So how skewed, exactly, do you think it is?
If you don't like this data, what have you got that's better?
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POLL: Have you returned your 2016 Pro?
- Thread starter Ovedius
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So how skewed, exactly, do you think it is?
If you don't like this data, what have you got that's better?
Well, I never returned any Apple product before, since 2007. This time I did and I do not plan to get anything new with this generation of MBPs. I was willing to buy a machine for 3,300 $ and do not look back after returning it. Thats quite a shift.
What I am saying: if you are returning your MBP you are most likely unhappy and more likely to vote in a poll asking if you returned it.
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How many Macs have you bought since 2007?
I returned my 2013 rMBP because I was unhappy with it and here I am. It is not indicative of anything unless its a trend going forward.
Edit: By the way, every single year when a new MBP or iMac comes out, this same sort of thread happens. People talk about quality going down etc etc. This isn't suddenly new. People seem to think their dissatisfaction is widespread. And with people who are unhappy more inclined to post on these forums it certainly *looks* to backup their feelings when they see others saying the same things.
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Yes, I understood that.
My question is, how much more likely?
Can you quantify that? Because if not, your observation is even less informative than the poll results.
I'd have to go look, but I've bought probably over a dozen macs since 2007. Returned exactly two, both 2016 rMBP.
And yeah, there's always some complaints, but this is a wildly different scale of complaint. I was one of the people complaining about the rMBP, and I've continued to complain about it, but I was fully aware that most of the people I know did not care as much as I did about ethernet or antiglare screens. Now? Every Mac user I know or talk to outside of these forums is upset. Every. Single. One. We're talking way over a dozen people. I went on a business trip, I had dinner with friends, I mentioned laptops, I got a bunch of ranting about how all the Mac users are furious because the new laptop sucks. One of the die-hard Mac users at work compared the 2016 unfavorably to getting punched in the face. The two people I know at work who have them are both at least sort of unhappy with them.
This is different, and denying it won't change that.
When I bought my first retina MBP in 2012 the situation online was much worse then it is now. All sorts of complaints for all sorts of problems. Glitches with the discrete gpu, screen retention, screen flickering due to interference with wifi, delamination, performance, memory, price. I was totally convinced the machine was garbage and decided to sit it out...
But then I saw one in the store. The allure of the big retina screen was so strong (I am a sucker for retina screens just for the way they render text, i want all my screens to go retina just so that I can read documentation on them like reading printed paper. I don't want to see a single pixel ever again) that I bought it impulsively right away. I've never owned a better computer. Absolutely trouble free and a real delight to use every single time..
People only seem to think there is a big deal when *they* experience problems. I have seen it on these forums every single new product release. iPad, iPhone, iMac, MBP, etc...
This year is *no* different. In fact, I have seen less people complaining about screen uniformity than in the past so there may actually be less complaining than in prior years
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It is easy to make these claims. For every one of you, there will be people who say everyone they knows loves the laptop.
It's anecdotal and not reflective of the entire audience.
It is totally different.
Look, if you're happy, all you see is "some people are unhappy". You don't care about them, you don't agree with them, you dismiss it.
I've been unhappy with the rMBP since launch. And since launch, I've been absolutely in a small minority on the MacRumors forums, with very few other people agreeing with me at all.
Now, suddenly, there's a lot more people sharing my opinions. It's very noticeable.
And your basis for dismissal is that people who dislike the machine show up and see everyone else disliking it and think everyone agrees. But my experience directly contradicts this. I've disliked the rMBP line all along, I've been complaining about them since the first one was launhced... And until the 2016 MBP, there were only a tiny handful of people on MacRumors who agreed with me. It was quite obvious.
This is a change.
I hardly expect it to be reflective of the entire audience, sure. But I think there's enough there to justify thinking that there may be an actual difference.
I have been a loyalist for a long time. Got the new 15"MacBook Pro and absolutely love it with all the "problems"! (still looking for them)
This is not the thread to either attack those who are displeased with or those who love Apple's latest and greatest.
So please leave your salty attitude at the door, keep your trolling jabs and flame baiting to yourself.
Poor manners will be reported
Thanks for being the opinion police. LOL
I think it's always worth looking at when long-term fans say "hang on, this is not okay, this is not what I am a fan of".
I think my first mac was 1987, and I started using NeXTStep in 1988 or 1989. I've been a fan of this operating system for longer than a lot of the people saying there's definitely no problems here have been alive.
And yes, there are problems. There are problems which are fundamentally different from the usual background of discontent we get around here.
