'09 Mac Mini vs. My '10 MBP

Discussion in 'Mac mini' started by txnoob, May 24, 2010.

  1. txnoob macrumors 6502

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    Mar 12, 2009
    #1
    I just got a new MBP about 2 weeks ago. I love it, absolutely the best laptop I have ever owned, and the FASTEST computer I do own. But here's my question. I have a '09 Mini with 2.0Ghz C2D running 10.5.8. So the only difference is 400mhz, and the OS. But my MBP just seems significantly faster in ever operation. I'm doubting it has anything to do with the processor speed. So is Snow Leopard really that much more speedy? :eek:
     
  2. Jason Beck macrumors 68000

    Jason Beck

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    Oct 19, 2009
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    #2
    if you have a new MBP then you have a new video chipset and the 400mhz difference, and yes SL is getting speedier every update.
    If you got anything above a 13" MBP then you also have a different CPU.
     
  3. txnoob thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Mar 12, 2009
    #3
    Just the 13" but still, I'm just very impressed, and sad at the same time. Time to fork over the $30 for SL.:D
     
  4. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #4
    It might be OS Rot... it's frequent with Windows systems, but it happens to OS X too.
     
  5. aiqw9182 macrumors 65816

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    Apr 22, 2010
    #5
    Check how much HDD space you have left. If you are really low on space on the Mini then that is the reason.
     
  6. indg macrumors 6502

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    Feb 7, 2007
    #6
    your new mbp is faster because:
    a) it has faster hardware specs
    b) you haven't installed anything on it; no additional background agents/daemons
    c) its hdd is defragmented out of the box
    d) all of the above

    use onyx or some other system utility to clean caches, run maintenance scripts, rebuild font cache, rebuild spotlight index, update prebinding, etc.

    use lingon to see what user agents and daemons are running. kill any unnecessary or orphaned processes.

    use a disk defragment tool like idefrag to optimize your hdd. your hdd is the biggest bottleneck to performance.

    simply upgrading to 10.6 isn't a magic cure.
     
  7. belltree macrumors 6502

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    Tokyo, Japan
    #7
    Is this true? I had thought that one of the benefits of OS X compared to Windows was it's lack of a registry and resulting OS rot. I know that crap does accumulate in the libraries folder but that's about it I thought.
     
  8. TMRaven macrumors 68020

    TMRaven

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #8
    More free space an hdd has the faster it will perform.
     
  9. aiqw9182 macrumors 65816

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    Apr 22, 2010
    #9
    Not really. He's just spreading FUD. I know multiple people who have Macs from over 3+ years ago and they are running like they did on day one. The only time I have seen a Mac get slower is when you start getting low on HDD space.
     
  10. dyn macrumors 68030

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    .nl
    #10
    To people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about this is FUD. To anybody who actually thinks about it, it is making a lot of sense. OS X does not have any uninstallers, it's up to the software builder to include something like that and most don't. This will cause a lot of pollution because things like launchagents, pref files, etc. are not removed upon deleting the application. When using things like macports this can cause additional pollution of the filesystem (check the manual, there is an autoclean option). Such leftovers normally don't cause any problems, they just sit there taking up space. Sometimes those leftovers can actually harm the system and cause some problems (which you can check in Console).

    The above is the main reason why tools like AppCleaner, Onyx and OS X's own maintenance scripts (daily, weekly and monthly) exist. It's also the reason why some software builders put uninstallers next to the installer in the dmg. OS X's own maintenance scripts run at certain times (past midnight) but can be triggered manually by using tools like Onyx or simply by running them from the command line (Terminal). AppCleaner and the like will delete pref files and such whenever you delete an app by putting it in the trash. However this does not always remove everything, sometimes launchagents are not removed.

