One More Reason Why Verizion [probably] Won't Get the iPhone

Goona said:
I wonder why Cingular didn't think of this when accepting the iPhone.
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ATT's situation was different from Verizon's:

  • Verizon already had widespread 3G. ATT didn't.
  • Verizon relied on GPS for their (far more accurate) E911 system. ATT used towers.
  • Verizon didn't like screwing customers out of subsidies. ATT apparently didn't care.
  • Verizon didn't like screwing over their sales partners. ATT ... see above.
  • Verizon didn't like losing warranty control. ATT ... see above.
  • Verizon sells a lot of ringtones and music. ATT doesn't.
Apple was talking to Cingular long before they went to Verizon. Either Apple wanted both networks at launch, or they were just using Verizon as a bargaining chip. (Judging from recent Verizon executive comments, Verizon must've thought the latter.)

In either case, when Apple finally gave up on Verizon after trying to get them for a year, Apple bent to Cingular's demand for exclusivity. Cingular gave up almost nothing in return. As an ATT executive put it, "I'm not sure we gave anything. I think [Apple] bent a lot".

PS. No, visual voice mail was not a big change, despite Jobs' ramblings. I've done contract carrier work for almost 15 years now. A far bigger sacrifice for ATT was sidetracking their 3G buildout in order to do EDGE upgrades, although it benefitted everyone.
 
It surprises me how many think that Apple will produce an iPhone which is limited to selling to a small amount of the world market, come on guys CDMA is dead, is not globally adopted, the world moved to GSM over 10 years a go! 4G will still be based on GSM, its the future.
 
kdarling said:
Ah, but you've fallen prey to the usual bogus assumption that sales in the rest of the world justify having only a GSM model.

As has been pointed out in other threads, only a tiny percentage (less than 1%) of available GSM customers outside the USA get an iPhone... whereas almost 10% of ATT customers do. The major buyer market, percentage wise, is clearly the USA at this time.

If 10% of CDMA customers in North America got an iPhone, that would be 13 million sales of a single model, or as many as ALL iPhone models have sold overseas since day one.

Heck, even if only 6% bought one, it'd still be as many as ATT has ever sold.
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Creating a CDMA iPhone right now would be the worst idea ever. Verizon has already announced they're rolling out their new 4G (LTE) network starting next year. AT&T to follow shortly thereafter. Making a phone that won't work on near-future networks is ridiculous (see Sprint and Wi-max (4g) network).

I highly doubt Verizon will get the iPhone. Verizon thinks they are high and mighty cause they can but Alltel and say they have 85 million customers. Even though Alltel is still its own separate entity (awful idea, gonna come back to bite them). Even though it has clearly been seen that having the iPhone would have benefited them, they'll still play hardball. They're getting a Palm WebOS phone early 2010, so not having the iPhone isn't going to kill them. Plus why would you, as a customer, want the damn phone on their network anyway. They have the slowest data speeds of the 3 big networks, and they nickel and dime their customers to death. You better believe they'll charge you extra for visual voicemail and other features that come loaded with the AT&T data plan.

P.S. Verizon 'smartphones' are dumbphones (See Blackberry Storm).
 
nehunte said:
Creating a CDMA iPhone right now would be the worst idea ever. Verizon has already announced they're rolling out their new 4G (LTE) network starting next year. AT&T to follow shortly thereafter. Making a phone that won't work on near-future networks is ridiculous (see Sprint and Wi-max (4g) network).

I highly doubt Verizon will get the iPhone. Verizon thinks they are high and mighty cause they can but Alltel and say they have 85 million customers. Even though Alltel is still its own separate entity (awful idea, gonna come back to bite them). Even though it has clearly been seen that having the iPhone would have benefited them, they'll still play hardball. They're getting a Palm WebOS phone early 2010, so not having the iPhone isn't going to kill them. Plus why would you, as a customer, want the damn phone on their network anyway. They have the slowest data speeds of the 3 big networks, and they nickel and dime their customers to death. You better believe they'll charge you extra for visual voicemail and other features that come loaded with the AT&T data plan.

