasking (maybe?), updated notification centre with quick settings and a couple more widgets...bring it on! If they add some zephyr like gestures id be in heaven! Lol

 

[Drunken Master]

Those guys from Tableau are probably weenies. Never ask and IT guy or any nerd what's cool, because generally speaking they don't have a clue. Or at least, even if they are right, what they say has no meaning so far as the rest (99% of the planet) is concerned. Nothing Apple has ever done that was wildly successful ever had weenie-appeal.

You saw it with the mac. All the weenies said the mac was stupid and a waste of money, all you needed was DOS. They mocked mac users and their cute little garbage cans and said DOS was what real computer users use. Then Windows 3.1 came around. The UI sucked. The weenies said that to be a cool computer user, you had to know how to fool around with Regedit, and it was still better than Mac. It wasn't. It sucked. Then came windows XP. It was basically a mac. Then the weenies immediately went to their control panels and changed their OS theme to the old Windows NT one, instead of the slicker XP one, because real nerd don't need fancy color and they believed it was essential for the ordinary user to save a couple GPU cycles on rendering. Which is a load of crap.

Then came the iPhone. The consensus among weenies was that to have a good smartphone, you had to have a physical keyboard (like the Blackberry), or you had to have a pen input device (like the Palm). Because all weenies know, any serious person types on a keyboard where you can feel the keys with your fingertips, or, if writing, uses a more precise instrument to point like a pen than your finger and learns to write in a heretofore never described hieroglyphic (Palm). Nerdy little guys everywhere were keeping little plastic pens for their Palm computers in their pocket protectors, and they felt this was important to have the finest pointed pointing device possible. Because precision is very important! Then the iPhone came out, and someone decided that all the weenies were just weenies, it's much easier to just point with a finger. They didn't include a pen, because to do so would have been a problem for a capacitive touch screen, and because they knew that if they included a pen, all the weenies would write programs for the iPhone with 50 or a hundred tiny buttons the size of sprinkles on every screen that you could only press with a very tiny weenie-pen that the ordinary person didn't want to bother to keep around. As always, the weenies were completely wrong about what ordinary people wanted. Weenies wanted a precise technological device. Ordinary people wanted something with the lowest intimidation factor possible that could be used without frankly having to engage their brain any more than possible. Because really, they've got other things to do.

Then came the iPad. Once again, weenies thought this must have a keyboard or some other sort of physical input device, because obviously if you're going to pay more for something more useful, it has to be more powerful and allow for faster, more efficient input. Once again, the weenies were wrong. Apple released the iPad, which was basically just a big iPhone. One of the biggest weenies of them all, Steve Ballmer, laughed. Then Apple sold a gazillion of them, and it wasn't so funny anymore. Engineers were disappointed to see such a "stupid" product sell so well, since it would be so much more engineering-chic to have a lightweight device with a tiny keyboard to type on at their engineering meetings. Meanwhile, ordinary people sat on their couches using their iPads, slovenly chowing down Cheetos and spilling crumbs all over the impervious surface, poking their fingers around the web for an hour or two before falling asleep with their more or less indestructible panel-shaped ipads falling between the cracks of their couch. Little two-year old kids poked around at their ipad screens giggling, spilling juice on them, and watching reruns of Barney the Dinosaur.

Weenies are almost always wrong about what 90% of the world wants..

Wow, A+ post.

Deserves to be carved in stone for future generations, no joke.

 

[Brother Esau]

Now I can understand that the world is comprised of many people with many different points of views and also personal preferences but....


Seriously? Why would anyone get excited over a watered down minimal effort tic tact toe design like that?

Talk about completely lack luster and a Epic Vision of failure that will indeed be super imposed on all of us!

WOW ....Jonny Ives you have got to be kidding me with that!

Has anyone heard the old saying that variety is the spice of life? It is said because, quite frankly it is true.

I don't just dislike that design concept, I absolutely think that it's completely hideous!

I do respect everyone's right to their own opinion but, I also think that many people these days just say YES that's great, only to be in agreeance with the masses... ie... the {YES Crowd} that will go for anything that is spoon fed to them whether they like it or not.

How FLAT design has even gotten any kind of approval or traction at all in the Web Design world is just astonishing to say the least. I do a lot of website design and development and personally, once again, talk about completely LACK LUSTER AND LAME!

 

[wc17]

Now I can understand that the world is comprised of many people with many different points of views and also personal preferences but....


Seriously? Why would anyone get excited over a watered down minimal effort tic tact toe design like that?

Talk about completely lack luster and a Epic Vision of failure that will indeed be super imposed on all of us!

WOW ....Jonny Ives you have got to be kidding me with that!

Has anyone heard the old saying that variety is the spice of life? It is said because, quite frankly it is true.

I don't just dislike that design concept, I absolutely think that it's completely hideous!

I do respect everyone's right to their own opinion but, I also think that many people these days just say YES that's great, only to be in agreeance with the masses... ie... the {YES Crowd} that will go for anything that is spoon fed to them whether they like it or not.

How FLAT design has even gotten any kind of approval or traction at all in the Web Design world is just astonishing to say the least. I do a lot of website design and development and personally, once again, talk about completely LACK LUSTER AND LAME!

