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cirus

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2011
582
0
So you still think that Jobs had no idea what was going on until it was released.
He seems very into apple and I find it hard to believe that it was never demonstrated to him and he found out after the fact.

True, he is not an engineer but he still would have been there when the tested the beta versions, played around on the software to check it out.
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
At last. I have found the answer. It was hidden, among stars, among a thousand million galaxies that folded in on themselves. It was born in a cataclysm of sound and light.

He knew the truth all along. He saw it happen. Decades ago. First in India. Then in The Valley.

Xerox. IBM. Microsoft. He had them all in the palm of his hand, and they didn't even know it. In their supreme arrogance they were shown the tool of their destruction and ignored it.

Steve Jobs is . . .

durandal.gif


If MobileMe syncing isn't working at the moment, it's because Steve is laughing so hard.
 

saving107

macrumors 603
Oct 14, 2007
6,384
33
San Jose, Ca
I love MobileMe and it works just fine. People are idiots.

I agree here. People either expect too much or don't understand what it's supposed to do, and it does that great.

The original article is not talking about the MobileMe of today, its talking about the MobileMe of 2008 and when it was first released. If you weren't around then, here is a flashback:

MobileMe Finally Online? [No]

After a full day of ups and downs, it appears that Apple has finally gotten their new MobileMe (Me.com) service online. The service was expected to launch around 2am Pacific Time on Thursday morning, but actually first came online at around 4am PT.

Since then, the service has been alternating between being online and offline amidst what appeared to be heavy traffic with slow load times. Regardless of the problem, the online service is now up and running.

Update: We unlinked the site because it wasn't working. We'll post an update when it appears to be up again.
https://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/10/mobileme-finally-online/

This behavior of Ups and Downs continued for several weeks.

Other Headlines from 2008
MobileMe: “Push” not so instant after all?
Apple Sends Another MobileMe Apology E-mail and Extension
Extended MobileMe Email Outage Due To Server Issue
 

blue22

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2010
505
18
I think you're hating on SJ just to hate...

Ah, to the contrary. Typically this may apply to most CEO's, however Jobs is heavily involved in Apple's projects. This is ascertained by another verified practice: Jobs intentionally keeps a small employee base. Apple hires employees who are capable of working in a myriad of departments in order to move employees as needed. For example, during the release of OS X 10.5 Leopard that coincided with the release of the iPhone in 2007, instead of hiring more staff Jobs moved developers from the OS X team to the iPhone team. This resulted in a delay of OS X 10.5 from the Summer to October. Managing a small employee base for a large company allows Jobs to personally know almost every employee's capabilities and to micromanage his projects. Jobs has worked with one lead industrial designer, Jonny Ive, for more than a decade. Jobs needs to have control over his projects, reputation, employee base and life.

Question: if it's YOUR company then why wouldn't you want to field a manageable sized team that you can trust and rely on for seeing through your vision of the company? Seems to me he has a winning formula down for Apple, so why tamper with it's success?



Wow, I have to admit, that is very interesting when analyzed objectively. ... Do not confuse Jobs' ideas with his treatment of his employees as a measure of Apple's success. He is a visionary and a perfectionist who micromanages a large corporation, it is not the treatment of his employees that has lead Apple to succeed.

Although I do very much agree with you that micromanagement is not a good thing overall, there still is a difference between doing that and holding your staff (and project leaders in particular) accountable for delivering on their goal-orientated tasks. You don't become the best accepting mediocre results. Period.



It's tantamount to Stockholm Syndrome. ... Excusing Jobs' behavior because we like Apple products and dismissing those who take issue as whiners and freeloaders is baffling. ... Negative reinforcement may work initially but soon the hamster in the wheel realizes the reality of their situation and removes themselves from the equation, either dissociatively or otherwise.

See, I just think you're over-reaching here in your generalized (and somewhat provocative) assessments, then you go into preachy-mode about "best practices" of the work environment, while at the same time (unintentionally I assume) marginalize the employee "victim" as some meaningless "hamster" in the final equation. C'mon now, get off it, are you just trying to stir to pot here?

Also, I think you're taking one article's review of an incident at Apple and falsely assuming they have some toxic working environment there. Yes, we all know about SJ's infamous fuse when things aren't living up to his expectations, but how is it a poor leadership style to hold your staff accountable for their work & effort?

I can't imagine if the conditions at Apple are so bad like you're suggesting, then where are all of these miserable, under appreciated, and formerly abused ex-Apple employees speaking out at? Why are they not creating any noise to pull the clothes off the "sham" that is Apple's success?!

Exactly.

Listen, there is no perfect model for motivating your staff without hurting someone's feelings from time to time when you conduct a performance review. However, the key thing is that the culture of any work environment shouldn't facilitate and tolerate purposefully demeaning behavior by management while they assess their staff's productivity. And last time I checked, based on my limited insight into how Apple is operated as a company, everyone seems to be a satisfied employee/#winner there more or less.