P.S. Verizon 'smartphones' are dumbphones (See Blackberry Storm).
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As opposed to ATT&T who insteading of nickle and diming their customers come right out and buck and sawbuck their customers.
efore I got the iphone we priced ATT and verizon, for 3 phones and comparable plans verizon was $28 cheaper. Thats a lot of nickles and dimes
 
kdarling said:
ATT's situation was different from Verizon's:

  • Verizon already had widespread 3G. ATT didn't. Verizons 3G is notably faster then ATT
  • Verizon relied on GPS for their (far more accurate) E911 system. ATT used towers. yards compared to miles or towns
  • Verizon didn't like screwing customers out of subsidies. ATT apparently didn't care.
  • Verizon didn't like screwing over their sales partners. ATT ... see above. Many more Verizon dealers near me. ATT few
  • Verizon didn't like losing warranty control. ATT ... see above. To me I have had some issues with ATT phones, if its not on fire in front of the ATT employee the phone is in workingorder. Verizon, if its tech finds anything wrong with it it goes into the gray bin and 20 minutes later there was a workin phone in my hand. I had nothing but excellent customer service from verizons wireless.
  • Verizon sells a lot of ringtones and music. ATT doesn't.
.
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didn't know ATT sold music or ringtones
 
I think that everyone is missing the point... Verizon doesn't have to get the iPhone right now. They are going to start rolling out their 4G network (i believe next year). I think that once its rolled out, Apple would be more than happy to announce their new iPhone "now on the nation's largest, fastest, and most reliable 4G network"
 
bjb.butler said:
I think that everyone is missing the point... Verizon doesn't have to get the iPhone right now. They are going to start rolling out their 4G network (i believe next year). I think that once its rolled out, Apple would be more than happy to announce their new iPhone "now on the nation's largest and most reliable 4G network"
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Four years from now when LTE actually exists anywhere but select cities, sure.
 
ldobson said:
It surprises me how many think that Apple will produce an iPhone which is limited to selling to a small amount of the world market,
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Yeah, that's be as dumb as Apple releasing an EDGE-only phone for just a year, when the rest of the world was 3G, right? Oh ... wait. :rolleyes:

4G will still be based on GSM, its the future.
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If you mean LTE, it is not technically based on GSM.

nehunte said:
I highly doubt Verizon will get the iPhone.
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I actually doubt it as well. But at least people could use decent arguments. Citing GSM is not one of them. Apple has already been through three radio designs, including adding CDMA for 3G. And the market has already proven to be an order of magnitude larger in the USA than overseas.

They're getting a Palm WebOS phone early 2010, so not having the iPhone isn't going to kill them.
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Agreed about the Pre. Also soon the Omina II and the Touch Pro 2. All very decent phones with interesting UIs.

I do agree they nickle and dime on stuff like visual voicemail. Short term profit; long term mistake.

OTOH, Verizon allows VOIP and Slingplayer over 3G. And they believe in selling insurance for their phones.
 
kdarling said:
Yeah, that's be as dumb as Apple releasing an EDGE-only phone for just a year, when the rest of the world was 3G, right? Oh ... wait. :rolleyes:
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Its different because an edge phone would still be usable by every last one of at&t's customers... There is no telling when verizon will have fully rolled out their LTE coverage... Its basically a minimum of 2 years away, and its probably closer to 4~5 by the time they have completely abandoned cdma
 
kdarling said:
And they believe in selling insurance for their phones.
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Ummm I don't think the iPhone would be included. I think that one thing that Apple probably really loves about ATT is all the controll they have. Apple is not like LG or Samsung that allow their carriers to put insurance on theor phones. Apple didn't even let AT&T worker have a discount like they do with the othe phones that AT&T sellls. So Apple had a lot of control with what they wanted their phone to do. So the iPhone was pretty much it's own phone with AT&T just there so you can talk on it lol.

