Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple Questioned Again About a Mac Netbook

Once upon a time...

Once upon a time, Apple contact the New York Times and other endangered journal to show them a revolutionnary product. The first journal didn't really understood the new product, so Apple turn to the other less popular journal... Then Apple launched the amazing product called ....Book, since then, the first journal filled for bankrupty and the other one is making profits like he never could have dreamed before, with millions of subscriptions, thanks to Apple. Music, HD video, news, GPS, blogs, handwriting recognition... what an amazing product.
 
kas23 said:
Nevertheless, Apple still sells these "useless" mp3 players. So, if Apple is willing to sell something "useless" to their consumers, they may also be willing to sell us some "junk" netbooks.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming he said this at a time where flash memory wasn't anywhere near as capacitive as it is now....
 
Lesser Evets said:
People here have already thought about that. It IS a possibility....

I hope it's a 10" iPT with better computing capabilities and stuff. A 10" iPhone would be ghastly. If they can keep iPhone resolution density, a 10" MaxiPod-Tablet would have the resolution of all the better crap netbooks, but it would be easy to handle and carry and type on using thumbs.

The extra size of the device means there will be more put behind the screen, so I suspect this 10" device will have a lot of nice capabilities compared to a mere iPhone/iPT.
Click to expand...

I agree. You have so much real estate in a larger device, a lot more could actually be placed into it. Given what the potential capabilites the iPhone has it just short of doing what a notebook does anyway....and more.

Generally, when you talk about using a portable computer its not expected that will get all the convienences of a full computer - mainly a full keyboard.
But with the iPhone OS I see some advantages in having a device, mainly touch screen capable of typing a full document, or blogging if needed. The main use of such device should be the ability to keep you connected without having to lug a 3+ pound device with you.
 
how about one of these options.

1. an iphone with a fold out keyboard (yes i no UNLIKELY as fish flying)
2. a larger iphone, i.e. a touchbook
3. smaller iphone for the kids
 
Lesser Evets said:
The extra size of the device means there will be more put behind the screen, so I suspect this 10" device will have a lot of nice capabilities compared to a mere iPhone/iPT.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think it would have mini-tablet specific features so it's not just an iPod touch / iPhone that happens to have a 10" display.

kingtj said:
My initial excitement with my netbook was quickly overshadowed by the reality that it's an exercise in frustration, every time I use it for any length of time. Applications have to constantly be scrolled around because you're too short on screen space. You keep hitting wrong keys if you type too quickly. And on models like mine, battery life isn't that good either, PLUS you have to put up with a charger that's about the same quality as a generic AC adapter/charger for a free cellphone.
Click to expand...
So a netbook has a number of problems…

kas23 said:
For a minute there I thought you were talking about the iPhone. ;)
Click to expand...
…which the iPhone / iPod touch seems to share…

…so a larger than iPod touch device would have a larger display, a bigger keyboard, and a bigger battery than the iPhone / iPod touch, which reduces or eliminates many of those problems.
 
Some Points...

Just some points here:

1) Tablets have had a lot of success in PDA size and a decent amount of success in the 5"-8" sizes as PMPs/ebook readers/vertical market devices. Tablets have pretty much been a failure otherwise.

2) Pixel Qi announced back in December that they were making 10" screens for the netbook market. They're making a new type of screen that's non-reflective, low-power, and it's a touch screen. About a month ago there was the rumor of Apple getting screens of just that size and abilities.

3) Multi-core ARM chips really don't make much sense in an iPhone/Touch (higher power drain), but they make a lot of sense in a netbook (there are several linux ARM netbooks coming out this year). Apple now has a cross-compiler flow to ARM because of the iPhone/Touch, so they'd just have to add the rest of the pieces to run most of MacOS. This would also allow Apple to control an App Store for this.

4) PC netbooks are advancing quicker than Mac most fans realize. Take a look at HP's new business netbook (aluminum, very high quality), MSI's new SSD/HDD combo drive device (reported 25+ hour battery life with 9 cell), Asus's new slimline netbooks, and Sony's Vaio P. These aren't the cheap stuff, with starting around $550, having good quality, and drool worthy looks. Neo, Nano, Atom Z-series, and ION are boosting netbook processing power over the old junk.