    It's not something you really need to worry about. Throwing away pref files when deleting the app is also very useful when you delete it because you want to fix some problem with the app. In case of the topicstart this has absolutely nothing to do with OS rot or any other slowdowns with the Mac mini. The mid 2010 MBP simply is an awful lot faster. It's not about how many MHz faster but about how fast it handles threads and things like that. MHz do not matter any more, it's about what it can do in every MHz. I have a Mac mini early 2009 with the 2 GHz C2D, 4 GB of RAM and a ssd. It's a snappy little machine. My mid 2010 MBP is the cheapest 15" version but I upped the RAM to 8 GB, it has the same ssd as the mini has. The machine is unbelievably faster than the Mac mini, simply because the Core i5 is incredibly fast compared to the C2D. Especially the improved virtualisation support in the Core i5 makes a lot of difference in my case (as well as the 8 GB of RAM). The TS does not have this Core i5 cpu but his C2D is faster than his Mac mini's as is his IGP (the 320M). In other words: the mid '10 MBP simply is a faster machine than the Mac mini '09.
     
  11. aiqw9182 macrumors 65816

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    Apr 22, 2010
    #11
    The main reason why those tools exist is for paranoid people. Leaving those preference and plist files there will not "rot" your system which is what the person I replied to was talking about. If cleaning OSX was so mandatory like removing these plist files then Apple would have included a tool that would do so. They might take up a decent amount of space which could lead to low space on the HDD, but other than that they have no harm on the operating system performance. The only way they could lead to some sort of negative OS performance is if they are always running, and even then you can easily check what is and isn't running.
     
  12. txnoob thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Mar 12, 2009
    #12

    Fair enough. I really coudln't believe the benchmarks between the to GPUs. The 320M just blows the 9400 away. Is AppCleaner an automated program? I have about 50GB free on the factory 120GB hd. I just cloned the drive to a 7200RPM 250GB drive, but if it's all bogged down with crap, I may want to do a fresh install.
     
  13. idonotliketostu macrumors 6502

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    #13
    400mhz is a 20% increase. That's huge sir, huge.
     
  14. aiqw9182 macrumors 65816

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    #14
    AppCleaner is garbage and leaves files behind. If you want a good uninstaller application then get AppDelete.
     
  15. txnoob thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Mar 12, 2009
    #15
    Granted, for processor intensive functions, yes you're right. But when I'm browsing the internet on a P4 2.4ghz or P4 2.0ghz, all other specs the same, I notice no difference. 400Mhz doesn't make my email open any faster. So yes, I realize that it's sustancial, but not going to make movement within programs or the OS seem significantly different. You can BARELY tell the difference between my G4 1.25gz w/ 2GB of Ram on Tiger with my friends 2.0Ghz Core Duo Macbook with 2GB of Ram on Tiger when it comes to Safari or iPhoto.

    I think that SL and the GPU are the biggest factors.
     
  16. dyn macrumors 68030

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    .nl
    #16
    What part about the daily, weekly and monthly maintenance script did you not understand? Those are OS X's own scripts that run to do some system maintenance. You need to have to run those because one of the things it does is rotate the logfiles. If you don't do this you'll end up with huge logfiles that hog down the system.

    Leftover plists can cause other problems when you reinstall the software. The reason they're not removed in the first place is because of this, you can install the software again without losing your settings. Due to differences between versions this can cause strange problems. In the ssd age you want to have a clean as possible drive because of the performance degradation that sets in when the drive fills up.

    Again, plist files are just one of the examples given, there are quite a lot of other things in OS X that can cause problems when not taken care of (like logfiles).

    It has a monitoring process running in the back that monitors the system for deletion of apps. Whenever you delete an app it will locate corresponding files and prompt a dialog where you can deselect everything you do not want to remove (so if you want to leave the plist files simply deselect them). When you confirm the selection it will put everything that was selected in the trash. The automation is the monitoring process running in the background.

    Cloning installations and putting them on new hardware is quite known for things like that, especially when you've cloned the installation a couple of times. You might call that OS rot too. A fresh install might do wonders in this case. Whenever I get a new machine I see this as a great opportunity to check my current installation and do a bit of a cleanup. Mostly I'll partially restore the system (applications and settings, sometimes just applications) and go from there.