Edit: I forgot to add thay apple would loose a lot of money with a lot of false claims made by people.
 
I wonder if this discussion is indicative of board meetings that probably take place from time to time at Apple and Verizon. To be able to even remotely predict what will happen requires an examination of the reasons that AT&T required exclusivity in the first place. At the end of the term, those reasons will no longer apply. Apple will evaluate whether producing a Vzw compatible phone would be profitable, and Verizon will ask themselves the same if they carried it. If the answer is yes for both then the details can be hammered out.

These articles are written to fuel the debate, and promote
readership. They are valid arguments at the time, but quickly become obsolete.
 
Should be interesting to see the battle between AT&T and Verizon. Lets hope this means some sweet deals for consumers.
 
I find it fascinating that all of you can talk like you know exactly what the story is when all you've done is read the rumors that have circulated the internet ever since we all knew the iPhone was indeed a real product. Not one of you knows what happened in negotiations between Apple, Cingular, or Verizon. Not one of you knows what will happen in the future. Yet this thread rages on.
 
calvy said:
I find it fascinating that all of you can talk like you know exactly what the story is when all you've done is read the rumors that have circulated the internet ever since we all knew the iPhone was indeed a real product. Not one of you knows what happened in negotiations between Apple, Cingular, or Verizon. Not one of you knows what will happen in the future. Yet this thread rages on.
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Just like half the other threads on macrumors.
:D
 
bruinsrme said:
As opposed to ATT&T who insteading of nickle and diming their customers come right out and buck and sawbuck their customers.
efore I got the iphone we priced ATT and verizon, for 3 phones and comparable plans verizon was $28 cheaper. Thats a lot of nickles and dimes
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I work for Best Buy Mobile and know all the plans for all the carriers. AT&T and Verizon voice plan prices are the exact same. So for you to come out $28 cheaper makes no sense whatsoever. The only slight difference is Verizon has more texting options, which could make your plan cheaper if you wanted a lesser texting package. But who seriously doesn't use family unlimited texting with three phone lines anyway?. However, it would by no means result in $28 difference. So you're going to have to fill in the blanks for me.

And if I'm following you correctly, you didn't actually get Verizon. So, then you wouldn't actually understand how they "nickel and dime" since you don't use their service and don't really know anything about it.

All I'm saying is that I personally believe the iPhone would be more expensive on Verizon on a monthly basis, if you have all the same features that comes with the iPhone on AT&T.
 
kdarling said:
OTOH, Verizon allows VOIP and Slingplayer over 3G. And they believe in selling insurance for their phones.
Click to expand...

AT&T allows Slingplayer over 3G on every capable device but the iPhone.

Apple charges AT&T way too much for the iPhone for their third party insurer to cover it, especially after an article recently released exposed the iPhone cost just under $200 to make. So, I doubt Verizon would cover the iPhone under their Asurion insurance either. Best Buy has an insurance plan that is $14.99/month. Surprisingly, a lot of my customers get it.

Since I work for Best Buy Mobile, I get a lot of inside information on what is going on with the networks. I had a gentlemen come in who used to work for AT&T (Now works for a fiber company) tell me that the iPhone is essentially strangling the AT&T networks. He said that they are so strapped for bandwith, that tethering on the iPhone was either really far away or never happening. Our AT&T rep admitted to me that the delay in MMS was due to AT&T having to get more bandwith in all their towers to handle the new data load that MMS on the iPhone would bring. The guy that worked for the fiber company told me he has been putting new fiber into Verizon towers recently and they have a ridiculous amount of extra bandwith.

