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Surface Studio discussion
- Thread starter Macmamamac
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And if you read the history, Apple ended up paying Xerox about $40000 to license the mouse. People keep saying Apple stole the mouse but in reality Apple paid for the rights.
You guys are just incredible.
![29zwu1g.jpg]()
![2zszfie.png]()
Just look at these keyboards how is Microsoft's not a cheap (presumably plastic) knock off?? How. Amazing.
PC keyboards used to look like this until Microsoft and whoever else got smart and caught on
Those both look similar because they are both chiclet keyboards, but so would other chiclet keyboards.
Sony has been putting chiclet keyboards on its VAIO laptops since 2004, so they are hardly new.
Maybe one day you will understand it was Apple that popularized them.
Yes I am on the side of Apple because I use them
I have to chime in here as I am reading a lot of opinions, and always good to put another in the mix.
All companies / designers are inspired by or copy other designs. It is the way it is. There is very rarely an original piece of design, but one that combines other ideas or is heavily influenced to generate its own new language.
In my opinion [as a professional designer] the Studio does not copy the imac in many ways. There may be influence, but it is a developed design based upon solving the issue of using a touch / stylus screen in a comfortable way, allowing it to function for certain professionals.
Elements like chick let keys and the such may have been developed first by one company but its fine to develop your own style of keyboard off this invention. Its like saying you can't have a bluetooth mouse as another company made one first.
As a choice for someone like myself, the Studio is very compelling as is the imac. My preference is MacOS and will mean I will probably get the new imac when it comes out, however I will be having a hard look at the Studio. The use of Windows is a non-issue for me.
I think it is fantastic that Microsoft are releasing original [influenced], well made hardware these days together with a solid [and I personally think attractive] operating system. Hopefully this will provide Apple the encouragement it needs to maintain innovation and compete.
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Its a generic term.
Creative: pretty much anything that's not office productivity, gaming or consuming media.
Professional: can mean anything from "gets paid for it" to "member of a learned association" but usually "at least 50% more expensive than the entry level model".
Why not? Its probably one of the favourite choices. The only clear-cut advantage of the Surface is the stylus, so in that case you'd be comparing the Surface with iMac + a decent graphics tablet.
Look at this: http://www.apple.com/uk/final-cut-pro/
...now explain why the screens on that page, which are all at least 1/3 full of timelines and control palettes need to be the same ratio as the video. I'm not a pro video editor, but I've worked with them frequently and they've typically used a separate TV for previewing edited clips at the exact target resolution, aspect and frame rate.
As I said, its the Surface Studio's lack of high-speed I/O and so-so GPU and CPU that limit its usefulness for video (I'm not sure how much you could do with just USB 3.0) - but then the iMac isn't exactly over-endowed in the GPU department, either: the Mac Pro is Apple's purpose-designed FCPx appliance.
Er... no, those are two totally unrelated items with completely different functionality.
The iMac and the Surface Studio are both all-in-one general purpose computers with broadly rather similar technical specs. You're actually being very narrow minded and insisting that the Surface's "easel mode" party trick will only ever be useful for freehand drawing.
Apple's "we can do no wrong" hubris has become stupidly stubborn and narcissistic. They'll take one look at "Surface Studio" and say "*Scoff*, Microsoft beat us to touchscreen nirvana and out-innovated us and are running circles around us? Then we'll show them by refusing to ever adopt touchscreens. And we'll claim touchscreens suck! That'll show the world that Apple knows best! We are sooooo great!". Because I've noticed that Apple's narcissism refuses to ever admit to playing catch-up, so they resort to slagging off everyone else instead, and doubling down on their own antiquated technology. Sigh. Surface Studio is everything that Apple should be doing on the desktop. This is [year], we should be living in The Matrix and having Minority Report by now.
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Microsoft Surface Dial ads show the wonders you can create
![surface-dial-800x420.png]()
As fascinating as the Surface Studio might be, without one particular optional accessory, it’s really just a gigantic, but well endowed, Surface tablet. Microsoft all-in-one computer’s spellbinding appeal is thanks partly to the Surface Pen but probably more importantly thanks to the odd but fancy Surface Dial remote control. And to hammer down on how game changing this little puck can be, Microsoft has released not one, not even two or three, but five ads that show how, with the right app mixed with the right tool, great things can happen.
When Microsoft unveiled the Surface Dial, one of the first apps it demoed was Sketchable. This third-party painting app made by a small startup exploded in popularity in the Windows Store, especially for the Surface Pro tablets, making it the perfect poster boy for the new device. In Sketchable, the Surface Dial takes on the role of a precision instrument, allowing artists to pick colors, select brush sizes, and rotate the canvas in a way that’s more precise than using touch but feels more natural than entering hard numbers.
Drawboard was another app that was showcased early on. Unlike Sketchable, Drawboard is more of a document editing and annotation app. That doesn’t mean, however, that it won’t have use for the Surface Dial. Particularly interesting is how its developers have taken advantage of the accessory’s round nature and turned it into a digital protractor.
