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12 year old girl shoots mom

edesignuk said:
Gun crime may have been rising, but it is still NO WHERE near the level of the US. Every home doesn't have a gun, and so accidents, or people just loosing their temper and going nuts doesn't happen.
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What's all this about a 'gun culture'? I personally don't know anyone who owns a gun. It's far from every home having a gun. You make it sound as though every single american is carrying a handgun at all times, and that we'll start shooting anyone with no notice when we 'go nuts'...

EDIT Sorry. I'm done now. edesignuk's comments just upset me.
 
5300cs said:
I live in Japan. Where to get one? Do I have to be living in Tokyo?
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Just go to your local 7/11 (full service version) between 1AM and 2AM and ask for a Lifle. They will reply to your comment with long or short.

You reply short for a pistol or long for a rifle.

The last that I checked, the cost for a cheap model was between 80,000-90,000 yen.

Ammo is another issue.

Seriously, all of the above is total BS! :D

Sorry, but if you have to ask, forget about it. :eek:

Sushi
 
Way too sad.

Personally, guns are perfectly fine. Ammunition is the killer. People say that a person firing the gun kills people...but honestly, it is the bullet going MACH 2 that kills them! So, according to Dogbert:
"Guns are for everybody. Bazookas too. But I am the only person with ammunition..."

This 12 year old did not just, one night, freak out and kill her mom. There had to have been signs for weeks, even months, that she wasn't doing well. And when was it "normal" for a 12 year old to be ditching school? That isn't right, you are supposed to go to school!

People these days should be able to be tried for stupidity...unfortunately, very few people believe that they are a member of the stupid grouping...sigh...

"American history is nothing but a bunch of farmers with pitchforks burning things."
My friend in 8th grad US history...only thing I remember about that class...but it is oddly true.
 
Mechcozmo said:
"American history is nothing but a bunch of farmers with pitchforks burning things."
My friend in 8th grad US history...only thing I remember about that class...but it is oddly true.
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ugh...i just had that class last year and it drove me up the freakin wall! it wasn't necessarily the class (i rather like history) it was the teacher...
 
My teacher was great. She couldn't draw (actually got class confused between a potato and the US of A!) and she described herself as "naturally intoxicated." One of the best teachers at the school, IMO and in everyone else's too.
 
First off, does anyone believe the story in the first place? I couldn't find it. (Used google)

Second off, if it was true, there's got to be a whole lot more to the story.

Third off, handling a weapon isn't possible for any ol' blow joe. It takes at least careful observation or a TEACHER, anyone who's handled a gun or research.

Fourth off, yes, your correct the bullet does the killing, but if a weapon is treated as always loaded, you avoid a lot of danger.

Fifth off, 44% death rate is related to car crashes (43,000 people), SEVETEEN% are falls (16,200 people), 3.5% deaths are due to choking (3,400 people), 4% due to drowning (3,900 people) but 0.6% of death accidents in this country are gun related (600) in one year *National Safety Council Injury Facts*. A family owning a gun with a child (who would have to know how to handle it, or a parent already has it ready to fire) is 71 times more likely to die in a car crash than by a fatal gun shooting.

Sixth off, most of those who are illegal shooters (homocidal and gang related) illegally use those weapons. The government puts strict gun laws on people who are getting killed by people illegally using firearms anyway.

Guess what crime rate is in Texas compared to California? You can say "Oh, gee, crime rate went up in the past year after gun laws become lienant!" Ever think that crime rate goes up by 3%?

" Bruce Elfant, a constable in Travis County, believes more handguns on the street endangers innocent lives.
"My concern is not so much about what will happen with criminals, but I worry about the children and I'm concerned that there are going to be irresponsible acts. With more guns, there will be more shootings." -- Bruce Elfant.