I check these forums everyday. I honestly do not see any significant % of more people unhappy compared to each of the last Mac launches. Maybe I am not looking hard enough
Without taking any political or other side, I have to say that being emotionally displeased of things people personally don't like has become more of a virtue that for quite a while during past couple of years. This seems to apply to almost everybody. I consider rants on MBPs an extension of this societal trend. There are much more important fields of discussion, too; both in the US and in Europe, for instance, polar opposites have decided to be equipped with the ultimate truth, no matter how foggy the landscape on the subject might be.
It wasn't really such a virtue to choose sides on basis of mostly emotional reaction just half a decade ago - or so I think. Everybody involved on these battles has fallen in love with their own opinion now, though, and tend to gang with people agreeing with them.
I'm not disappointed with my laptop. I'm disappointed with people and societies going that way. I wish things turn for the better, eventually. *Everybody* seems to be in some sort of a psychosis.
The 13 tbMBP was the first Mac I have ever returned from Apple (maxed out model).
Basically, the main reason was the battery life which was just unacceptable and inconsistent. There were other issues, such as Touch Bar black outs and display freezes (both of which required full system restarts to fix) and these were occurring several times a day. I could have waited for a software fix, but when all of this was put together I couldn't have all these issues on a work machine that cost $3000.
I did end up picking up a low end ntbMPB that was onside from BH for $1350 (although I had to do a bunch of selective syncing with Dropbox and Google Drive in order to handle the 256 drive) to see if the machine is worth the minor upgrade for now. Overall, the battery is MUCH better in the non touch bar model, and it is quite noticeable because it is really just a rMBA.
I do think I will likely be returning this also though, because it turns out I do miss the Touch Bar and Touch ID too much to warrant a half-upgrade with the non-touch bar model.
Ideally for me would be the Touch Bar and Touch ID added to the non Touch bar model, because it has the Air processor and more battery, but Apple didn't make that machine.
The keyboard, trackpad, screen and speakers are all amazing on both machines. The build quality and physical design is striking as well, although the Space Gray on my tbMBP started to get a few blemishes (spots that lost the gray paint) so that is a concern because I treat the machines extremely well and didn't hit anything onto them.
I will see where this goes with Apple, but the battery situation in the tbMBP is real. Forget CR, the Bloomberg story screams volumes, and its backed up by the empty space in both the 13" and 15" models. The ntbMBP however is a great machine for what it is.
Basically, the main reason was the battery life which was just unacceptable and inconsistent. There were other issues, such as Touch Bar black outs and display freezes (both of which required full system restarts to fix) and these were occurring several times a day. I could have waited for a software fix, but when all of this was put together I couldn't have all these issues on a work machine that cost $3000.
I did end up picking up a low end ntbMPB that was onside from BH for $1350 (although I had to do a bunch of selective syncing with Dropbox and Google Drive in order to handle the 256 drive) to see if the machine is worth the minor upgrade for now. Overall, the battery is MUCH better in the non touch bar model, and it is quite noticeable because it is really just a rMBA.
I do think I will likely be returning this also though, because it turns out I do miss the Touch Bar and Touch ID too much to warrant a half-upgrade with the non-touch bar model.
Ideally for me would be the Touch Bar and Touch ID added to the non Touch bar model, because it has the Air processor and more battery, but Apple didn't make that machine.
The keyboard, trackpad, screen and speakers are all amazing on both machines. The build quality and physical design is striking as well, although the Space Gray on my tbMBP started to get a few blemishes (spots that lost the gray paint) so that is a concern because I treat the machines extremely well and didn't hit anything onto them.
I will see where this goes with Apple, but the battery situation in the tbMBP is real. Forget CR, the Bloomberg story screams volumes, and its backed up by the empty space in both the 13" and 15" models. The ntbMBP however is a great machine for what it is.
I wish I had the link to when the unibody MBP was released back in 2008. The backlash on these forums was hilarious. You'd have thought it was the worst machine ever made. I think we know how that did. Only time will tell, but people saying there has never been complaining like this over a Mac have a skewed view of the past. I'm not surprised there are glitches when an entirely new machine is released. It sucks if it happens to you, I might even need to get my Touch ID button fixed, but I still enjoy the machine. I expect these complaints to be resolved when we're paying so much, but I'm not surprised or concerned that there are glitches. It's a 1st gen product and we're early adopters. Happens ALL the time.
No, because this is such an awesome machine. It is in every way superior to the 2015 model is succeeds. 10-12 hours battery life under normal use, hasn't been anything but rock solid for me...Touch bar takes a few weeks to get into and used to, and for it to start becoming more useful. Can understand why people are saying it is just a gimmick after a few minutes playing in a store or even a few days or a week of use - but it definitely does grow on you! The TB3 ports are awesome! Their flexibility feels liberating, have used all the ports for different sorts of i/o - video, charging, data...
Have been nothing but satisfied.
Have been nothing but satisfied.