Apple has broken the norm mostly due to its "cult" work atmosphere; it's hard to hate something when you're told to love it.

See, now I know you're just trying to stir the pot. :cool:

Have you worked at Apple to know the conditions there first hand? Have you interviewed anyone that works there to gauge their thoughts/feelings on their employment experiences with Apple? Have you talked to any ex-employees of Apple and taken in considerations their own personal goals and and agendas related to their departure/termination from Apple? Don't claim to be objective when you're accusing Apple/SJ of cultivating "Stockholm Syndrome" with it's employees, and your basis of analysis is seemingly coming from just a bunch of publicly distributed reports about what a demanding CEO Steve Jobs can be (whether rightfully or not) as that is not enough information to make that strong statement on.

Personally, I could care less if SJ is a d*** in the office, the fact is it's his company and if you aren't up to snuff as his employee, to participate in the environment and culture that he created there, then you're gone or you just move on. With that said, I'm not advocating whatsoever abusive relationships in the workplace, but at the same time if the man has to light a fire under people's butts to help motivate them to get the job done then I don't see what the problem is with that; nor do I see it as a reason to demonize him for it.
 

Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,828
964
Los Angeles
Anybody Surprised?

It's this "perfectionism," and willingness to immediately discipline those responsible for a misstep, that is the main reason for Apple's incredible decade-long climb. Notice: the executives disappear, and I got three free months of Mobile Me. That's Apple.

Now, I sure hope they get this cloud stuff right this time.
 

ipoppy

macrumors 6502
Oct 12, 2006
423
9
UK
It's been three years and MobileMe isn't much better. I still miss being able to access bookmarks remotely, a feature that was dropped when MobileMe was introduced.

Most annoying is overcharge for iDisk storage and slow download from their servers which usually end up with error-code anyway.
Very unprofessional like for Apple. Let see that new Mobile me service then Steve boy.
 

ryanwarsaw

macrumors 68030
Apr 7, 2007
2,746
2,441
Yes, he does take the heat. However, there are better ways of going about it... you don't *degrade* your employees. You'll loose them.

Grow up? No.. I've worked for long enough to know what you do and don't do to your employees. Sure, you don't wrap them up in cotton wool.... of course not.. but you don't go for the other extreme as well. You find out what went wrong and handle it *maturely* without lashing out. A *good* company will *learn* from its mistakes... Lashing out / degrading employees shows the culture of a company.

Also a good manager will take the heat and appropriately manage their employees.

Not sure if it has been said already but it doesn't seem like Apple has a shortage of people wanting to work for them.
 

Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,828
964
Los Angeles
So you still think that Jobs had no idea what was going on until it was released.
He seems very into apple and I find it hard to believe that it was never demonstrated to him and he found out after the fact.

True, he is not an engineer but he still would have been there when the tested the beta versions, played around on the software to check it out.

Almost by definition, you can't demonstrate a service like MobileMe until it's under full load. It wasn't under full load until everyone jumped on. Then it crashed hard and stayed that way for a few days. It was a huge embarrassment to the Apple brand.

The screw-ups I've seen before all have the engineers saying everything's cool until it isn't. What if Jobs was an engineer? Would he have gone through miles of code? He lets engineers he thinks are competent run things. If they screw up, they're gone. Note, this does not happen in cases like the Apple guy who left the iPhone 4 in the bar. But engineers said it was cool, and then it turned into an embarrassing mess.
 

Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,828
964
Los Angeles
If the employees can't take it then they can quit on the spot and find another job. Simple as that.

And what was "degrading" about what he reportedly said? This is what it's supposed to do, and then why the **** doesn't it do it? That's just a good question. Eddy Cue took it over, I think. It started working quickly after that.
 

ryanwarsaw

macrumors 68030
Apr 7, 2007
2,746
2,441
Apple aims for perfect execution. The MobileMe launch, while it didn't affect me personally, was a disaster on several levels. I'm honestly surprised that Steve didn't just kill it altogether. I guess it was one direction where he felt the company had to go because its the direction that the world is going... to the cloud. As great as many of the MobileMe services are (I've been a paying customer for 10 years), I still can't find myself using the online services that much. A pretty interface doesn't cut it for me. I need to see innovation and fixing iDisk is one thing they NEED to do for that part of the service to be useful for me.

It seems like Steve has some vision for MM and won't give up on it. The data center in NC and the icloud name acquisition both point to this. I have no idea what Steve has in mind but I can almost guarantee that Apple didn't invest billions on this for something small.

It seems to me Steve was pissed because of how terribly short of his expectations MM fell and is now trying to fix it. Not that I profess to know what Steve thinks but this is my guess.
 

fifthworld

macrumors 6502
Oct 22, 2008
268
5
Since Jobs makes it a point in being directly involved in every project, he is micromanaging. If the .Mac relaunch to MobileMe was such an important project, where is Jobs' accountability?

LOL. How do you call a CEO naming new executives on the spot to substitute the ones that have failed to deliver the project according to set standards and performances?
 

unlinked

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2010
698
1,217
Ireland
LOL. How do you call a CEO naming new executives on the spot to substitute the ones that have failed to deliver the project according to set standards and performances?