If prisons are a cure for crime, Texas should have mightily outperformed New York during the 1990s, from a crime-control standpoint. But the Lone Star State's crime drops were much less impressive than what occurred in the Empire State. From 1990 to 1998, the decline in New York's crime rate exceeded the decline in Texas' crime rate by 26 percent.
(http://www.commondreams.org/views/091500-106.htm)

Well, what this site doesn't know is that crime in Texas used to be and still is a lot less lower in New York.

Think about it. A burgler wants to rob a family. What's he going to do? Rob gun-hard warhawk Texans, or wimpy gayed out Californians where he can get an uzzi for a good price anyway?
 
sushi said:
Sad story.

I am not an advocate of gun locks. Too easy to bypass.

I prefer a gun vault/safe.

Sushi
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Not to mention, if you're going to have a gun in the house, you should teach kids how to use, maintain, and respect them. If your kids learn about guns from TV and movies and then you leave one lying around the house (or "cleverly" hidden as the case may be), of course something bad is going to happen.
 
savar said:
Not to mention, if you're going to have a gun in the house, you should teach kids how to use, maintain, and respect them.
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That's a given.

Guns, knives, swords, etc. are all weapons and need to be handled appropriately.

savar said:
If your kids learn about guns from TV and movies and then you leave one lying around the house (or "cleverly" hidden as the case may be), of course something bad is going to happen.
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So true. Hollywood is for entertainment!

So much of what they show is pure crap when it comes to authenticity. There are noted exceptions but they are few and far between. Anyhow, my guess is that most folks go to the movies to be entertained and not to be trained. Unfortunately, some cannot separate fact from fiction.

On a side note, I still cringe at Pearl Harbor when the planes fly between the ships on Battleship Row. Looks great in the movie but is completely inaccurate based on reality.

I started with "guns" around age 8 and have been shooting since. My instructor was the very best and taught me well.

That is why I know that guns can be safe when handled correctly and in the appropriate manner.
 
Colonel Marksma said:
Third off, handling a weapon isn't possible for any ol' blow joe. It takes at least careful observation or a TEACHER, anyone who's handled a gun or research.
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Very naive words.

Anybody can pick up a "gun" and handle it be it a pistol, rifle, shotgun, BB/Pellet gun and of course accidentally fire it.

To handle a "gun" responibly, is another matter and that is what I think you meant in your post.
 
edesignuk said:
Maybe, but just the fact that they are there presents a greater danger than if they were not.
I wouldn't have a clue where to get one from, and I think the same would go for the vast majority of people over here.
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The is now one illegal gun in the UK for every six people, Guns like drugs are easy to find, I found them when I lived there. Know I live in the USA and own guns, I understand a different story, History needs guns, If there were no guns, freedom could not be.

I see in Europe freedom of speach is very limited now, freedom to vote a politcal party is also restricted. Germany /austria being the best example. If you where a swastika then you WILL be arrested and imprisions. This threat has been mad also against the british for doing the hitler salute in the up coming world cup.

there is a ban on far right parties, but not on the left. It is not a true free place.

As for gun control, I think who ever left a firearm accessable to minors, and a crime is commited should be puninshed very servrely. I think it make sense to require by law guns safe, there are some good safe for about $100.

The whole trial of kids as adults is so wrong. It has to be one fair law, trial for all kds as adults or not. One standard for all. Freedom is based on Fairness, equality and equal rights.

I Think the UK now is a very dangerous place. Crime is very high in Cities and in the country. It sadden me, all my family still lives there and to see the crap they put up with.

I so glade to be an American, with the constitution. I now have real freedoms, which are based arround the core of being human.

The meaning of government is this "If a group of people appoint a person to defend and represent them, this is a government. The representative has no more power than the people, he enforces just the same rights. Therefore govenments shoudl have no more power than any one person has". This is not the case today, govenments have stolen the power from the people, taking more and more control. Even local govenments in most countries are losing power to the big evil central govenment. It will come a day when the US and euopen govenments take to much power. Then will come a time of forced uphappy life for the people. READ 1984, it not talking about communisum, it talking about where the free world is heading.

