Buying Macbook Pro - 2.4 Ghz / 2.5 Ghz (all silver) or the new one? HELP!

jon08 said:

1) Is it true that NONE but the latest MBP is compatible with DDR3 RAM?

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If you mean can the older Macbook Pro use DDR3, no, it only takes DDR2. In either case I'd personally buy 4GB for either system to replace the 2GB it comes with (ie buy 2x2GB).

2) Would I be losing a lot by getting the MBP with 2 GB DDR2 RAM as opposed to 2 GB DDR3?

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Nothing really. It's clocked faster, but my understanding is it has worse timings in other ways and ends up about the same at those clock speeds. At any rate, I wouldn't really let it influence your decision.

3) What role does this L2 cache play on the laptop? Is it better to have 6 MB or 3 MB of it?

4) Is there a noticeable difference in performance between 2.5 Ghz (Bus: 800 Mhz) and 2.4 Ghz (Bus: 1066 Mhz)?

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6MB is better, but you're not going to be able to tell a difference between any of these processors without actually running a benchmark on them. I wouldn't worry too much about the "slower" CPU in the lower end versions of these things, though of course the faster one will be a bit better (probably mostly noticeable in things like media encoding that need all the power they can get, but don't rely on the GPU like games do-most games are going to be held back by the GPU, so the CPUs will probably be too close to tell much of a difference).

5) How would a Geforce 8600 512 MB be compared to 9600 256 MB in terms of gaming? 9600 not much better?

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It'll probably depend on the game, and settings you run. They're basically the exact same hardware, but the 9600GT is clocked faster. Basically if the game or settings you're using require more than 256MB, the slower GPU with more video RAM will outperform the faster GPU in this case, but I can't really give you an example

6) On Macmall.com I found certain early 2008 version MBPs with glossy screens. Does anyone know if they are legitimate? Were those some kind of special editions, or how come they come with a glossy screen? (I thought this was the latest MBP trait only.)

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Matte is generally preferred, but yeah, the last generation Macbook Pro was offered with both screens. Matte was the default, but there were so called "glossy" screens available.

7) If I were to have the Boot Camp thingy with Vista, is it possible to just have Vista running somewhere in the background, and whenever you need to use a program that is not compatible with MAC OS you'd just pull it out of Vista and run it on MAC OS without having to completely switch to Vista?

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Not with Boot Camp. Boot Camp lets you completely reboot to Windows, and the Macbook Pro just becomes a Windows computer. There are two (or sort of three) programs that let you do what you're talking about though. VMWare's Fusion (I think it's called...it's their only Mac product) and Parallels. Both allow you to install and run Windows within OS X. I personally would buy VMWare's product, as they've been doing virtualization on the enterprise level far longer than Parallels (and I've heard the basics, and stability, etc. are just better on VMWare's product). There are demos for both I think.

Remember that you'll have to buy your own separate copy of Windows regardless of whether you install it through Boot Camp or VMWare/Parallels' product. Also remember virtualization works fine for some things-running a Windows version of Office, for example, but you could NOT run modern games through it. You would need to reboot and run Windows by itself.

Also note that the older Macbook Pro does NOT have a user accessible hard drive like the new one does. I'd personally never buy the old model because of that. There were also manufacturing issues with SOME 8600GT GPUs, but not the 9600GT, so there's probably some chance of getting a bad GPU on the old model.

Also I've heard there are issues-particularly in Windows-with the drivers for the new trackpad. Not an issue if you plan on using an external mouse though.

Get the older one, especially if you prefer the look. The new ones are a lot more about the new design and a lot less about being faster/more featureful.

jon08 said:

Are those glossy screens equivalent to those in the latest MBPs?

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I don't know if they're the exact same screens, but they're probably similar. I was VERY impressed with the last gen matte screen, and I even thought the new Macbook's screen looks good (and the new MB Pro's screen is supposed to be better still).

So would it be a better idea to just take a MBP with no Windows OS and then buy it separately as opposed to the offers that include Windows already installed?

What version of Vista would work best with a MBP though? x32 or x64?

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What was the offer? I mean if it's a reasonable price and giving you a full copy of Windows with it, it might be fine. As long as they give you the disc you could always reinstall everything the way you want it.