That really makes me think that Verizon is gearing up for the iPhone, but I just don't think the two companies are going to come to an agreement. I dunno. We can speculate all we want, but we'll just have to wait and see I guess.
 
calvy said:
I find it fascinating that all of you can talk like you know exactly what the story is when all you've done is read the rumors that have circulated the internet ever since we all knew the iPhone was indeed a real product. Not one of you knows what happened in negotiations between Apple, Cingular, or Verizon. Not one of you knows what will happen in the future. Yet this thread rages on.
Click to expand...

I know someone who knows someone who knows.

Does that make it ok?
 
nehunte said:
Creating a CDMA iPhone right now would be the worst idea ever. Verizon has already announced they're rolling out their new 4G (LTE) network starting next year. AT&T to follow shortly thereafter. Making a phone that won't work on near-future networks is ridiculous (see Sprint and Wi-max (4g) network).

I highly doubt Verizon will get the iPhone. Verizon thinks they are high and mighty cause they can but Alltel and say they have 85 million customers. Even though Alltel is still its own separate entity (awful idea, gonna come back to bite them). Even though it has clearly been seen that having the iPhone would have benefited them, they'll still play hardball. They're getting a Palm WebOS phone early 2010, so not having the iPhone isn't going to kill them. Plus why would you, as a customer, want the damn phone on their network anyway. They have the slowest data speeds of the 3 big networks, and they nickel and dime their customers to death. You better believe they'll charge you extra for visual voicemail and other features that come loaded with the AT&T data plan.

P.S. Verizon 'smartphones' are dumbphones (See Blackberry Storm).
Click to expand...

Hmmm....for "working at a Best Buy store" you contradict yourself a lot. I've had both services (switched to AT&T for the iPhone), and in fact AT&T has nickle and dimed me more. Besides, did you not say in a later post that the service plans are the exact same?

You honestly think if Verizon were to get the iPhone they would charge that much more for it's services (i.e. Visual Voicemail). They would get eaten alive for charging more than AT&T. And as you said yourself, they'll probably have the same plan as AT&T, just like they do with ALL their other services.

Verizon can't roll out LTE THAT fast. It'll take them a year or two to actually get it in enough areas. Verizon would never launch a service too soon, it doesn't go with their "nations largest coverage" motto. Besides, its not like the moment LTE comes out Verizon is going to throw the swtich on CDMA. They'd be putting millions of customers in the dark.

Pretty much the only thing holding back the Apple/Verizon thing is Verizon's need to brand and cripple every phone. If they can get that worked out, the iPhone WILL be on Verizon rather soon.

And please....you work at BEST BUY and you get "insider knowledge"....hahahaha. You're the same as anyone else around here. Anything you here is a rumor. Not even the employees at AT&T know what's going down at their own company. Supposedly some guy working at a Best Buy does?

I heard from a guy that used to work at a place with some people who knew the brother of worker at the company....Microsoft is gonna buy Apple!
 
Lol - the whole iPhone coming to Verizon is still being debated? Hilarious! Verizon is crap. "Largest network" or not, their customer service is horrid along with their phones. I know, used to be with them for years. No more. Now fully with AT&T and could not be happier.


iPhone + Verizon = Delusions of Grandeur. Pretty much sums it up.
 
It's a super cereal RUMOR!

beamer8912 said:
Hmmm....for "working at a Best Buy store" you contradict yourself a lot. I've had both services (switched to AT&T for the iPhone), and in fact AT&T has nickle and dimed me more. Besides, did you not say in a later post that the service plans are the exact same?

You honestly think if Verizon were to get the iPhone they would charge that much more for it's services (i.e. Visual Voicemail). They would get eaten alive for charging more than AT&T. And as you said yourself, they'll probably have the same plan as AT&T, just like they do with ALL their other services.

Verizon can't roll out LTE THAT fast. It'll take them a year or two to actually get it in enough areas. Verizon would never launch a service too soon, it doesn't go with their "nations largest coverage" motto. Besides, its not like the moment LTE comes out Verizon is going to throw the swtich on CDMA. They'd be putting millions of customers in the dark.