This is why gun control issue are a sore point in the US. The right to defends one rights is important. I agree in the 2nd admendment to defend freedom, and bare arms, it power to the people. But I don't see any violation of rights to enforce some safety for firearms storage. Need to keep weapons free, but out of kids hands.
 
EminenceGrise said:
Except that the right to bear arms is guaranteed by Amendment to the Constitution, as part of the Bill of Rights:

AMENDMENT[II.] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Further, it is (by design) difficult to modify the Constitution (or it's Amendments - the Second Amendment can only be stricken by another amendment (like Prohibition was)), as set forth in Article V. of the Constitution. An Amendment must be passed by 2/3 of the votes in both the House of Representatives and the Senate - or it can be proposed by 2/3 of the States' Legislatures. It must then be ratified by 3/4 of the States to become an Amendment.

You have to understand some of historical background to know why this Amendment was included in the Bill of Rights. A short list:

1) Firearms were very much a necessity in the early history of the US - the country was a frontier, after all. You had to hunt your own food, and the natives could be 'hostile'.

2) The Revolutionary War would obviously not have happened if the people had not had access to arms. In addition, after the war, the Framers of the Constitution were very distrustful of any form of government, and to some extent each other (in the sense that the different States had differing ideas about how things should be run; the Constitution is direct evidence of this - see also the previous 'Articles of Confederation'). An armed populace would keep things in check, in the sense that should an armed conflict become the only resolution to an oppressive government (as had just occurred), the people would have the tools to deal with that.

3) The US had no standing army at the time. The only defense available were the volunteer colonial militias, which could be called up should they be needed. Traditionally, they supplied their own firearms (they already had them as part of frontier life).

--

Modern day concerns about firearms simply didn't exist when the Bill of Rights was ratified. People were well used to firearms safety, it was a fact of life ("common sense" if you will). Part of the current problem is that for a large part of this nation's history, firearms have been a necessity and many people still view them as such (some legitimately, and others less so...). However, the safety aspect is no longer 'common sense' to a good part of the 'gun toting' populace. There isn't anything inherently unsafe with people owning guns, any more than for people who own and drive cars. People are just no longer well equipped by life alone to know about gun safety (it's not like they teach it in school...). I personally don't own a gun, and probably never will - I simply have no reason to own one. However, I understand why the right to bear arms exists in this country, and I'm not really willing to give up a right simply because I don't have a use for it at the present time.

That's not to say that I don't think what is currently happening in this country RE: gun usage is appalling - rather, I don't think the problem can be legislated away. Too many people are imprisoned in this country as it is. Education would be far more effective (in solving this problem and many others). Something is wrong in this country when 12 year old children are killing their parents, but to me it doesn't follow that is simply because there is 'easy access to guns'. You don't need a gun to kill someone - trying to ban guns, for example, is like treating the symptom and not the disease. It would be better to figure out why so many people think that this kind of violence is an acceptable way to 'solve' problems, and fix that instead.
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nicely put
 
miloblithe said:
It's a remarkably bizarre argument that because guns kill fewer people than do cars, if we shouldn't ban cars then we mustn't ban guns.
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A very Good point. I add some more input there are more guns in the USA than Cars.

Another interesting fact, Canada has a low gun crime (I am talking before the new laws), and that canada has simular gun culture like the USA, the difference is that Canada does not have the Murder rate. (this is precanada registration laws). If you want some more input, even though I don't like this guy but Micheal more did a documentry trying to identify why the USA has such a high gun death rate, it was not because of gun ownership.

Another point, criminals get guns regardless of law, in the usa the criminal cannot purchase a firearm legally.

It is a proven fact that in the light of Concealed gun laws being introduced in the US over the last 12 years gun crime has drop in those state, well all crime has dropped dew to fact the Joe blogg good be carrying.

