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1.33 ibook vs. 1.33 pb
- Thread starter CaptainCaveMann
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maya
macrumors 68040
mcgarry said:
However you have to factor in that Core Image asks for a minimum of 64Meg Graphic Card and lets face it Mac OS X asks for a minimum of 128Megs however we ALL know that Mac OS X is dog slow with 128Megs of ram and 512 is far better. Do you feel Core Image is any better, ask yourself if you go to an Apple store the demo Macs have at least 512Megs of ram what do you think the Apple Expo Mac's running or demonstrating Core Image are using 64Meg Graphic Cards, think again they are using a minimum 128Meg graphic card. The iMac G5 will slog trying to do anything with Core Image you will see a tad performance however not worth it until you have a 128Meg GPU in there. Have you also realized that the 12" PB and so forth have 64Meg GPU standard do you think Core Image is going to scream on those machine you are living in a Dream, that is why Apple gives you the option of a 128 GPU upgrade for the High End Portable users.
We already have GPU cards that don't have fully optimized drivers what makes you so sure that Core Image will save everything. I will say one thing its a great technology no doubt about it however don't expect miracles to happen if it runs slow its not worth using IMHO as for resale value it does matter. You can either buy a Toyota with a better resale value or buy a Ferrari that drops in value like the Titanic. You are better off taking the Ferrari for a test drive and get it out of your system. 🙄
Same can be said for x86 hardware they drop in value a lot, Apple on the other hand there is a stopping point if you spend less you are bound to loose next they top of the line is great if you are a business however as a consumer its terrible look back at history those ppl who bought MDD 1.2 GHz can now be had in an iBook given the system bus and ram are a tad slow however for what its worth you are getting a great screen with the 12" model, world portability, battery life, WiFi, and all in a small sleek package. I work on large and I mean close to 1gig PS files and this little machine kicks at it since I have maxed out the ram, I can either get features with a PowerBook a bit better CPU, a tab higher ram rating and systembus and pay big time and not sit with 512 ram or I can buy an iBook and max it all out in the end I am spending a FRACTION of the cost of a pro line and they are almost neck and neck. What the PowerBook has today the iBook will have tomorrow that is pretty much a given and at present it doesn't seem Apple is jumping on innovation with its portable line at the high-end, So go ahead and live in denial that you payed more for something that a low end product will get. I learnt my lesson a long time back I can either buy an iBook or eMac and update at a faster rate and keep up with advances at a small loss or buy the top end now take a hit to the pocket and then wait for some years to upgrade once again while taking a bigger loss.
You do the math. Saving .07 seconds on an mp3 encode as a consumer or spend 1+ k USD to gain .03 seconds from that. Simple economics as a consumer if you are a professional then cost would not be of any issue. 🙂
mcgarry
macrumors 6502a
The iBook and the PowerBook are BOTH great computers. But the fact is, if they cost the same, almost everyone would pick the PowerBook. It is a superior machine, on paper, by any measurement except for subjective aesthetic factors. Is the PowerBook a better value? Probably not, unless you need or want its features. BUT the price differences are not as great as has been said here. Here's the 14" iBook compared to the 15" PowerBook 1.5 GHz (of course 1.33 would be even cheaper):
14" iBook 1.33GHz with 512MB = 1674
15" PBook 1.5GHz with 512MB and 5400rpm HD option = 2549.
So what does the $875 get you?
- slightly bigger screen, widescreen resolutions
- better, faster video card with twice the VRAM
- official support for non-mirrored external displays
- faster HD
- faster processor, faster system bus, faster RAM
- backlit keyboard
- aluminum case is less thick
- gigabit ethernet
- FireWire 800
- PC Card slot
- audio line-in
- built-in Bluetooth ($50 option in iBook)
For some people, that's $875 well-spent. For others it isn't. That's why there are two laptop lines. Also, the educational discount is greater on the current PowerBooks, probably reflecting their proximity to an update. So the price difference would narrow. And of course, with MWSF coming up, a wait might be in order in any case.