What do you mean by "older Macbook Pro does NOT have a user accessible hard drive"? Does that imply that there is NO Windows-like option of opening, say, a D: hard drive with your data and simply access it? What is used as an alternative then?

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I'm not quite sure what you're asking with that question, but what I meant is the hard drive can't officially be physically accessed and replaced on the old Macbook Pro by an end user. Some people will tell you it's easy to do anyway, but it gets into questionable warranty territory, and it's not something I'd be comfortable with doing.

For some people, the lack of a user accessable drive doesn't matter, but for me, I want to be able to buy a new drive when I get the system and swap it-then swap it to the original drive if I ever have to send it in for warranty service.

It's something to consider at least if you're comparing the two models. For me it's a deal killer for the old models, but for some it wouldn't be an issue at all.

In terms of Windows and how OS X or Windows sees the hard drive, there's no difference-I was just talking about physically being able to access the drive. On the new Macbook Pros it's ludicrously easy. You can see the drive without even using any tools in about 5 seconds, and would just need a screwdriver to make the switch.

jon08 said:

This is one of the offers: http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop...remium+pre-installed-MacBook+Pro&dpno=7699458

I am not exactly sure if they provide you with a Vista Recovery CD or the original package of Vista, or nothing of the above......

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I'd want to find out about that-I'd guess they just give you a boxed copy, but...

Plus that price isn't all that great. Even with Windows there are cheaper places.

It makes sense that the new MBPs may have better quality screens because they're all corner-to-corner class.

aaquib said:

It makes sense that the new MBPs may have better quality screens because they're all corner-to-corner class.

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That doesn't follow. The glass covering the screen has nothing to do with the quality of the screen. Both the current and last gen models probably look pretty great though.

jon08 said:

Ok, let's say I buy Vista separately.... $1549 seems to be the best price I've encountered so far for a 2.5 GHz GLOSSY one... http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail~dpno~7691238~Action~ACCESSORIES~redir~1.asp#tabs_section

Do you know any even cheaper places?

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That's not bad! $50 cheaper than Amazon even. They're charging too much for Vista though, if that's the only difference between those configurations. It's just $100 on Newegg for the OEM version of Home Premium.

The problem with the previous versions of the MBP is that they use the Nvidia 8600 and that's a deal breaker for me. Yeah, I know...it's covered under warranty for 2 years, but my luck it would go out right when I was in the middle of a project or out on the road. Besides, I'd hate to send it in to get it fixed. I'm like you, I prefer the older versions (especially the matte screen), but the newer version has a much better GPU... especially if you are into gaming.

http://hothardware.com/News/Apple-Admits-Nvidia-GPU-Defect-in-MacBook-Pros/

jon08 said:

Do you think I should be getting a 3-year warranty extension as well?

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I'm going to I think-although I can get it for less because I qualify for their educational discount. Notebooks have a really high failure rate, so it'll make me feel better, I guess!

And another thing...just need to get this straight: supposing I was to purchase Vista along with that VMWare program. From what I understand VMWare basically lets you run Vista in the background, hence whenever I wished to run a program that would otherwise NOT be compatible with MAC OS I could simply click on a button and the Vista desktop would pop out? And in that way I could run that very program and then hide the Vista desktop and wind up in Mac OS again with that program being open and ready to use?

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Yeah, sort of. You wouldn't want to keep VMWare's program running all the time though, as it would be using RAM and some CPU time. Basically you'd want to shut down Windows and that program if you weren't going to use them for a while.

jon08 said:

Does that GPU defect apply to 256 MB or 512 MB ones? Or both?

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Both.

If such a situation occurs, can you possibly request them to replace the GPU with a newer, better one?

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I doubt it It was supposedly fixed, and a late 2008 last gen Macbook Pro should supposedly be okay, but you'd really have no way of knowing. I do have a coworker who had his system repaired 3 times because of the GPU, but I don't know how common that really is.

jon08 said:

Does that GPU defect apply to 256 MB or 512 MB ones? Or both?

If such a situation occurs, can you possibly request them to replace the GPU with a newer, better one?

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If it's a Nvidia GeForce 8600M GT, then it's affected. If you can find a Macbook Pro that carries something other than the this model, then it's probably okay... but I don't think Apple released anything in the 15" model with a different gpu. Certainly nothing you could find for sale without being used.