Some within the same subject is Bluebeam, which is an engineering and architecture program. The interesting bit here is how the Dial becomes a sort of magnifying glass. When placed on the screen, its splits the view of the current document and where the Dial is place on one side will show zoomed up on the other side.
Mental Canvas takes the Surface Dial from 2D into the realm of 3D. While the Dial also functions like on Sketchable, allowing users to select colors and brush sizes at the twist of the, well, dial, it also has another function specific to Mental Canvas. In particular, it allows users to fly through the app’s unique 3D-esque space.
And if you thought that the Surface Dial makes sense only to visual creatives, StaffPad would prove you wrong. The music writing apps has already been featured before in Microsoft’s Surface Pro marketing, and here it’s back for the Surface Dial. As the app has no need for colors and brushes, the Dial takes on a different duty in StaffPad, aside from interface navigation and playback controls. Amusingly, it functions like a rubber, cloning notes and measures from one place to another.
While the Surface Studio itself won’t be available until next year, or late this year at the earliest, the Surface Dial will become available first. That’s because the rotary control can also be used by itself as a Bluetooth remote. That said, its magic really happens when you place it on a screen, but only the Surface Studio and, through a firmware update, the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book, are supported.
As fascinating as the Surface Studio might be, without one particular optional accessory, it’s really just a gigantic, but well endowed, Surface tablet. Microsoft all-in-one computer’s spellbinding appeal is thanks partly to the Surface Pen but probably more importantly thanks to the odd but fancy Surface Dial remote control. And to hammer down on how game changing this little puck can be, Microsoft has released not one, not even two or three, but five ads that show how, with the right app mixed with the right tool, great things can happen.
When Microsoft unveiled the Surface Dial, one of the first apps it demoed was Sketchable. This third-party painting app made by a small startup exploded in popularity in the Windows Store, especially for the Surface Pro tablets, making it the perfect poster boy for the new device. In Sketchable, the Surface Dial takes on the role of a precision instrument, allowing artists to pick colors, select brush sizes, and rotate the canvas in a way that’s more precise than using touch but feels more natural than entering hard numbers.
Drawboard was another app that was showcased early on. Unlike Sketchable, Drawboard is more of a document editing and annotation app. That doesn’t mean, however, that it won’t have use for the Surface Dial. Particularly interesting is how its developers have taken advantage of the accessory’s round nature and turned it into a digital protractor.
Some within the same subject is Bluebeam, which is an engineering and architecture program. The interesting bit here is how the Dial becomes a sort of magnifying glass. When placed on the screen, its splits the view of the current document and where the Dial is place on one side will show zoomed up on the other side.
Mental Canvas takes the Surface Dial from 2D into the realm of 3D. While the Dial also functions like on Sketchable, allowing users to select colors and brush sizes at the twist of the, well, dial, it also has another function specific to Mental Canvas. In particular, it allows users to fly through the app’s unique 3D-esque space.
And if you thought that the Surface Dial makes sense only to visual creatives, StaffPad would prove you wrong. The music writing apps has already been featured before in Microsoft’s Surface Pro marketing, and here it’s back for the Surface Dial. As the app has no need for colors and brushes, the Dial takes on a different duty in StaffPad, aside from interface navigation and playback controls. Amusingly, it functions like a rubber, cloning notes and measures from one place to another.
While the Surface Studio itself won’t be available until next year, or late this year at the earliest, the Surface Dial will become available first. That’s because the rotary control can also be used by itself as a Bluetooth remote. That said, its magic really happens when you place it on a screen, but only the Surface Studio and, through a firmware update, the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book, are supported.
I understand your points but I think our difference in opinions are illustrated when you say "The iMac and the Surface Studio are both all-in-one general purpose computers with broadly rather similar technical specs."
That is what I disagree with, sure they are both all-in-one computers but aside of aesthetics that is relatively meaningless. The things that make them different, namely a waccom digitizer (or something similar?) and 5k display is what sets them apart.
I wouldn't consider the surface studio general purpose, matter of fact I would say it has a very specific purpose and it's price tag is highly reflective of that. Why would one buy an all-in-one PC at that price if you have no need for that specific purpose (using that digitizer for drawing)? You can get a much higher spec'd AIO PC with a touch screen at a cheaper price, which I also think would be a better comparison to the iMac.
I don't think you are "wrong" I just can't see that as an iMac replacement even if it can do everything the iMac can do (for the most part). I would expect the Surface Studio to arouse interest from those utilizing an iPad Pro before an iMac.
My opinion might be different if the price tag was cheaper and the cost of the digitizer was negligible. This is where I feel the 5k iMac excels, a 5k display is very expensive however considering their is a computer also built into the 5k iMac it's cost "reasonable" and the overall the price is justifiable even if you have no need for a 5k display.
I don't see the display as a big distinction: 4500x3000 plays 5120x2880 - they're both firmly in the "better than so-called '4k' UHD" class, and the Studio's 3:2 ratio is a refreshing change from 16:9 (I don't think that ever made sense as a computer display ratio - even for editing video as I've explained earlier - it was just economical to use the same aspect ratio as mass-market TV screens)
As for the digitiser/touch screen and "easel mode", I think it might have possibilities beyond the freehand drawing niche you've confined it to.