I returned the 2016 15" i7 2.7 R 455 512Gb SSD for the 2016 15" 2.9GHZ R460 with 1TB SSD. I kept my Late 2011 for 4 years, so I thought I'd get the top of the line to last another 4 years.
I really don't understand why people are upgrading from 2015 or even 2013 models, does not seem to be that significant of a bump. Now from 2011 to 2016, its like night and day.
I really don't understand why people are upgrading from 2015 or even 2013 models, does not seem to be that significant of a bump. Now from 2011 to 2016, its like night and day.
1st: Exchanged a 13" nTB for a 13" TB after 7 days of usage.
2nd: Exchanged 13" TB for 15" TB after 10 days usage.
And now I'm seriously contemplating exchanging my 15" MBP for another 13" TB MBP or even a Dell XPS 13.
With all my previous macs I was never this indecisive and previously never exchanged/returned one. But this time around I just can't figure out the ideal MBP. I much prefer the smaller footprint of the 13" while traveling but have also found the extra screen real estate useful on the 15", especially when working on large Excel documents.
However, I'm also realizing that I pretty much never utilize the discrete graphics on the 15". I'm also discovering that I'm almost always within 5-6.5GB RAM usage, making the 16GB in the 15" way overkill for me. So now I'm having buyers remorse, thinking that I shelled out an extra ~$700 over the 13" version for no reason, other than to have some extra screen space.
To make matters worse, while my wife was dress shopping today for an upcoming wedding, I spent about an hour in the Microsoft store testing out a Dell XPS 13 and getting the rundown from one of the sales reps. I haven't owned a Windows machine in about 12 years but I was actually very impressed with Windows 10 and felt that the XPS 13 was a fantastic machine. The worst part was that it was blatant just how much more snappy the XPS 13 was compared to all 3 of the 2016 MBP's I've now owned. It was quite disconcerting to discover this after having just dropped over $2,400 on the current 15" MBP. As much as I hate to admit it, today was an eye opener to me of just how far Windows has come. Add in the fact that for $1,400 I can get the Dell XPS 13 with the same specs as the mid-tear 13" MBP and I truly feel that my money is better spent on something other than an Apple machine for the first time in many years.
Needless to say, I'm all over the place.
I'm actually in a similar place.. so indecisive, no idea what I want or if I want to just save 1500$ and get a windows computer. ALSO my work gave Windows 10 ultrabooks, I COULD just use that as my personal also... but the new macbooks... UGHHHH
I got a new Lenovo Ultrabook for my new job that I started right after ordering my MBP. While it's a nice computer, doesn't come close to the MBP.
I replaced and returned 5 MBP in 2013 and 2 iMac 5K in 2014.
I also had to replace my first MBP in 2009 because of a dead pixel. I almost forgot that one!
This is not a new thing for some of us
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Most complaints seem to come from preciously those people: 2014/2015 owners
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1st: Exchanged a 13" nTB for a 13" TB after 7 days of usage.
2nd: Exchanged 13" TB for 15" TB after 10 days usage.
And now I'm seriously contemplating exchanging my 15" MBP for another 13" TB MBP or even a Dell XPS 13.
With all my previous macs I was never this indecisive and previously never exchanged/returned one. But this time around I just can't figure out the ideal MBP. I much prefer the smaller footprint of the 13" while traveling but have also found the extra screen real estate useful on the 15", especially when working on large Excel documents.
However, I'm also realizing that I pretty much never utilize the discrete graphics on the 15". I'm also discovering that I'm almost always within 5-6.5GB RAM usage, making the 16GB in the 15" way overkill for me. So now I'm having buyers remorse, thinking that I shelled out an extra ~$700 over the 13" version for no reason, other than to have some extra screen space.
To make matters worse, while my wife was dress shopping today for an upcoming wedding, I spent about an hour in the Microsoft store testing out a Dell XPS 13 and getting the rundown from one of the sales reps. I haven't owned a Windows machine in about 12 years but I was actually very impressed with Windows 10 and felt that the XPS 13 was a fantastic machine. The worst part was that it was blatant just how much more snappy the XPS 13 was compared to all 3 of the 2016 MBP's I've now owned. It was quite disconcerting to discover this after having just dropped over $2,400 on the current 15" MBP. As much as I hate to admit it, today was an eye opener to me of just how far Windows has come. Add in the fact that for $1,400 I can get the Dell XPS 13 with the same specs as the mid-tear 13" MBP and I truly feel that my money is better spent on something other than an Apple machine for the first time in many years.
Needless to say, I'm all over the place.
I just wanted to provide an update since I know a couple of people quoted me saying they were in the same boat.