I remember watch a debate between two George Town university Professors and a another university (southen USA), the two george town represented gun control and legistration, the one was an avocate. The final out come was that the people to carry guns make the place safer.

Remember Freedom is not free, you pay with life, or lack of it.
 
Hemingray said:
I would be surprised if a 12 year old girl could bypass a good gun lock (unless you mean finding the key). But I agree, a gun safe would be the better option. I'm glad that California requires a gun lock be purchased with new firearms. I think it's a step in the right direction at least...
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Here in the UK we have a zero tolerance policy.

There is no excuse to have a gun in your home.

Rich.
 
How many of you anti-guns fanatics have been raped? Or mugged? Or robbed? Or had a loved one murdered? Perhaps if you were you would have a different take on the situation. It's so easy to be sunshine and light when you've never seen the dark.
I will be the first to say that America has a skewed admiration of violence and guns and all that comes with. I'm not saying it's right. And in a perfect world it shouldn't be necessary to arm yourself just to feel safe.
The blame does not lie with the gun but the user. Are we going to bitch and cry for steak knives to be outlawed? Murders get committed with them. Or vehicles? Common pesticides have been used as poison to kill. Hell, let's get rid of every thing that could possibly be used to murder someone. Like that will prevent it. :rolleyes:
Bottom line, murder is committed because some twisted f*ck can't handle their sh*t. There is something wrong in the head of someone who is even close to capable of blasting someone's face off, or taking their life with any other method as well. They can cry "I had a bad childhood" all they want, I had it pretty crappy but I couldn't dream of taking someone's life other than in self defence. I say get rid of THEM, not the tools used.
 
jet3004 said:
Yeah, this news is getting old...

Looks like it's time to change the standards about what age qualifies you to be tried as an adult. She IS in Texas, though, so I say, fry her in the chair.
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Umm, no. We don't have a distinction between child and adult criminals because of some imagined difference of the severity of their crimes. We differentiate between the two recause it's recognised that a child has less life experience, maturity, and education than an adult, and so they are less at fault.

I would say that, generally, if an adult commits murder, it's their fault, but if a child commits murder, there's a combination of fault between them and whoever is raising them.
 
appleretailguy said:
Getting a gun, cocking, aiming and pulling the trigger are premeditated acts that deserve punishment.
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I have no idea how that counts a premeditated. If I run into a room, in a blind rage, see a gun, pick it up, and shoot someone, that could take 3 seconds, which definitely does not count as premeditation. Just because someone describing the action types up each step laboriously, does not mean it took a lot of mental effort to do the act.
 
MarkCollette said:
I would say that, generally, if an adult commits murder, it's their fault, but if a child commits murder, there's a combination of fault between them and whoever is raising them.
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This is all fine and dandy in a idealistic world.

Reality is different.

For example, how would you feel if a child killed someone you dearly loved?

Would you have this same perspective?
 
fatsoforgotso said:
Here in the UK we have a zero tolerance policy.

There is no excuse to have a gun in your home.

Rich.
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Not true. My mates dad has a shotgun locked up in his attic, he has a licence for it and everything's honkey dory.

thing is the UK hasn't got the same culture as the US, but it is turning that way slowly. I don't know how to put my finger on it but it just seems like gangs play a huge part of US culture. Here you need a license to buy and own a gun. If you don't then you're buggered as you lose all rights (Tony Martin anyone?). Gun shops are as rare as chimps here. From my mass travels all over the UK I have spotted 2 weapons shops. 1 in Mossley; Lock Stock sell weapons but not bullet guns and some Martial Arts shop in the centre of Manchester that sell swords (albeit blunt), nunchucks and the likes. But never a real gun shop.
 
