Tim Cook and Samsung CEO Choi Gee-sung Meeting Today to Discuss Patent Issues

[kolax]

It's a catch-22 with patents.

You want to protect your IP to stop people using your innovations to make them money, but then your IP isn't always rightfully yours, and some IP is questionable as to whether it should have been awarded in the first place.

For the sake of technology evolution, when Apple released the iPhone, they "revolutionised the industry" so of course people were going to copy it. As great as the iPhone was when it came out and the impact it has had, from a technology evolution point of view, if no one were allowed to copy it, then we'd advance so slowly that Apple might even suffer - if they can keep a cap on the competition what drives them to keep innovating?

 

[Thex1138]

BOOOOM! That's what thermonuclear means!

 

[Jynto]

I Agree to the fact that only reason samsung came out better in the whole Android sea of devices was that their Whole look of the phone was almost similar to iPhone at half the cost. Which obviusoly made the samsung the next best thing after Apple iphone. People who coulodn't reach to iphone ended up buying mirage reflection of it. There is no other reason why no other device came up to sell so many as Samsung, considering all the high end android phone almost had (and still have, go check..) same spec and same size of the screesn and same OS (with Samsung using iPhone UI)
It felt they are buying a piece of iphone.
I cant believe how blatantly they copy apple, in every aspect. Look at samsung stores, thier device presentation in the shop, now lately thier Samsung's unvealing of Galaxy s3...

Speaking as the owner of a Galaxy S, I can say that your argument is half true. I did choose it was because I thought it was a copy of the iPhone. But I've since realized that it's different in many ways, and there are advantages and disadvantages of each.

The iPhone is easier to use. It crashes less often. It is better integrated with other Apple products and has a larger app store. iPhone apps are cheaper, and most of them are consistent with Apple's design aesthetic.

Android, on the other hand, can do more advanced features, but requires more tinkering. I often boast about the removable battery to my iPhone-owning friends. And it's open-source. It's a playground for obsessive tinkerers. It fills niches the the iPhone simply can't.

It's no coincidence that the most popular Android device is the one that's most similar to an iPhone. I don't deny that Samsung owe a lot of their success to Apple. But Apple did not get there alone either. They certainly did not invent the smartphone, or the touchscreen. They weren't even the first to combine the two. Every new piece of technology is built on the shoulders of earlier breakthroughs, dating back to the discovery of fire. Watch Everything Is A Remix if you're still undecided.

 

[Ironduke]

they should play beer pong over the patents

 

[Habakuk]

Android, on the other hand, can do more advanced features

Are you kidding? Where is AudioCopy, WIST (audio sync between synthesizer apps on multiple devices), wireless MIDI, AirPlay, almost zero latency for instruments input (supports live and stage performance), sound quality, racer games with bluetooth sync (you can even implement a Mac in a race via WiFi) for local multiplayer? Game Center? iCloud? Easy OS and app updates? Just for naming a few advanced features.

Especially for audio and video production and gaming iOS is FAR more advanced compared to Android… The same goes for photo manipulation and sharing. YEARS ahead.

 

[alexande]

Great, this is the best way to solve the issues.

 

[thekev]

Hold strong Tim!

Man, I'd love a live stream of this chat.

It might be way more boring than you'd hope. These kinds of talks don't necessarily contain a lot of chest beating. They discuss what needs to be discussed. Hopefully something comes out of it. It's actually better if these conversations are kept private so that neither side has to put on a show.

Have you forgotten about this already? Samsung's Market Cap Takes $10 Billion Hit Amid Rumors of Apple DRAM Deal with Elpida. It's glaringly obvious who needs who here.

You say this as if you believe you have a point. They've maintained the contracts to this point for a reason. They've got an excellent track record on manufacturing certain commodity parts.

 

[ixodes]

I bet Tim Cook will be very happy once he cleans up Steve Jobs messes.

More of a practical, thinking man who's not vindictive, he'll smooth things out & Apple will make even more money.

Expending all the negative, spiteful angry time that Jobs did, costs far more than just legal fees and time to scheme.

Once free of this nonsense, Cook will be free to do the many things he does best.

 

[BvizioN]

Android had it from the start and the one for the iphone was user made.

You mean the android that was born after the iPhone?
Because the one before did not have it, as it did not have so many other things that magicaly apeared after the iPhone.