Still, the questions whose answers may lead to a PowerBook purchase could be as simple as "do you want to be able to display to an external non-mirrored display without voiding your warranty," or "do you want to be able to use FW800 peripherals," and so on. Certainly, a lot of people who want Mac laptops don't need these things. If not, certainly buy the cheaper computer that suits your needs. Tthe iBooks are great computers. But their most important feature-- and the only one they have that the PowerBooks don't-- is the lower price.
Lastly, resale values are meaningless if you never re-sell, and in any case highly unpredictable. And yes, something that starts off worth more has more room to fall.
14" iBook 1.33GHz with 512MB = 1674
15" PBook 1.5GHz with 512MB and 5400rpm HD option = 2549.
So what does the $875 get you?
- slightly bigger screen, widescreen resolutions
- better, faster video card with twice the VRAM
- official support for non-mirrored external displays
- faster HD
- faster processor, faster system bus, faster RAM
- backlit keyboard
- aluminum case is less thick
- gigabit ethernet
- FireWire 800
- PC Card slot
- audio line-in
- built-in Bluetooth ($50 option in iBook)
For some people, that's $875 well-spent. For others it isn't. That's why there are two laptop lines. Also, the educational discount is greater on the current PowerBooks, probably reflecting their proximity to an update. So the price difference would narrow. And of course, with MWSF coming up, a wait might be in order in any case.
Still, the questions whose answers may lead to a PowerBook purchase could be as simple as "do you want to be able to display to an external non-mirrored display without voiding your warranty," or "do you want to be able to use FW800 peripherals," and so on. Certainly, a lot of people who want Mac laptops don't need these things. If not, certainly buy the cheaper computer that suits your needs. Tthe iBooks are great computers. But their most important feature-- and the only one they have that the PowerBooks don't-- is the lower price.
Lastly, resale values are meaningless if you never re-sell, and in any case highly unpredictable. And yes, something that starts off worth more has more room to fall.
maya
macrumors 68040
mcgarry said:
Why do you not compare the 12" iBook and PowerBooks there have the same screen and are on the same PORTABLE level with same screen resolution. I shall leave this NEW comparison to you, please not the SD model since the 12" iBook does not have that option at present, gee I wonder why Apple. 🙄
mcgarry
macrumors 6502a
I didn't compare the 12" because the original poster in this thread was comparing the 14" iBook to the 15" PowerBook.
As for 12" vs. 12", I won't bother with the details because the facts remain the same: the PowerBook (even the 12") has extra features (see previous posts), but costs more, and may be updated soon. That's all I've been saying all along.
As for 12" vs. 12", I won't bother with the details because the facts remain the same: the PowerBook (even the 12") has extra features (see previous posts), but costs more, and may be updated soon. That's all I've been saying all along.
maya is one heck of a dedicated mac user!
thanks!
why didn't you do this before i got my 12in powerbook?
= ( 🙄 🙁
thanks!
why didn't you do this before i got my 12in powerbook?
= ( 🙄 🙁
maya
macrumors 68040
Jdm_rsx said:
I have been asked by mcgarry to put an end to it right here so being a good sport I shall. 🙂
It honestly all matters the PowerBooks have not been updated for a while and if you are considering buying one wait till after MWSF 2005 there is bound to be some sort of announcement if not i feel sorry for for those later buyers. The buyers who bought in April 2004 must live it since it indeed extends they purchase for a bit not too long though.
mcgarry, also stated that you wanted the 15" PB and as for the iBook line there is none so if you are looking for anything other than a 12" PB is the way unless you don't need the ports and don't have the money.
As for me it was simple I needed a 12" for portable reason:
Screen resolution was key, size, battery life, ruggedness, WiFi.
Price was not really an issue and since I have no need for a DVD burner since the ones in portable take ~27mins to burn a single layer 4.4Gig disk it was not worth the money since I can get them burned professionally for less than 5 CAD and I don't burn DVD's often. It was simple will I be using it on a daily bases or do I only want it for the one time I have a fit to burn a DVD for the heck of it.