jadekitty24 said:
How many of you anti-guns fanatics have been raped? Or mugged? Or robbed? Or had a loved one murdered? Perhaps if you were you would have a different take on the situation. It's so easy to be sunshine and light when you've never seen the dark.
I will be the first to say that America has a skewed admiration of violence and guns and all that comes with. I'm not saying it's right. And in a perfect world it shouldn't be necessary to arm yourself just to feel safe.
The blame does not lie with the gun but the user. Are we going to bitch and cry for steak knives to be outlawed? Murders get committed with them. Or vehicles? Common pesticides have been used as poison to kill. Hell, let's get rid of every thing that could possibly be used to murder someone. Like that will prevent it. :rolleyes:
Bottom line, murder is committed because some twisted f*ck can't handle their sh*t. There is something wrong in the head of someone who is even close to capable of blasting someone's face off, or taking their life with any other method as well. They can cry "I had a bad childhood" all they want, I had it pretty crappy but I couldn't dream of taking someone's life other than in self defence. I say get rid of THEM, not the tools used.
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Ban these sort of "gangster" knives you get for sure. But I think you're missing the point. Guns were made for 2 reasons, to attack and defend. You don't go making a birthday cake with a gun, you don't quietly disperse an insect infestation problem in the basement with a gun, you don't drive a gun to drop the kids off at school or drive to work on. Guns shoot. Nothing more. To say "ban everything!" is just ridiculous and taking other peoples arguments to the extreme.

Here's one, ban alcohol. Alcohol reduces inhibitions which in turn make you more likely to kill someone. How many drunken attacks take place in the world or rather how many attacks or muggings take place because of some link to drink or drugs?

I agree at the end. Get rid of them. Anyone who uses a gun needs to be put away. The only exceptions I can think of is protecting your family and home from an intruder or if they have a gun too. Anything else is stupid.
But that point can be skewed. About a year ago (maybe?), a girl in London was stabbed in the neck because she stepped on someone elses toes at a dance.

It's all down to attitudes. People with them; get off Earth.
 
I really do agree with you, it's just really hard to implement.

raggedjimmi said:
Ban these sort of "gangster" knives you get for sure. But I think you're missing the point. Guns were made for 2 reasons, to attack and defend. You don't go making a birthday cake with a gun, you don't quietly disperse an insect infestation problem in the basement with a gun, you don't drive a gun to drop the kids off at school or drive to work on. Guns shoot. Nothing more. To say "ban everything!" is just ridiculous and taking other peoples arguments to the extreme.

Here's one, ban alcohol. Alcohol reduces inhibitions which in turn make you more likely to kill someone. How many drunken attacks take place in the world or rather how many attacks or muggings take place because of some link to drink or drugs?

I agree at the end. Get rid of them. Anyone who uses a gun needs to be put away. The only exceptions I can think of is protecting your family and home from an intruder or if they have a gun too. Anything else is stupid.
But that point can be skewed. About a year ago (maybe?), a girl in London was stabbed in the neck because she stepped on someone elses toes at a dance.

It's all down to attitudes. People with them; get off Earth.
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grapes911 said:
I perfer both. While I think Americans should have the right to arms, they should be more responsible with them.
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I would just like to add that guns are quite safe when handled properly by responsible adults.
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And how, pray tell, can anyone ensure or enforce that?

You can't legislate against stupidity and irresponsibility.

You CAN legislate aginst handgun ownership and take the $^@@ng things out of our communities altogether.

(and don't start on the 'criminals will be the only ones with guns'. That's as it should be. Criminals will always break the law - kinda the definition of the term. So throw the book at them. Private gun ownership kills far more innocents than ever were saved by 'protection'. How many drivebys and street or nightclub shootings could have been defended against if the victim had a Colt?)

Here's a thought exercise: Give 2 people the same weapons to 'level the playing field' and provide equal 'protection'. Who is going to lose, the responsible and level minded person or the unstable, criminal or alcohol/drug crazed person? It's not just access, it's willingness to use it to injure or kill another person. The protection argument is a crock of #$^%.
 
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