 

[Sensation]

BOOOOM! That's what thermonuclear means!

Samsung becoming the biggest phone manufacture?

----------

Are you kidding? Where is AudioCopy, WIST (audio sync between synthesizer apps on multiple devices), wireless MIDI, AirPlay, almost zero latency for instruments input (supports live and stage performance), sound quality, racer games with bluetooth sync (you can even implement a Mac in a race via WiFi) for local multiplayer? Game Center? iCloud? Easy OS and app updates? Just for naming a few advanced features.

Especially for audio and video production and gaming iOS is FAR more advanced compared to Android… The same goes for photo manipulation and sharing. YEARS ahead.

Airplay is not required because Android supports DNLA, A format used in other things beside apple products.
You can use bluetooth controllers with Android phones such as the PS3 controller.
Ive always had excellent sound quality from my HTC phones with beats audio.
Game Center - Open Feint cross platform much better
icloud - most of the features of this have been in Android since day 1.
Easy os updates- again Android has had OTA updates since day 1
App updates can be set to be carried out automatically.
I ignored your other points because Ive never tried these things a few quick searches pulls up this though

 

[the8thark]

Don't settle, if someone "steals-copy" then fight for your right.

"Good artists copy, and great artists steal"
Remember??

 

[Habakuk]

Airplay is not required because Android supports DNLA, A format used in other things beside apple products.

My third-party wireless speakers never heard about DNLA but they support rock-solid AirPlay.

You can use bluetooth controllers with Android phones such as the PS3 controller.

I didn't talk about controllers (the posting that I replied was about "advanced"—and not common—features) but about bluetooth synced games between multiple devices (Real Racing 2, Asphalt 6: Adrenaline, Sega & Sonic Racing…). P.e. Asphalt 6 exists for Android but doesn't support bluetooth local multiplayer which is an exciting new racing feeling. Let alone retina resolution w. super smooth 60 fps on iPad 3 p.e.

As for common features like game controllers we have iCade (nothing like this for Android) and iControlPad and that's all you need.

Ive always had excellent sound quality from my HTC phones with beats audio.

An independent German mag for sound engineers choosed iOS devices as the best mobile sound quality products. "Best MP3 player."—"Best value sound production tool of ALL software/OS platforms." (Even better value than Macs.) That means: If you want to dig in electronic sound production you get most for you money with iOS hard- and software.

Game Center - Open Feint cross platform much better

OpenFeint was developed for iOS devices in the first place, I had it since day one but it became awefully slow, sluggish and finally stopped working (login okay but doesn't count my scores any more). Game Center is much better and reliable. OF doesn't even support online multiplayer gaming.

Easy os updates- again Android has had OTA updates since day 1

You MAYBE will find ONE Android OS update during the lifetime of your Android device if you're lucky enough. No matter if Over The Air or wired.

App updates can be set to be carried out automatically.

No thanks. I'll decide if and when I want to update an app.

I ignored your other points

So please educate yourself what I mean with professional audio production. Android is not even a TOY when you compare those features.

Have a quick look at the recent postings in MR's sister site touchArcade's forum thread "Apps For iOS Musicians" with the advanced synths and beat machines by Propellerheads (Roland Emulators), Native Instruments, Korg, Moog and all the other most famous names of that genre (no toys, highly professional):

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=890

Try that with Android (VirtualMIDI Madness in Genome w/ Sunrizer, Bassline, Molten & MoDrum):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ulk2nHPbA

You can even connect external MIDI devices. Wireless or wired. Have a look at sophisticated peripherals like Alesis iO Dock Pro with XLR plugs. Or iRig for guitarists (tuner, pedalboard, amp head, cabinet, microphone AND 4 track recorder) and iRig MIX/DJRig for DJs (portable iOS DJ mixer, you can plug in and cue ANY source audio, and X-Sync will automatically match the tempo and make your transitions seamless. You can use ANY of your audio sources in your mix like a second iOS device, cd players, other MP3 players, whatever). It just works.

When I talk about advanced OS features then I don't mean OTA updates. Android/Google has still to learn a lot besides hardware, design, respecting privacy and NEVER spying user data (very bad reputation). It's not even worth to be called plagiarism. Wannabe plagiarism with data collecting mania maybe…

 

[Sensation]

My third-party wireless speakers never heard about DNLA but they support rock-solid AirPlay.