What in the heck are you jabbering on about? Seriously. None of us has seen ANYTHING yet....gawd damn! Give it a week...let Apple at least show you what they've worked on! And if you dislike it then, at least you have a reason to do so...

 

[teknikal90]

Those guys from Tableau are probably weenies. Never ask and IT guy or any nerd what's cool, because generally speaking they don't have a clue. Or at least, even if they are right, what they say has no meaning so far as the rest (99% of the planet) is concerned. Nothing Apple has ever done that was wildly successful ever had weenie-appeal.

You saw it with the mac. All the weenies said the mac was stupid and a waste of money, all you needed was DOS. They mocked mac users and their cute little garbage cans and said DOS was what real computer users use. Then Windows 3.1 came around. The UI sucked. The weenies said that to be a cool computer user, you had to know how to fool around with Regedit, and it was still better than Mac. It wasn't. It sucked. Then came windows XP. It was basically a mac. Then the weenies immediately went to their control panels and changed their OS theme to the old Windows NT one, instead of the slicker XP one, because real nerd don't need fancy color and they believed it was essential for the ordinary user to save a couple GPU cycles on rendering. Which is a load of crap.

Then came the iPhone. The consensus among weenies was that to have a good smartphone, you had to have a physical keyboard (like the Blackberry), or you had to have a pen input device (like the Palm). Because all weenies know, any serious person types on a keyboard where you can feel the keys with your fingertips, or, if writing, uses a more precise instrument to point like a pen than your finger and learns to write in a heretofore never described hieroglyphic (Palm). Nerdy little guys everywhere were keeping little plastic pens for their Palm computers in their pocket protectors, and they felt this was important to have the finest pointed pointing device possible. Because precision is very important! Then the iPhone came out, and someone decided that all the weenies were just weenies, it's much easier to just point with a finger. They didn't include a pen, because to do so would have been a problem for a capacitive touch screen, and because they knew that if they included a pen, all the weenies would write programs for the iPhone with 50 or a hundred tiny buttons the size of sprinkles on every screen that you could only press with a very tiny weenie-pen that the ordinary person didn't want to bother to keep around. As always, the weenies were completely wrong about what ordinary people wanted. Weenies wanted a precise technological device. Ordinary people wanted something with the lowest intimidation factor possible that could be used without frankly having to engage their brain any more than possible. Because really, they've got other things to do.

Then came the iPad. Once again, weenies thought this must have a keyboard or some other sort of physical input device, because obviously if you're going to pay more for something more useful, it has to be more powerful and allow for faster, more efficient input. Once again, the weenies were wrong. Apple released the iPad, which was basically just a big iPhone. One of the biggest weenies of them all, Steve Ballmer, laughed. Then Apple sold a gazillion of them, and it wasn't so funny anymore. Engineers were disappointed to see such a "stupid" product sell so well, since it would be so much more engineering-chic to have a lightweight device with a tiny keyboard to type on at their engineering meetings. Meanwhile, ordinary people sat on their couches using their iPads, slovenly chowing down Cheetos and spilling crumbs all over the impervious surface, poking their fingers around the web for an hour or two before falling asleep with their more or less indestructible panel-shaped ipads falling between the cracks of their couch. Little two-year old kids poked around at their ipad screens giggling, spilling juice on them, and watching reruns of Barney the Dinosaur.

Weenies are almost always wrong about what 90% of the world wants.

GRANTED, I do think that the iPhone skeumorphism could use some refreshment. From my perspective, the most important thing would be to update / regionalize it in some way. For example, I'm pretty sure that everyone in the US knows what the general use of yellow lined paper is, but that may not be the case elsewhere in the world. In Japan, I seriously doubt they use yellow lined paper for much of anything. But that's a regionalization problem, not a general interface problem.

Because it's a notepad. For taking notes, and clipping and pasting little bits of information from here and there into one place for future reference. Having a notepad that uses multiple fonts is actually a pain in the ass, because then every time you cut and paste a little piece of information from the web into your notepad, it comes out with a different font and a different font size, designed for a web page ten times the size, looking quite retarded and illegible. Then, you'll find when you continue on typing, you're typing with the same font as the last letter of the last thing you pasted into your notepad, which is probably huge and taking up 10 times the space that you want it to. Then you have to dick around trying to get the font back to some semblance of something uniform and orderly (organized). It's a huge pain in the ass.

Unfortunately, the genius who made the NotePad for OS X didn't get this, so if you cut and paste things from elsewhere it comes out looking like crap.



Eventually? Why should a UI adopt something that people will "eventually" get used to, rather than something that is immediately apparent and uses little or no thought?

Frankly, I'm not interested in wasting any brain cells to have to remember what color scheme is more in-keeping with a calendar than an e-mail. I have better things to do.

... Clearly, kids love skeumorphism, older people love skeumorphism, and probably the majority of people in between would rather use it. In my opinion, mostly, the people who find it offensive are probably weenies.

I'll reserve judgment on the new UI until I see it. But, if remembering colors are an important component of thinking about how to use it, I can tell you, that already pretty much sucks. I'll hope there is something else to go on.

I'm quoting this post just so I have a history of it. Best post on Macrumors in a long long time.