Today I decided to bite the bullet and purchase the Dell XPS 13 with the i7/8GB/256GB from my local Microsoft store. I spoke with the same salesperson as last time before purchasing it. He knows the details of my situation and recommended I go ahead and buy the machine and try it for a couple of weeks since they have a 30 day return policy with no open box charge.
When I first got it home and got it setup, I was very impressed. The screen is phenomenal and the size is just too perfect. The performance was buttery smooth even with 9 apps open and over 7GB ram used. Everything was going great... at first.
The next big test was taking it into my home office to test it where I'll be using it the most, with an external monitor and external keyboard/mouse. This is where things really went downhill. The first noticeable issue is that the wireless signal dropped from full bars down to one bar. When I ran speedtest I was getting just 10mbps down and 5mbps up. For reference, in the exact same spot my Macbook Pro has full bars and gets 75mbps down and 45mbps up. Hell, even my Google Pixel gets upwards of 50mbps down in that room. Needless to say, the wifi strength on the Dell XPS 13 is garbage, even though they keep touting that it is much improved over the previous generation.
Honestly, the wifi strength problem would have been reason enough to give up on the computer. However, I decided to keep on going...
The second issue was getting the computer to work properly with my 34" Dell curved monitor. First off, it took me over 30 minutes just to get the Dell laptop to recognize my Dell monitor, which I found both annoying and funny. Once I finally got everything working with the external monitor the computer's performance plummeted. Excel crashed 3 times during simple copy/paste tasks, both the Chrome and Edge browsers started getting very laggy/jumpy, and even the start menu failed to open until I clicked on the Windows icon like 6 times.
Rebooting the computer didn't solve the issue and I had to manually re-detect the external monitor after the reboot, which is just silly. As soon as I disconnected the laptop from the monitor the computer performed just fine again. But at this point I was so fed up with messing with it that I just shut it down and threw it right back in the box it came out of. I promptly grabbed my Macbook Pro and headed to the living room to grab a beer and come here to write this.
The second I sat down and opened the MBP I breathed a HUGE sigh of relief. After using the XPS 13 for a solid 6 hours and then jumping back into the MBP, it's immediately noticeable just how much better theMBP is. The slim unibody build, the keyboard, the user interface... everything about the MBP is simply better. Plus, knowing that the MBP works flawlessly in my office with my external monitor and great wifi connection, I can't help but just laugh at the XPS 13. In fact, where I previously thought $1400 sounded like a great price, in comparison with what I paid for the MBP, now I don't think the XPS 13 is worth a penny more than $800.
I truly believed I'd spend a few days with the Dell and get swayed into loving it. Especially for the price point. But all today did was make me realize just how great this MBP truly is. My experience ended up reenforcing the value the MBP provides, even at the much higher price point. I wanted to find the Dell to be a great option, but that's not the case. It will be getting returned tomorrow.
My build to order 2.9ghz 16gb 1TB 460 4GB VRAM came with ridiculous blemishes everywhere
In the speaker grill holes, faded coating under the right speaker grill. It also glitches a lot, the scream would look washed out from time to time, the mouse would often disappear, Touch ID wouldn't work etc. Just two days new, back to the store for a full refund. Fun.
Quality control, Quality control, Quality control dear Apple - grrrrrrrrrr, how can they let something so disgusting off the assembly line, for frick sakes, it's a build to order for crying out loud !
I'm def waiting till Sept or next Feb 2018 to get one of these.
Also the keyboard is really annoyingly LOUD ! Darn it, because the first gen butterfly mechanism keyboards were so fly - grrrrrrr...
Also, I couldn't stand looking at the "MacBook Pro" moniker starting back at me under the bezel, that dreadful plastic bar and that "in your face" branding screams tasteless all over it. Grrrrrrrr !
HAHAHA !!!
That's all. ^_^
I love you all !
![image.jpeg]( "image.jpeg")
![image.jpeg]( "image.jpeg")
In the speaker grill holes, faded coating under the right speaker grill. It also glitches a lot, the scream would look washed out from time to time, the mouse would often disappear, Touch ID wouldn't work etc. Just two days new, back to the store for a full refund. Fun.
Quality control, Quality control, Quality control dear Apple - grrrrrrrrrr, how can they let something so disgusting off the assembly line, for frick sakes, it's a build to order for crying out loud !
I'm def waiting till Sept or next Feb 2018 to get one of these.
Also the keyboard is really annoyingly LOUD ! Darn it, because the first gen butterfly mechanism keyboards were so fly - grrrrrrr...
Also, I couldn't stand looking at the "MacBook Pro" moniker starting back at me under the bezel, that dreadful plastic bar and that "in your face" branding screams tasteless all over it. Grrrrrrrr !
HAHAHA !!!
That's all. ^_^
I love you all !