I see little use for BlueTooth, its terrible IMO as of current slow, unstable at times and I already have a secure USB link for my mobile.
I do not care too much for a BT keyboard or mouse as I like the laptop keyboard and track pad better (don't have to mouse my hand just finger 🙂 ).
Before I also compared the 12" models of both lines I also did a break down of the parts that are in both models and the 12" iBook won hands down I can invest as little and get more out of it then to invest more into the 12" powerbook and have it run slow with minimal ram.
Since I have been using Mac's and Portables in general for a long time I realize that under any OS RAM and lots of it is key and quite frankly have a powerbook 12" was not worth it.
I also have a very old PowerBook with all the ports for audio-in and it still works great so this time around I did not need the options for all. I have yet to see a consumer try to do an audio feed in to a notebook in the field, ppl can find other cheaper options for this.
Jdm_rsx, if you want the break down of components listed for the 12" iBook I have no problems to post it up here or PM me instead I will even give you the resale value of the PowerBooks that came out in April (note it will still be high since the PowerBook has not been updated unless you want me to give you a price after MWSF 2005).
Lets end this discussion at this point. 🙂
aCTUALLY no one really cares about that part but yes i do notice it..
now that u have just mentioned it..
in a way powerbook is just too expensive for the picky ppl and just overall good for me to use ..
= )
now that u have just mentioned it..
in a way powerbook is just too expensive for the picky ppl and just overall good for me to use ..
= )
Bern
macrumors 68000
Raven VII said:
I've had 2 PowerBooks (the latest was the Rev C) and let me tell you those cases are very very easy to dent, warp or buckle. Nothing is worse than having such a beautiful laptop that cost that money but with a big dent or buckle in it.
This happened to my PowerBooks and I treat my Macs very well, and when you take that dented PowerBook in for a warranty covered repair (say hardware failure of some kind for example) Apple will just blame the cause of the dent and your warranty won't mean squat.
I replaced my Rev C PowerBook with the latest 12" iBook and put the 1GB stick from the PowerBook into my new iBook. The iBook performs flawlessly. I do digital art in Corel painter IX, PS and Illustrator with no problems. My iBook travels everywhere with me, has longer battery life, better wifi, and is far more rugged.
When PowerBooks become G5 or until Apple change the case I'll always stick with the iBooks.
maya
macrumors 68040
pianojoe said:
Are you incapable of carrying some weight around what do you have on you a PDA, Mobile, Laptop, paper work, iPod, ?
Curious how much does all this way how big of a difference is 20% thinner or an ounce lighter really matter. You body actually is built to carry weight the more you try to lift up that burned the worse it is for you.
I have yet to figure out why people complain about notebook weight its not a Dell brick that weight close to 10 pounds a few ounces or 0.20 inches does not make any difference. What next your clothes are also too heavy for you. PAleeeeeeeeezzzzz 🙄
Maybe you should workout at a GYM and it would not be a problem and I am neither male and I have no problems with the weight so why are you complaining. 🙄
maya
macrumors 68040
Bern said:
Thanks you seems some people do think logically. 🙂
People keep saying PB this PB that what about WiFi signal and strength which the iBook has hands down its a laptop and the first thing it has to me is very portable, rugged, great signal strength and battery life to me the iBook says portable the powerbook is trying to have the power however falls short and the rest are just the powerbook tripping on itself trying to justify its cost. 🙂
People be happy that your hard earned money is profiting Apple if you actually bought Apple bargains you would not have a chip on your shoulder. 🙂
LOL with the new iBook if there have some new crazy dual core chip 2 years from now I will have no regrets to give this fine machine to a family member. If it were a PowerBook I would kick myself for falling that high.
I can't speak to the 12" powerbooks (which I believe *are* a bit too close to the iBooks in features right now), but I for one am quite happy that I got a 15" powerbook recently.
The iBook is a better deal for some people, particularly people who are using their computer in "normal" ways -- word documents, surfing, light powerpoint and photo editing. The powerbook is better if you spend a large proportion of your time doing media work. I do a lot of audio and video work on my powerbook, and need to show my work to clients and collaboraters. The screen resolution makes a big difference to me, and so does the screen brightness. I can actually fit all the palettes when i work in FCP or Photoshop or Peak. For me, the price difference makes sense. For others, perhaps not.