Apple will NOT replace a defective card with something else. First off, it's not compatible, and secondly, they just won't do it. When my graphic card went out in my Macpro, I asked them if I could upgrade to the newer card and pay the difference. They flatly refused saying that any warranty service MUST be replaced with the exact same part. No, they will slap in the exact same card hoping it will carry you until the warranty finally runs out.

If you are the type of person who buys a new laptop every couple of years, then this might not be an issue. But don't expect the older model to last. It might... because the card may or may not fail, you are just playing a game of odds. You'll be okay for the first two years while under warranty... but after that, you might have a beautiful doorstop.

Also, I might mention, the new Macbook pros also have the dual gpu that may wind up having SLI enabled in future software updates. That's worth a look.

jon08 said:

If such a situation occurs, can you possibly request them to replace the GPU with a newer, better one?

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it is physically impossible to replace a mobile GPU since it's part of the motherboard.

Do you think I should be getting a 3-year warranty extension as well?

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whether you get an old or new MBP, Applecare is more or less a must.


and just about virtual machines, I use VirtualBox, which is freeware. You should also look into CrossOver, which lets you run Windows applications on OSX.

RE: Nvidia GeForce 8600M GT DEFECT:

Please note that this same issue is cropping up in the new aluminum MB's and MBP's.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1758439&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1754963&tstart=15

My new 2.4 MB has the glitch, and after seeing multiple screenshots of the garbled output occurring in a variety of applications, an Apple tech confirmed that the symptoms are identical to those associated with the 8600M defect.

And if you want my 2 cents, go with option 1.

That sounds like a driver or software issue that's being described here, not anything to do with the 8600 manufacturing defect. And supposedly not all of those were affected, it got fixed (supposedly). Dell and Apple until recently continued shipping notebooks with 8600s, so hopefully they were really fixed.

Also ANY GPU model can have some defective units-but they don't look like what's being described by most of the people in those threads.

Also don't count on being able to use that 9600 and 9400 together. It's still very unclear to me whether that's possible as they aren't the same part, and most of what I've heard says they can't be. And even if they could be, the performance gain would be minimal.

Might be possible though that at some point with like 10.6 or something you'll be able to use the for seperate things-like do encoding on one and use the other for graphics or whatever-not as outside the realm of possibility at least.

eyerot said:

RE: Nvidia GeForce 8600M GT DEFECT:

Please note that this same issue is cropping up in the new aluminum MB's and MBP's.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1758439&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1754963&tstart=15

My new 2.4 MB has the glitch, and after seeing multiple screenshots of the garbled output occurring in a variety of applications, an Apple tech confirmed that the symptoms are identical to those associated with the 8600M defect.

And if you want my 2 cents, go with option 1.

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honestly, it doesn't sound like the same issue. The 8600M GT would fail completely due to heat. This is just bad rendering, and sounds more like a software problem.

When you buy the machine you get one years free AppleCare. Apple also launched a extended repair program because of the GPU, so you get a second year on top of your first all free. If you want to buy the AppleCare extended warranty then you get 3 years.

toxic said:

honestly, it doesn't sound like the same issue. The 8600M GT would fail completely due to heat. This is just bad rendering, and sounds more like a software problem.

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The distortion I am seeing in my display is, according to Apple support, identical to a symptom common in the previous generation of MBP's that was associated with faulty GPUs.

When I sent the screenshots over to the product specialist, my call shot up the customer service chain pretty fast. They seemed more than a little concerned.

I was told on Thursday that engineering wanted a look at my data cap, so I sent them the files. We'll see what they say on Monday.

eyerot said:

The distortion I am seeing in my display is, according to Apple support, identical to a symptom common in the previous generation of MBP's that was associated with faulty GPUs.

When I sent the screenshots over to the product specialist, my call shot up the customer service chain pretty fast. They seemed more than a little concerned.

I was told on Thursday that engineering wanted a look at my data cap, so I sent them the files. We'll see what they say on Monday.

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Can you show us pictures? Because what was being described in those threads doesn't sound like a hardware issue, but you may be having something else going on. (I'm thinking we might be able to point you in the right direction for that.)

jon08 said:

Yeah, I see... Do you know any places with inexpensive AppleCare Protection Plans?

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