5) Because for mobile Apple only sells Desktop Replacements (Macbooks) and low-end Desktop Companions (iPhone/Touch), many Mac fans have trouble seeing the use for a high-end Desktop Companion. Unlike a low-end Desktop Companion, a netbook gives a full desktop experience, runs no-compromise software, has a much larger screen and KB, and can run higher end software in a pinch. Unlike a Desktop Replacement, a netbook is cheaper, usually has better battery life, takes up 1/2 the bag space, and weights 2 to 8 pounds less (really nice for traveling if you don't really need full DR capabilities).

IMHO, Apple will make a netbook with a Pixel Qi 10" screen that rotates onto the KB for use as a tablet. It will have good speakers (for movies) and a webcam. Multi-core ARM. <2lbs. Totally sealed case with non-replaceable battery that gives 8+ hours. Built-in 3G modem, wifi, BT (?), no wired ethernet. 16G or 32G SSD, SD card slot, 2 usb ports. Apps will only be installed from the App Store either by 3G or wifi. $600 & $800 versions, $400 discount w/ contract.
 
kingtj said:
As an ASUS netbook owner myself, who has also used many other offerings on the market, I think most of these netbooks are FAR from the quality I expect from any hardware with Apple's logo on it.

My initial excitement with my netbook was quickly overshadowed by the reality that it's an exercise in frustration, every time I use it for any length of time. Applications have to constantly be scrolled around because you're too short on screen space. You keep hitting wrong keys if you type too quickly. And on models like mine, battery life isn't that good either, PLUS you have to put up with a charger that's about the same quality as a generic AC adapter/charger for a free cellphone.
Click to expand...

I don't know specifically which ASUS netbook you own, but yours sounds like a pretty old one.

If you want to know the trend of netbooks, all you have to do is just watch what ASUS do. Everybody else, except for Sony, has been following their path so far. And the trend is: bigger keyboards and bigger screen. Nobody wants to buy the original Eee PC any longer. The whole netbook market startes as a curiosity, but has transformed into something completely different; people started caring about usability.

They found 7" or 8.9" screens too small. They found the keyboards that came with the older Eee PC hard to use. In other words, netbooks are becoming real computers that people actually use a lot in their real life. Meanwhile, the profit margin for the manufacturers has been shrinking and shrinking.

Netbooks of today are still crap. But unlike their older models, they are USEFUL crap. If you still find netbooks available today unusable, you are in the minority. The keyboard is now almost as big as the regular laptop one. The screen size is tolerable for basic tasks. People spend WAY more time with their netbook than expected, to the point where you don't even know which one their main computer really is, the desktop/laptop on their desk or that netbook on the bedside which they will soon put into their bag to go out with.

This is a huge and very dangerous market. I really understand why Apple is very careful. The whole netbook world has become a monster that ASUS never intended it to be. Netbooks and iPhones/iPod Touch never overlap. They are completely different. People actually type a lot with netbooks, as the keyboard was the #1 issue with them. And the issue has been pretty much solved upon the emergence of 10" netbooks.

Netbooks are here to stay. But that does not mean Apple should just jump into it. They probably shouldn't. They can't play this game. But maybe, they have to find some way to answer the whole thing.

Sony came up with Vaio Type P as their answer to it. I'm not sure if it was a good answer, but I found it very interesting. Sony is another company who couldn't play the same game. Let's see what Apple will come up with.
 
I find the screen too small on netbooks. even at 10 inch 1280x800 is higher PPI than the 17 inch MacBook Pro. I am finding I am using a vnc hack (with slow performance on screen updates) and a 15 dell laptop as the screen just so I can have a screen bigger than 1280x854. 1680x1050 with slow updates is better than 1280x854 with fast updates for me. the dell is heavier and thicker but I use VNC on it to connect to my PB. I really cannot use anything less than 1680x1050 for work anymore. I am waiting for apple to upgrade the 15 inch MacBook Pro to 1680x1050 before I upgrade from my PB. A 15 inch MacBook with a 1680x1050 screen express card and firewire would be fine but there is no 15 inch MacBook.
 
twalk said:
Just some points here:

1) Tablets have had a lot of success in PDA size and a decent amount of success in the 5"-8" sizes as PMPs/ebook readers/vertical market devices. Tablets have pretty much been a failure otherwise...

4) PC netbooks are advancing quicker than Mac most fans realize. Take a look at HP's new business netbook (aluminum, very high quality), MSI's new SSD/HDD combo drive device (reported 25+ hour battery life with 9 cell), Asus's new slimline netbooks, and Sony's Vaio P. These aren't the cheap stuff, with starting around $550, having good quality, and drool worthy looks. Neo, Nano, Atom Z-series, and ION are boosting netbook processing power over the old junk.