Pretty much the only thing holding back the Apple/Verizon thing is Verizon's need to brand and cripple every phone. If they can get that worked out, the iPhone WILL be on Verizon rather soon.

And please....you work at BEST BUY and you get "insider knowledge"....hahahaha. You're the same as anyone else around here. Anything you here is a rumor. Not even the employees at AT&T know what's going down at their own company. Supposedly some guy working at a Best Buy does?

I heard from a guy that used to work at a place with some people who knew the brother of worker at the company....Microsoft is gonna buy Apple!
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Do you know what "contradiction" is? If you paid any attention, I mentioned that I have had both AT&T and Verizon, and have experienced them both firsthand. In that time, and the time that I have sold phones and set up plans, Verizon charges for a few extra things that AT&T includes in their data plans. Not that AT&T doesn't do it, Verizon just does it more. I see it EVERYDAY! And no, I didn't say "service plans" were the same, I said voice plans were the same.

No, I don't think that Verizon will be "eaten alive" for charging more. They are the most expensive network to be on now, and it hasn't hurt them at all. But for that higher cost to the customer, they provide the best customer service and have the largest and most dependable network. So it's not as if its a huge ripoff, just comes at a higher cost.

I completely agree with you on the Verizon LTE network and the Verizon branding part.

As much as you don't like it, I do get to hear and see some things that the average person doesn't in regard to the wireless industry. It's part of working in the industry. I can't say that I know more about the industry that you work in, it's just not possible. And by the way, when did I ever state anything about the iPhone coming to Verizon as a fact. It's all a rumor. That's the point of this whole forum, to discuss the rumor!
 
nehunte said:
Do you know what "contradiction" is? If you paid any attention, I mentioned that I have had both AT&T and Verizon, and have experienced them both firsthand. In that time, and the time that I have sold phones and set up plans, Verizon charges for a few extra things that AT&T includes in their data plans. Not that AT&T doesn't do it, Verizon just does it more. I see it EVERYDAY! And no, I didn't say "service plans" were the same, I said voice plans were the same.
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You're "knowledge of mobile plans" can be looked up on either of there sites. I've been a customer and have "seen the bill" of both providers. AT&T charged more than Verizon.

No, I don't think that Verizon will be "eaten alive" for charging more. They are the most expensive network to be on now, and it hasn't hurt them at all. But for that higher cost to the customer, they provide the best customer service and have the largest and most dependable network. So it's not as if its a huge ripoff, just comes at a higher cost.
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Then if its superior service (the way you argue it), no one will care they pay extra for visual voicemail. Hence your nickle and dime point is moot.


As much as you don't like it, I do get to hear and see some things that the average person doesn't in regard to the wireless industry. It's part of working in the industry. I can't say that I know more about the industry that you work in, it's just not possible. And by the way, when did I ever state anything about the iPhone coming to Verizon as a fact. It's all a rumor. That's the point of this whole forum, to discuss the rumor!
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Except, you don't work in the industry. You work at best buy, and you're source is a guy "who used to work for a company". The same guy could talk to anyone about it. When was the last time Apple "leaked" anything to Best Buy?

As much as you don't like it, you're not some kind of industry insider. You work at best buy and you hear the same rumors everyone else does.
 
beamer8912 said:
You're "knowledge of mobile plans" can be looked up on either of there sites. I've been a customer and have "seen the bill" of both providers. AT&T charged more than Verizon.



Then if its superior service (the way you argue it), no one will care they pay extra for visual voicemail. Hence your nickle and dime point is moot.




Except, you don't work in the industry. You work at best buy, and you're source is a guy "who used to work for a company". The same guy could talk to anyone about it. When was the last time Apple "leaked" anything to Best Buy?

As much as you don't like it, you're not some kind of industry insider. You work at best buy and you hear the same rumors everyone else does.
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You're super jealous. I can sense it.
 
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