I didn't talk about controllers (the posting that I replied was about "advanced"—and not common—features) but about bluetooth synced games between multiple devices (Real Racing 2, Asphalt 6: Adrenaline, Sega & Sonic Racing…). P.e. Asphalt 6 exists for Android but doesn't support bluetooth local multiplayer which is an exciting new racing feeling. Let alone retina resolution w. super smooth 60 fps on iPad 3 p.e.

As for common features like game controllers we have iCade (nothing like this for Android) and iControlPad and that's all you need.



An independent German mag for sound engineers choosed iOS devices as the best mobile sound quality products. "Best MP3 player."—"Best value sound production tool of ALL software/OS platforms." (Even better value than Macs.) That means: If you want to dig in electronic sound production you get most for you money with iOS hard- and software.



OpenFeint was developed for iOS devices in the first place, I had it since day one but it became awefully slow, sluggish and finally stopped working (login okay but doesn't count my scores any more). Game Center is much better and reliable. OF doesn't even support online multiplayer gaming.



You MAYBE will find ONE Android OS update during the lifetime of your Android device if you're lucky enough. No matter if Over The Air or wired.



No thanks. I'll decide if and when I want to update an app.



So please educate yourself what I mean with professional audio production. Android is not even a TOY when you compare those features.

Have a quick look at the recent postings in MR's sister site touchArcade's forum thread "Apps For iOS Musicians" with the advanced synths and beat machines by Propellerheads (Roland Emulators), Native Instruments, Korg, Moog and all the other most famous names of that genre (no toys, highly professional):

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=890

Try that with Android (VirtualMIDI Madness in Genome w/ Sunrizer, Bassline, Molten & MoDrum):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ulk2nHPbA

You can even connect external MIDI devices. Wireless or wired. Have a look at sophisticated peripherals like Alesis iO Dock Pro with XLR plugs. Or iRig for guitarists (tuner, pedalboard, amp head, cabinet, microphone AND 4 track recorder) and iRig MIX/DJRig for DJs (portable iOS DJ mixer, you can plug in and cue ANY source audio, and X-Sync will automatically match the tempo and make your transitions seamless. You can use ANY of your audio sources in your mix like a second iOS device, cd players, other MP3 players, whatever). It just works.

When I talk about advanced OS features then I don't mean OTA updates. Android/Google has still to learn a lot besides hardware, design, respecting privacy and NEVER spying user data (very bad reputation). It's not even worth to be called plagiarism. Wannabe plagiarism with data collecting mania maybe…

I imagine your third party speakers bought a license from Apple. DNLA is much better because its used by so many devices. Take a look here for a sample

You cant blame Android because a certain app doesn't allow certain features like your bluetooth link. Here are some games which support bluetooth local play. The bluetooth is severally crippled on iphone I don't think it even supports sending files to each other? My Sony Erricson T68i did and that was years old. This icade thing looks terrible, hardly something I can hold in my hand looks like it needs a desk. It runs of bluetooth so no reason you couldnt use this on Android anyway. Can you not use controllers on the iphone/ipad?


Link to this German article please?

I cant say I have ever had any problems with openfeint on my Android games. Logs in instantly for me on my Sensation. They are still all lagging behind Xbox live though, its much better on win phone 7.

Ive had an epic ICS update for my phone thanks, and a few for my tablet. Again this feature has been around since day 1.

You can pick if an app auto updates or not on Android.

I have no interest in pro audio, thanks anyway please try trolling harder.

 

[Piggie]

I bet Tim Cook will be very happy once he cleans up Steve Jobs messes.

More of a practical, thinking man who's not vindictive, he'll smooth things out & Apple will make even more money.

Expending all the negative, spiteful angry time that Jobs did, costs far more than just legal fees and time to scheme.

Once free of this nonsense, Cook will be free to do the many things he does best.

I have to agree, way way WAY back Steve got just to "Personal" about stuff, and, as we all know, we'd rather them concentrate 100% of making great products people want to buy as they are the best, as opposed to using bully boy tactics to try and stop customers seeing alternatives.

Can you even begin to imagine how far back technologically our entire world would be now, if Apple had the power it does now, but back in the 1970's.