All this to say: the original poster should certainly not feel bad about buying the powerbook. It's a great machine. The iBook is good, also, but it is not for everyone, just as the powerbook is not for everyone. That's why there are two lines.
Sure, I'd rather have a dualcore G4 or G5 powerbook. When that happens it will certainly delineate the two lines to a greater extent. But if I'd waited then I wouldn't have been able to put on the live video opera that I did last week. I would have had to wait six months or a year. You buy a computer when you need to, and not before. You figure out which features you need, which ones would be nice, and which would be superfluous. You figure out your budget. And then you decide which one works for you. If you have the money, maybe you get a powerbook just because you like the way it looks more.
For what it's worth: I totally love my 15" powerbook. It's fast, sleek and powerful. More so than the G4 iBooks that I tried. I had hit a wall with my old G3 iBook, and now I can do work that I couldn't before. I also know that the iBook was totally fine for me in every area except for video and to a lesser extent audio.
Chill, out, people. To each their own. It's silly to argue that either the iBook or the powerbook is the solution to every problem. They're both good computers which fulfill different needs.
The iBook is a better deal for some people, particularly people who are using their computer in "normal" ways -- word documents, surfing, light powerpoint and photo editing. The powerbook is better if you spend a large proportion of your time doing media work. I do a lot of audio and video work on my powerbook, and need to show my work to clients and collaboraters. The screen resolution makes a big difference to me, and so does the screen brightness. I can actually fit all the palettes when i work in FCP or Photoshop or Peak. For me, the price difference makes sense. For others, perhaps not.
All this to say: the original poster should certainly not feel bad about buying the powerbook. It's a great machine. The iBook is good, also, but it is not for everyone, just as the powerbook is not for everyone. That's why there are two lines.
Sure, I'd rather have a dualcore G4 or G5 powerbook. When that happens it will certainly delineate the two lines to a greater extent. But if I'd waited then I wouldn't have been able to put on the live video opera that I did last week. I would have had to wait six months or a year. You buy a computer when you need to, and not before. You figure out which features you need, which ones would be nice, and which would be superfluous. You figure out your budget. And then you decide which one works for you. If you have the money, maybe you get a powerbook just because you like the way it looks more.
For what it's worth: I totally love my 15" powerbook. It's fast, sleek and powerful. More so than the G4 iBooks that I tried. I had hit a wall with my old G3 iBook, and now I can do work that I couldn't before. I also know that the iBook was totally fine for me in every area except for video and to a lesser extent audio.
Chill, out, people. To each their own. It's silly to argue that either the iBook or the powerbook is the solution to every problem. They're both good computers which fulfill different needs.
maya
macrumors 68040
betsbillabong said:
Okay lets get one thing straight the 12" lcd panels that are being used int eh iBook and Pb line are the SAME, as in same everything right down to brightness. All the PB lines have the SAME brightness factor you cannot have the 17" and 15" models with a better brightness rating than the 12" PB. That said the 12" iBook screen is on PAR with the PB 12" screen, Apple is not buying a low grade LCD just because the iBook is a consumer model. 🙄
Second the 9200 is a better card then the 5200 GO, however lack of video ram is the only reason why its a step back in that dept, I wonder why Apple would do it. 🙄
Third, I use my iBook 12" for imaging, audio editing, text, surfing, emailing, and some light to medium weight video editing, heck I also work on 3D projects on it. If you want to work on video get an iMac G5 if you need portable i suggest you wait. Yes the 2 lines are very close together why do you think Apple is not offering the SuperDrive in the 12" iBook since once they do the 12" PB is doomed. The ram rating and systemBUS rating is very little compared to the iBook the only other advantage is more Video Ram and I feel this is done on purpose if the 9200 with 64 ram was in the iBook I would like to see that 5200 GO with 64 match up. What if you compared both GPU with the same amount of ram.
too equal the systemBUS, Video RAM, and ram rating I suggest one does a test with a 12" iBook with 640-768 ram installed and a PowerBook 12" with 512 ram installed. That should grant PAR results. If the 12" PB has a 1Meg cache then the iBook would be behind with the 512K cache however that is not so. That is the benefit that the G3 PB had over the G3 colour iBooks.