I think he was probably talking about Mr Jobs holding himself accountable for the failure.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,770
10,892
I think he was probably talking about Mr Jobs holding himself accountable for the failure.

Exactly what I [failed] to try to state. Again, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding :eek:

What does that even mean? Hold himself accountable? What makes you think he didn't hold himself accountable for the decisions he made? Were you looking for excerpts from the conversation where he yelled at himself? :confused:
 

Atkins

macrumors 6502
May 14, 2010
291
0
Tokyo
I am a bit disappointed in many of the comments that justify the treatment of others by an almost totalitarian state while dismissing those who take issue as "whiners."
And I am even more disappointed when people use such bad comparisons.

He is a visionary and a perfectionist who micromanages a large corporation, it is not the treatment of his employees that has lead Apple to succeed.
Getting the best out of yourself is rarely a good experience. It is going beyond your limits, which is almost impossible to achieve with the carrot. But there's always the satisfaction of the job well done. And for those who can't stand it, they can leave.

I studied Industrial Organizational Psychology at Columbia. I was onto my PhD, but later backed out as I do not have a taste for the corporate world. Most understand that performance under extreme stress and duress results in poorly managed projects and health/mental issues.
Please, do not get get this wrong. But school is school and real life is, well, real life. It obviously works well for Apple.

It's tantamount to Stockholm Syndrome. The abused developments a bond with the abuser, and slowly becomes an unknowing captive. Excusing Jobs' behavior because we like Apple products and dismissing those who take issue as whiners and freeloaders is baffling.
What is baffling is how yelling at people that didn't get the job done gets us to the "Stockholm Syndrome". Again strong words and bad comparison.

Others may not, but that doesn't mean they are whiners or wimps. What the h3ll happened to compassion and humanity?
OMG! One would think we are commenting on an article about Lybia!

Love your job and work hard. Excessive stress and a toxic environment almost never results in a productive company.
Agreed. But you are extrapolating the anecdotes above way too far, where obviously these were extreme situations.
 

cvaldes

macrumors 68040
Dec 14, 2006
3,237
0
somewhere else
LOL. How do you call a CEO naming new executives on the spot to substitute the ones that have failed to deliver the project according to set standards and performances?
Correct.

Jobs sent a message by reassigning the MobileMe team to report directly to Eddy Cue, the iTunes Store head after the bungled 2008 MobileMe launch.

Cue has an excellent reputation for running reliable services. Basically Jobs said, "you will make MobileMe as reliable as the iTunes Store."
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,770
10,892
This I will defend myself against. You are exaggerating and misinterpretting a basic principle. As the CEO of the company, he also has a duty to maintain and manage his divisions. As it has been clearly stated, MobileMe was a top priority to Jobs. Thus, why did he not take responsibility for being more on top of his team and simply blame everyone else involved and even replaced management on the spot? Everyone is accountable, and as it has been clearified, Jobs is always involved in every detail. So what happened? One day he checked in on the project and it was going smoothly, and BAM, the next day everyone screwed up? No, there is always a chain of command, and as you stated it is his company, there is plenty of blame to go around but blaming an entire department for a major relaunch of a project of utmost importance to his company,

I didn't exaggerate or misinterpret. You are misunderstanding the specifics of the situation. This wasn't an iPod or an iPhone release where Jobs could test the device himself to insure that it functioned as intended. The problem in the specific instance was a scalability issue. It wasn't a problem with the concept. The service worked as expected until release. The problem was an engineering issue that wasn't evident until mass release. It was a problem for engineers to plan for and solve. Not a CEO.

Jobs needs to take some accountability in the failures.

"Having conversations where he yelled at himself"? Thanks, I appreciate the insult.

How was that an insult to you? I asked a question. What makes you think Jobs didn't hold himelf accountable for any mistakes he made? What evidence of that accountability did you expect? The "yelling at himself" comment was just to illustrate that any evidence of his own accountability would be hard to come by. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.
 

badmac78

macrumors 6502
Jan 15, 2008
250
0
Atlanta
Maybe people think companies run themselves or there is some dark group of 3 that approves all decisions. Public companies are usually run by 1 CEO and usually that CEO has the final say in pretty much everything regarding that company. The fact that people find Steve's behavior odd or out of step with a publicly traded company I find more interesting. I guess people are concerned about Steve calling the team into the "principles office" and how he talked to them. Please note that the first thing mentioned in the article is that he told them "they should hate each other for letting each other down". That to me is a leader trying to instill a since of pride into people about their own work. Now if something didn't work because they felt they couldn't tell Steve "no", that's a whole different discussion. A launch of any product is important as a company. We trash Google and Sprint and everyone else. What do you think a CEO should have said? Some companies take years to replace poor leaders. I applaud Steve for replacing them on the spot. It let's the team know he is serious about success. Apple didn't get to where it is with a bunch of mediocre products.
 
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