5) Because for mobile Apple only sells Desktop Replacements (Macbooks) and low-end Desktop Companions (iPhone/Touch), many Mac fans have trouble seeing the use for a high-end Desktop Companion. Unlike a low-end Desktop Companion, a netbook gives a full desktop experience, runs no-compromise software, has a much larger screen and KB, and can run higher end software in a pinch. Unlike a Desktop Replacement, a netbook is cheaper, usually has better battery life, takes up 1/2 the bag space, and weights 2 to 8 pounds less (really nice for traveling if you don't really need full DR capabilities).

IMHO, Apple will make a netbook with a Pixel Qi 10" screen that rotates onto the KB for use as a tablet. It will have good speakers (for movies) and a webcam. Multi-core ARM. <2lbs. Totally sealed case with non-replaceable battery that gives 8+ hours. Built-in 3G modem, wifi, BT (?), no wired ethernet. 16G or 32G SSD, SD card slot, 2 usb ports. Apps will only be installed from the App Store either by 3G or wifi. $600 & $800 versions, $400 discount w/ contract.
Click to expand...

PC netbooks have been improving in quality, is this the same quality I buy in their $1000+ notebooks, because that quality isn't that great either. A keyboard? something tells me that's not the route apple has in mind for their mobile OS. Which is most likely what this thing would run. 2 USB ports, the Air has 1, so I'd plan on that maybe.

If its a tablet, it will be more like an oversized iPhone with some more power. But surprise me, that's always more fun.
 
mac*jedi*g said:
I agree. You have so much real estate in a larger device, a lot more could actually be placed into it. Given what the potential capabilites the iPhone has it just short of doing what a notebook does anyway....and more.
Click to expand...

Most specifically, I think this new device will have full Bluetooth, so it can pair with a full keyboard and be propped up for faster entry at a desk. But, using fingers it can be used standing or sitting.

Hopefully, if this device is actual, Apple is very aware that their engineering is going to bring extremely strong capabilities to this device over the next 5 years. What we get this year (assumption) will be limited compared to what they can soon engineer into the device as Apple turns most of its design to super compressing computing power. This is the year to make and release something like this, and in 4 or 5 years it will probably be as powerful as a full MacBook/Pro today. If you look at the first iBook clamshell from 10 years ago, it isn't quite as powerful a computer as the iPT on a basic level where they meet similar function. The difference is that the iPT has a lot of stuff trimmed off for form and function.
 
Moof1904 said:
Let's just hope that if they do a netbook it will blow all the other ones out of the water. I do think there's a market for something more powerful than my iPhone but without the cost and power of a laptop but that isn't a flimsy, cheap, POS.
Click to expand...

Exaactly . . It would blow the others out of the water because Apple doesn't rush into things, therefore they get it right the first time. ;) Their argument is space, and size so I'm sure they would do something like make an OLED type of device. I think it would be something like the Kyocera phone concept. It's pocketable and judging by the form factor, has the ability to get things done at the same time.
 

Attachments

  • Newton.jpg
    Newton.jpg
    35 KB · Views: 107
Well, considering that you can get one of the (albeit EULA-violating) modd'ed copies of Leopard and install it on a Dell Mini 9 netbook with pretty much full support, Apple is going to have to respond to this or they may well suffer some negative consequences.

So, here's the thing: We've already got an under-powered, port-stripped, optical-drive-missing Mac laptop. It's called the "MacBook Air". It wouldn't make any sense for Apple to release a netbook with the MacBook Air still in their product line-up. I mean, sure it'd probably be a couple inches' less screen space, but honestly, if Apple sold a netbook at like $499, wouldn't you be a helluva lot more likely to buy that than their $1800 MacBook Air?

I want an optical drive. I want ports. I want more screen space. What I do not want is another feature-stripped Mac, and I doubly-darn well don't want it for a premium price. I can only hope even Steve isn't stupid enough to pull something like that.
 
As an owner of both Mac & PC desktops and laptops . . . I do find utility in owning a Dell Mini 9 (Ubuntu). I bought it specifically to travel with and to have a smallish wifi equiped portable computer to leave around the house, much like having a small transistor radio.