 

[ixodes]

I have to agree, way way WAY back Steve got just to "Personal" about stuff, and, as we all know, we'd rather them concentrate 100% of making great products people want to buy as they are the best, as opposed to using bully boy tactics to try and stop customers seeing alternatives.

Can you even begin to imagine how far back technologically our entire world would be now, if Apple had the power it does now, but back in the 1970's.

Kudo's for an excellent post, I could not agree more.

 

[Deedlez]

I can't wait for all these patent battles to die down - which will happen once the dust settles and the major players get entrenched and happy with earning slices off of each others licenses. Minor players such as Motorola and (maybe) Nokia will fall and their patent bounty will be distributed between the Googles and Apples.

Still find it odd that Samsung is biting one of the hands that feeds it. Seems a risky play.

 

[eject]

Siri is Beta software. You have to start somewhere. I have a vision of Siri being like the 'computer' on Star-Trek. It will take time, just as it took 35 years to get where personal computers are now from the original Apple I. There was relatively very little use for that technology way back then also.

Totally agree, these things take time - it's been moving so quickly, things need to level out a little. People are greedy for massive fast advances in technology... In my opinion, you wait and take your time with Apple and they get it right (most of the time)

 

[elgrecomac]

This strategy has worked well in the past....a la Microsoft

The only reason that Samsung is the second most profitable company (when it comes to the mobile space) is because their strategy is to essentially copy what Apple is doing. A simple strategy, that has proven to be more successful than they could have ever imagined.

Will they just drop this now? No way.. The legal battles are just a cost of doing business..

Copying Apple?...MS and its partners made hundreds of billions of dollars doing just this. They cleaned Apple's clock in the desktop and server arenas and continue to do so to this day. BUT Apple needs to nip this in the bud or history will repeat itself in the pad market.

The BIG difference this time around is the huge coffers Apple has to wage a relentless legal war of multiple fronts. Apple created a new computing market, a app and music ecosystem and great customer support. Lets hope history does not repeat itself.

 

[akbarali.ch]

Speaking as the owner of a Galaxy S, I can say that your argument is half true. I did choose it was because I thought it was a copy of the iPhone. But I've since realized that it's different in many ways, and there are advantages and disadvantages of each.

The iPhone is easier to use. It crashes less often. It is better integrated with other Apple products and has a larger app store. iPhone apps are cheaper, and most of them are consistent with Apple's design aesthetic.

Android, on the other hand, can do more advanced features, but requires more tinkering. I often boast about the removable battery to my iPhone-owning friends. And it's open-source. It's a playground for obsessive tinkerers. It fills niches the the iPhone simply can't.

It's no coincidence that the most popular Android device is the one that's most similar to an iPhone. I don't deny that Samsung owe a lot of their success to Apple. But Apple did not get there alone either. They certainly did not invent the smartphone, or the touchscreen. They weren't even the first to combine the two. Every new piece of technology is built on the shoulders of earlier breakthroughs, dating back to the discovery of fire. Watch Everything Is A Remix if you're still undecided.

I agree they didn't invent, but it takes guts to come up with an integrated idea and bet on it whole sale, after its successfull, its very easy to replicate it like samsung did. Same way its breakthrough to get the music publishers to come terms to sell every track at $1, putting all your efforts involving all risk to make it success and when its working and looking good anyone can come just laydown the same deal and get it running. no brainer

Similar to mouse
Similar to Touch
Similar to Voice

These were invented by someone else and also used in products, but no one ever dared to bet on it wholesale considering the huge risk involved in failure.

i recall Casio had a touch digital diaries 15-16yrs, voice commands was working good on nokia phones much much before Apple ever came out with siri. And siri was a different company which apple didn't build, anyone could've bought it and applied it to thier phone but did anyone do it? samsung? HTC? all the big guys? no one.

Have a look at these links, very interesting
http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-1-Hardware-Design.html

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-2-Interface-Icons.html

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-3-Package-Design.html


Look at Macbook Air, all make laptops, but who dared to make a laptop by removing dvd drive, making the batteries non-removable, putting just one usb port? If you look at the design decision, they are all tremendously RISKY. who will dare it. Now just look around, every company going after it. Am i wrong?

I'm not saying that samsung can't do or HTC cant do,they are all very capable of doing what apple does, three times better, but these company will never ever be able to gather enough courage to come up with an idea and bet on it, they simply wont take the risk.