Chances are after MWSF 2005 the 12" iBook will be over priced and the 12" iBook might even have a BTO for a SuperDrive come March-April 2005. Hold on to your 12" PB its basically an over priced 12" iBook. 🙂
For those who keep saying Core Image well come next year the new iBooks should have 64 meg video ram standard for Tiger and guess how much I would loose on a 12" iBook maxed out only 1500 CAD guess how much a new iBook will cost in march-april 2005 with Tiger and Core Image compatibility most likely another 1500 CAD or less I can take the ram slot out of my now iBook and only spend 1300 CAD, so how much did I spend 2800 CAD total for 2 iBooks while the 12" iBook people call say size and weight however they do not have ruggedness and excellent AirPort strength will cost them lets see 2099 (not maxed out) lets see in March-April I will have 2 12" iBooks for 701 more than your one 12" PB, I can connect these 2 12" iBooks and off load 3D rendering to speed it up. 🙂 Try running doing that with a 12" PB. 🙂
if you are buying anything larger than a 12" portable and need portable buy a 15" PB middle model the rest of the PB line is way over priced. If you want a larger screen buy an external LCD and use the screen spanning feature that the PB has.
17" PB cost 3699 CAD, 17" low end iMac G5 cost 1749 CAD....how much do you think the same 17" screen costs the PB does not have some special LCD screen. You are spending 1950 on out dated internal on the PB 17" in a small package and most of that is Apple profit.
Why not do a component to component break down before you argue, Al and PolyCarbon are cheap to manufacture. 🙂
maya
macrumors 68040
Bern said:
LOL, I hope you know I have a 12" iBook right to match my iPod 3G. The same touch sensor buttons used on the new Cinema Displays. 🙂
12" PB owners are just in self denial that they purchase is tripping. 🙂 So they come up with size and weight when its really not that far apart. 🙂
oingoboingo
macrumors 6502a
Jdm_rsx said:
Just because this thread is dying down, I'd like to stir things up again. 10 reasons why you shouldn't feel bad about buying a PowerBook, from a fellow PowerBook owner. Definitely to be read with a 🙂
- It's smaller.
- It's lighter.
- The keyboard is better.
- It has a faster CPU, with a faster front-side bus.
- It has twice the video RAM.
- It has a GPU which supports CoreImage/CoreVideo.
- It has DVI out.
- It has an audio-in port.
- It doesn't look like it's made out of a recycled plastic ice-cream tub.
- Most importantly, the PowerBook family tree never contained any ancestors which could double as toilet seats or Hello Kitty cosmestics cases 🙂
Seriously guys, iBook, PowerBook...will it matter what you bought after a week of using it? No. You'll love your new 12" PowerBook. It's a damn sexy piece of technology, and it's what you wanted. Get off the forums for a while and just enjoy using such a quality piece integrated hardware and software.
oingoboingo
macrumors 6502a
m a y a said:
Out of interest, where did you find the minimum memory requirements for CoreImage? The only information I can find on Apple's Tiger Preview site about hardware requirements are those relating to the GPU core itself (ie: nVidia FX 5200 and above, ATI Radeon 9600 Pro and above) rather than anything about VRAM. I'd also be interested to read about the performance figures with 64MB versus 128MB of VRAM...where did you find this information? I don't have an ADC subscription so I can't get Tiger to play around with, but you may already have it.
That would be a shame if CoreImage API calls ran badly with 64MB of VRAM. That would mean that only the dual 2.5GHz PowerMac G5 would run CoreImage software acceptably 'out of the box', as every other machine in Apple's lineup has 64MB or less of video RAM as standard.
maya
macrumors 68040
oingoboingo said:
Go to an Expo and play with the machines take a look at what is is running off.....Apples machines have to perform well and there is no way they are going to put in 128MB ram as the minimal requirement for OS X they use 512MB as the least if not more.