Price-wise, there's no denying that the Studio is eye-wateringly expensive - personally, I'm waiting until they actually start shipping to see what the actual street prices are going to be (by which time Apple may have updated the iMac and, the way things are going, jacked up the price of that). Also, for the real reviews, teardowns and benchmarks (MS are annoyingly sketchy about what the actual processor models and speeds are) so we know which iMac models to compare with. I haven't seen anything on upgradeability, either: I suspect that its sealed up like a Mac (since Microsoft seem to be channeling Apple right now) if it turns out you can upgrade the HD without pizza-cutters and double-sided tape then that's worth money over the iMac.
I'm sure MS are looking at how the new MacBooks fare: if customers are willing to pay higher prices for what boils down to this-year's CPUs, a few mms of slimming and a bit of bling, then what will they pay for actual not-seen-before features?
...you can make a similar argument about the Studio's digitiser: a 27" Wacom Cintiq costs about 2 grand. I'm sure lots of people here would love one but can't justify it. Having the equivalent "built in" to a $3k computer might widen the appeal.
Dealbreaker on the Studio for me, though is the lack of high-speed I/O - a problem for future-proofing. Silly: the MacBooks have too much TB3, the Surface range too little.
The iMac is cheaper and runs macOS. It have a weaker graphics card in some models, compared to the 965m.
I think it's a cool product but it's only an obvious iMac replacement for a small portion of users. The only real advantages over the iMac, compared to the upcoming 2017 model, is the touch/pen functionality and the diplay movement that comes with that.
I think it's a cool product but it's only an obvious iMac replacement for a small portion of users. The only real advantages over the iMac, compared to the upcoming 2017 model, is the touch/pen functionality and the diplay movement that comes with that.
People tend to be very clever in finding ways to use new tools.
I suspect that those who are not artists nor architects will find creative uses of the digitizer/pen to do things that we haven't thought of.
The Surface Studio is definitely expensive, but probably not overprice considering the research and development cost.
That said, I do think that Microsoft will lower the prices in the future to make it more attainable.
There's so much more to touchscreens than drawing.
I am going to give Apple 2-3 years to catch up to Microsoft's touchscreens. If not, I am moving to Windows. Not worth being held back due to Apple being narcissistic and stubborn with their "we weren't the first with a modern touchscreen computer? then we'll shun the idea and trash-talk it!". They really need to get over themselves and just install a damn multitouch screen.
Here's what I need a touchscreen for, as a musician:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/thoughts-about-the-macbook-pro-2016.2013093/page-2
And my kids would love it for multitouch games.
That's what I have been saying.
The people who look at PCs like the Surface Studio and think "Oh, that's only good for drawing" are so shortsighted.
Apple has painted itself into a corner by convincing itself that touch/pen wouldn't work on the Mac.
Steve Jobs would have said, "I don't care! Make it work!"
This hits it on the nail unfortunately.
Agreed, I think they're failing to see that competitors are leap frogging them in terms of design, components and innovation.
I think they were also surprised by the amount of negativity regarding the MBP launch and Touch Bar. Their core base, like myself have been vocal about what design choices they did employ.
I buy a new iMac 5K every year just to get the new specs, but if the 2017 model is the same form factor with the same touch-enabled features and runs $500-1000 more than the current 5K, I'd pass because I don't need those features.
The Studio is a great device for artists, but not all Mac users are artists. Probably the vast majority are not. So I don't see Apple launching a copy / clone / "inspired by" model as I expect it would not be very successful and by extension would likely tank iMac sales if it was the replacement for that family. And considering the iMac is the only Mac desktop that seems to sell in enough volume to warrant paying any attention to it...
Personally I think Microsoft made a good choice to release the Surface Studio because it looks to offer a better experience for Windows users than the Cintiq at a similar (or better) price (when you throw in the price of the PC the Cintiq needs).
But I expect not a lot of Windows users are artists, either, so I don't see Microsoft shipping tens of thousands of these, much less hundreds of thousands or millions. I see it as a "Halo" project for MS much like the Bugatti Veyron was a "halo" project for the Volkswagon Group - lost a mint on each one, but you sell few enough of them the loss isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things and it gets people excited about the rest of your line-up (in Microsoft's case, Windows 10 licenses on other folk's PCs). Heck, the entire Surface family probably fills that role considering how few MS sells.
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Probably.
Hardly even heard of a surface until this thread. There is a surprising number of Microsoft lovers, and fanboys/ girls on this forum!
Never expected to see the Microsoft lover boy brigade on the Mac forum.
"It's only great for artists" is probably the shortsighted thinking happening in Cupertino right now.
Lately, Apple has been rehashing products with different sizes and different colors.
You can't blame the users for trying something new.
Considering all the artists (and other "pros") complaining in these forums, one wonders if that is the case...
no, I think the new colours are an overall positive thing, I imagine Apple purists like myself will just go with the classic silver and so forth but I imagine the new people will like the gold and what not.
So I wouldn't say it's a bad thing.
Apple just needs to understand that appearance isn't a substitute for performance. Those are two unrelated (but important) categories.