    AppDelete is as much garbage as AppCleaner because all of these apps leave things behind. That's why the corresponding developers put a warning about this in their disclaimers. However, AppCleaner is freeware, AppDelete isn't. Since these applications never cleanup everything there is, it's a bit of a waste to pay for it. The reason why they leave files on the system has to do with things like filenames, the information they have about what files went where and user rights. Those apps are not foolproof.
     
  17. aiqw9182 macrumors 65816

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    Apr 22, 2010
    #17
    If these were mandatory scripts to use every week Apple would've made their existence more apparent. Rotating log files will not improve performance as drastically as the OP was talking about anyway.

    In the SSD age Apple should have TRIM support so this wouldn't be a problem. Anyone buying an SSD that plans to run it on Mac OS X is just wasting their money, the drive will die sooner than later regardless.

    Logs, application support folders and plist files will not "rot" the system. They will take up space which *could* lead to slowness, but other than that they are harmless to the systems performance.

    AppDelete is the best of these uninstaller apps, you get what you pay for. The only time I've had AppDelete miss something is for a couple of oddly named application support folders. When I used AppCleaner prior it left so much **** behind it was useless. Oh and even specific application uninstallers can miss ****. Glims is one example.
     
  18. txnoob thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Mar 12, 2009
    #18

    OKAY - SO....can reinstall/cleanup Leopard without having to reinstall all my apps?
     
  19. Keleko macrumors 68000

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    Mar 26, 2008
    #19
    Does your MBP have more memory than your Mini? That's definitely going to make the MBP faster because it can cache more in RAM. That's aside from the faster processor.
     
  20. txnoob thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #20
    See signature
     
  21. dyn macrumors 68030

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    .nl
    #21
    From a lot of experience I can tell you that cleaning up logfiles has a huuuuuuge impact on things like disk space and performance. I've seen servers refusing to work just because logfiles grew out of proportions. In case of a problem somewhere on the system this can cause logfiles to be filled rapidly. If logfiles are indeed a problem on your Mac you should investigate a little bit further because mostly it is caused by some sort of problem that is filling up the logs.

    There is no need for TRIM. I don't think TRIM is the proper solution, the NAND Launderer that is used before it even became available should be the way to go. Why? Because it is an OS independent system inside the ssd that always works. TRIM is part of the ATA spec and you need hardware and software to implement the new ATA spec. It just depends on too much stuff. TRIM is not a silver bullet as you seem to think. In fact, TRIM is worse than the NAND Launderer in some cases. In the end TRIM and NAND Launderer can not and will not stop or prevent the ssd from slowing down. If you fill the ssd it will be slow no matter what technology is being used. It is simply a defect in the current memory chips which can not be overcome. We need a redesigned memory chip, not TRIM or NAND Launderer to solve this problem.

    Unfortunately performance problems are not directly caused by such things. Logfiles and plists can cause other problems which in turn can cause other things which in the end can cause performance problems as well as a lot of other things. Performance is not the only problem you get from OS rot. Also, files that no are no longer needed litter the OS, that alone can account for OS rot. The upgrade from Tiger to Leopard a lot of people tried to do mostly ended up in a lot of trouble due to OS rot. People had a lot of leftover plists, launchagents, etc. that caused a lot of troubles because they were incompatible with the new OS. One of the main causes was an application called APE. Some apps installed APE as a dependency but didn't remove it if the user uninstalled the app. APE was incompatible with Leopard and caused a lot of trouble such as system lockups. They could cause similar problems with other software (aka interfere with other apps).

    Yep, there is no fool proof application which is what I already stated. That's why paying for such an app is not something I'd do. Most apps only have a plist and just the .app dir. Delete those and it's gone. Apps that use an uninstaller are hard to remove because things can be in use and you may need to authenticate. Such things can not be removed by applications like AppDelete or AppCleaner, paying or using such apps for this would be completely pointless.
     
  22. txnoob thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Mar 12, 2009
    #22

    So where would you begin? I'd really like to try somehting that does not involve reinstalling the OS. I thought this was some great feature of OSX, that you don't have these issues, or to the same degree as windows. If I can do some manual clean up, what files would I be looking at, and where are they located? I just have so much software I don't want to have to reinstall.
     

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