Do you feel Core Image is the same they want to WOW the customers and switchers do you think they are going to keep a 64MB GPU in they PMG5 they will use a 128MB.
Why do you think they give you the option on a PB to upgrade to 128MB GPU just so that you can play games faster, please why are you so naive get with the program Apple states minimum to keep they consumers happy from not complaining you actually need a 128MB for decent performance for Core Image as OS X needs 256MB and more for decent speed.
If you honestly think the iMac G5 will be sitting pretty with Tiger you are fooling yourself, they put in 256MB ram and 64MB GPU since its the minimal requirements to run Tiger nothing more.......why do you feel they recommend you upgrade the RAM for good speed too bad you cannot do the same with the GPU.
The only reason Apple is making the PB line have an option for 128MB GPU is when Tiger is released people will think to themselves great this is pretty fast and kewl speed. People who are fooling themselves that 64MB GPU will cut it you will be disappointed what a wast of money indeed might as well buy an iBook and see what 64MB standard GPU card or 128MB on the PMG5 they have next year.
All you people are buying is an iBook only sporting the "Power" name for now what an embarrassment indeed. I also conversed with a few Apple tec's in regards to Core Image and they said pretty much what I have summed up here. You are better off buying a 12" iBook and using the extra money for other christmas gifts. 🙂
maya
macrumors 68040
oingoboingo said:
lets see smaller and lighter the iBook has that plus its rugged unlike the PB which wil dent, warp easy....even the iPod is made with the same materials for a reason have you not noticed that the mini with its Al casing if squeezed near the headphone jack you will hear a crunching noise. Al is great however it has many drawbacks for a mobile device.
Keyboard is better that is a matter of opinion its sad that the iBook does have a BackLit keyboard that would be nice indeed however I have heard too many problems with BOTH keyboards so I see no difference with either or if you have a faulty keyboard it might be as said faulty be it checked out.
Faster ram, CPU, and systembus...by only a fraction not much of a difference its a mobile no one is RIGHT in they mind to run a full time business database on a notebook you want the heavy work get a desktop or server for those purposes.
Unless you have a 128MB GPU expect Core Image to run slow on a 64MB GPU its a given unless you want to find out when "Tiger" is released and want me to say I told you so, I have already spoken to Apple Tec's in regards to this. Core Image is scalable however for live on screen effects at a decent speed you need 128MB GPU a 64MB will only get it done by no means fast. Do you think they are using 64MB GPU cards at the demo that Phil was showing you have to be joking, its an illusion you are being shown these kewl things however if you think you can get that with an iMac G5 at the speed they were demoing you are living in a dream.
DVI and audio-in there are other portable sources for these, many of the PB users that I know hardly use most of they ports. They do not use FW800, they do not use Audio-In, etc....
If you want to do broadcasting you need a standard TV to see how the final results will look since majority of the world does not have HDTV they have the tube based TV.
WOW resulting to making fun of a design, are we forgetting that Apple is the company who designed and has its label on what you see as a toilet seat. You are using the same companies product that designed a toilet seat iBook. How about the cheese grater PMG5, however about the PMG4 with the 4 holes and speaker on the top of the case face. Yes, Apple has had some great looking and some off looking designs for they products I still do not see what this has to do with it. Hey the so called toiled seat had a nice handle to carry it. The PB Al design was taken from the iBook so what do you have to say about that. 🙄
People do not try to justify the high price you payed for your *cough* iPowerBook, if it had a 2.0GHz dual core G4 that is a different story all together however that is not so. 🙂
I would love to look back on your post when they have a PBG5 and a Dual core G4 iBook....the only way Apple will cripple it is again systemBUS and ram speed as usual there is no way a consumer notebook can outperform a high priced PRO notebook. 😱
Go ahead line Apples profit pockets by buying more PowerBooks be sure Steve and Co are laughing as am I. 🙂