And lastly adding feature to the phone or the OS is not big deal, question is how you add and still keep it simple for 2yrs old kid to use it plus still keep it as a utility device and not make it into production device. Computers are productive device, ipads as semi productive and phones should alwasy be utility devices just like a toaster, washing machine or a car, simple and standard. I want apple to add more features but i just dont want them to clutter my phone, add it if its working really well.

Its all about who is going to take the Risk with untreaded idea, Apple is just not scared about it.

 

[Renzatic]

Have a look at these links, very interesting
http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-1-Hardware-Design.html

See exhibit A: This Samsung phone with round edges. At first glance, you might believe this phone is similar to the iPhone because of the shape. Oh you poor, deluded fools. You see, this phone is NOTHING like the iPhone because it doesn't have...

...silver around the edges.

Therefore it is completely and totally different, and not at all related to the phones that came after it. Unlike exhibit B, which has rounded corners AND silver around the edges, and is obviously a cheap ASSSIIIAAAANNNN copy of the far more innovative and completely and totally awesome iPhone which changed my life forever and made me feel like life was worth living again.

GAME SET MATCH! THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT, SAMSUNG!

(I should add that even I agree that the old Galaxy was...well...greatly inspired by the iPhone. It's nigh on indisputable. The thing I find funny is the OCD level anal retentive lengths some people will go through to prove it).

 

[haruhiko]

When your enemy is too strong you simply can't wipe them out with thermonuclear warheads.

 

[Landzw]

I don't think either one needs one more than the other. We have Apple fanboys (you) claiming that Elpida (or similar company) will provide the components Apple needs. Will they be up to Samsung quality? Most likely not. Will Apple's sales drop if quality is lost? Or if they can't get the volume Samsung provides? Yes. Not to mention all the other parts that Samsung makes, and at such high volume.

On the other hand, Samsung does have a large market in making parts for Apple. Huge demand for them, and a huge market share.

So to suggest that this relationship is anything but symbiotic, and take sides as to who needs who, is stupid. They both benefit, hence the reason neither company has dropped the other, and the reason that they are attempting to resolve this, whether it be in court or through settlement talks.

Get off your high horse. Neither company is better than the other.

Finally someone who's talking sense, its not just Apple that turn to other company's for there parts, even Samsung do. Samsung just like every other company including Sony have different suppliers around the world that do different parts for there TV's , Phones , computers etc so this business of who needs who is rubbish, everyone needs each other.
The only way forward is to be able to work with each other and give each other respect for there products and try to to end up with the same products.
Not only that with Microsoft announcing they will not sue over Patent issues so much and wanting to work with other company's then it could leave Samsung and Apple behind.

 

[dba7dba]

Can you even begin to imagine how far back technologically our entire world would be now, if Apple had the power it does now, but back in the 1970's.

You mean a world where a PC would cost a fortune that only the very well off can buy one? And a world where OS X doesn't exist?

Apple keeps cost down and comes out with new stuff to stay ahead of competition, and competition wouldn't exist if Apple held such monopoly/power.

 

[oliversl]

Android translate speech to text on the device, then use the info literally. Siri translate the speech to text on Apple servers, then with AI gives you the result.

- Siri, make an appointment for today at 10.
- You have another meeting at that time.
- And tomorrow?
- Ok, here is your appointment.
Siri makes an appointment for tomorrow at 10.

That and other things Android does not do.

Then educate me. The speech recognition on Android is not just for typing text. But as I mentioned Siri is better, but on Android you can just hit a button and say "navigate to Walmart" and it will start the gps software and start telling you where Walmart is. As many companies do Apple took a good idea an built upon it. As for widgets I never stated who started Widgets, but just the someone did and others followed. I will say that I am ready for them on the iPhone.

Thanks for your input.

Edit: just found this on Widgets. I was shocked. http://www.irintech.com/x1/co/498/Who-invented-the-widget?---you-will-not-believe,-but-its-true
(but can we really believe everything we read on the web?)

 

[dba7dba]

Android translate speech to text on the device, then use the info literally. Siri translate the speech to text on Apple servers, then with AI gives you the result.

- Siri, make an appointment for today at 10.
- You have another meeting at that time.
- And tomorrow?
- Ok, here is your appointment.
Siri makes an appointment for tomorrow at 10.

That and other things Android does not do.

You mean Android does not do YET...