On a trip last month to NJ, the Dell was easy to get through security; gave me 3 hours of video (dvd movies ripped to an 8GB USB drive) and provided a workable alternative to hauling a 15" or 17" laptop around to check mail, download digital photos to and general computer use. On the other hand, my wife did pretty much the same with her 1st gen 16GB Touch. ;)
 
C'mon. You can smell the iPad coming in June. It's an OLED tablet netbook and a jumbo iPod Touch and a giant AppleTV/Mac remote, with built-in 3G which is unlocked by a twin SIM card from AT&T on your existing iPhone plan. It also has GPS and an optional dashboard holder and will be the biggest, baddest turn-by-turn navigator you ever saw.
 
Make me something like the iPhone/iPod Touch but a bit bigger and powerful and you have my money, Apple!
 
Read between the lines, he said that when he looks at the existing netbook market, he sees cramped keyboards, terrible software, junky hardware and very small screens. Thus the Apple version of the netbook would have bigger keyboards, top notch apple software, high quality hardware, and bigger screens. He's not denying they are making a netbook, just that it will be significantly better than what is out there. Apple always does this, takes an existing market and improves on all the things that are wrong with it. I expect to see an Apple netbook that corrects these problems.
 
ARM would be an epic fail

twalk said:
  • Multi-core ARM chips really don't make much sense in an iPhone/Touch (higher power drain), but they make a lot of sense in a netbook (there are several linux ARM netbooks coming out this year). Apple now has a cross-compiler flow to ARM because of the iPhone/Touch, so they'd just have to add the rest of the pieces to run most of MacOS. This would also allow Apple to control an App Store for this.
  • Unlike a low-end Desktop Companion, a netbook gives a full desktop experience, runs no-compromise software, has a much larger screen and KB, and can run higher end software in a pinch. Unlike a Desktop Replacement, a netbook is cheaper, usually has better battery life, takes up 1/2 the bag space, and weights 2 to 8 pounds less (really nice for traveling if you don't really need full DR capabilities).
Click to expand...

In my opinion these two statements are inconsistent. An Apple ARM netbook would be a big mistake - primarily because it gives Apple's App Store another pipeline to your credit card.

Apple's netbook will be a full x64 Atom chip, running full OSX, and will be able to run any off-the-shelf 32-bit or 64-bit OSX application. Not app store Iphone apps, but Office, Photoshop and anything else.

10" screen. Anything less would be marginally useful.
 
Bodhi395 said:
Read between the lines, he said that when he looks at the existing netbook market, he sees cramped keyboards, terrible software, junky hardware and very small screens. Thus the Apple version of the netbook would have bigger keyboards, top notch apple software, high quality hardware, and bigger screens. He's not denying they are making a netbook, just that it will be significantly better than what is out there. Apple always does this, takes an existing market and improves on all the things that are wrong with it. I expect to see an Apple netbook that corrects these problems.
Click to expand...

BANG ! Oh sorry, but you hit the nail right on the head. :D
 
Has anybody ever tried to install Tiger or Leopard on one of the existing netbooks to see how the OS would run on the hardware? I'm sure it's possible using one of the hacked OSX86 or whatever versions out there. Would be kinda cool if OSX could run on one of these systems and take Windows out of the picture for those of us who want a netbook now, but don't wanna use Windows or Linux. Just some thoughts to ponder...
 
MacManiac76 said:
Has anybody ever tried to install Tiger or Leopard on one of the existing netbooks to see how the OS would run on the hardware? I'm sure it's possible using one of the hacked OSX86 or whatever versions out there. Would be kinda cool if OSX could run on one of these systems and take Windows out of the picture for those of us who want a netbook now, but don't wanna use Windows or Linux. Just some thoughts to ponder...
Click to expand...
I'd wait for Snow Leopard to try that. If it delivers on performance boost, it might run pretty well on a crappy netbook. I tried Leopard on my old Mini G4 once (1.42, 32 MB video, 512 MB RAM) and it was laggy as hell, couldn't even handle Dock animations.
 
I love the amazing amount of arrogance and elitest attitude in this thread. Atom equipped netbooks benchmark faster than most computers made just a few years ago; computers that shipped with XP, and cost hundreds more.

Somehow this has turned into a "useless piece of junk". So tell me guys, what did you all use back in those days? Cray?

Sure, some of the netbooks are crap (Asus 1000HD, speaking from experience), but some are well built and serve their purpose very well for a $300-$400 computer that small (such as the Lenovo S10).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back