1 year transition to 64-bit announcement at WWDC 2015?

Andres Cantu

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Do you guys think that if iOS 9 supports A5 devices, would Apple drop support for them and A6 devices in iOS 10 and make the release 64-bit only? iOS 10 seems like it would be the biggest change since iOS 7 (iPhone OS 1 through 3 were very similar, iOS 4 through 6 were very similar as well, and now iOS 7 through 9), but that would mean dropping a whole bunch of devices at once.

I'm thinking at WWDC 2015 they could announce something similar to when they were transitioning from PowerPC to Intel, kind of a heads up for 64-bit. It could make sense since starting this month, all app updates have to be 64-bit compatible, so they're kind of getting ready for it. How would you guys feel if they did this?
 

kwokaaron

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I guess it depends whether A5 devices are supported in iOS 9. If it is then it'll probably be iOS 11 instead of 10 that'll be 64-bit exclusive.
 
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Andres Cantu

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I guess it depends whether A5 devices are supported in iOS 9. If it is then it'll probably be iOS 11 instead of 10 that'll be 64-bit exclusive.
They did something similar with Mac OS X 10.7 Lion being 64-bit only after the release that focused on improved stability and performance. But then again, it happened 2 years after Snow Leopard, so it could really go either way. It's curious that in both cases Apple releases an OS update that focuses on bug fixing and then goes 64-bit. Maybe it's so that the 32-bit devices that cannot get the update can at least have the best possible experience.
 
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iamMacPerson

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I've been thinking that for a while honestly. I would make sense, because if they force all apps to 64-bit they will be able to clean up the code base quite bit. I wonder though if they will still include a 32 to 64-bit translator like they do in OS X.
 

Andres Cantu

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I've been thinking that for a while honestly. I would make sense, because if they force all apps to 64-bit they will be able to clean up the code base quite bit. I wonder though if they will still include a 32 to 64-bit translator like they do in OS X.
I've never owned a Mac, so I wouldn't have the slightest idea, but hopefully when the transition is complete they can find the best way to make use of the compute power while reducing the size of whatever is possible.
 

TechGod

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I've never owned a Mac, so I wouldn't have the slightest idea, but hopefully when the transition is complete they can find the best way to make use of the compute power while reducing the size of whatever is possible.
Using Swift would be very beneficial. In fact, Apple should begin the process of converting all the native apps into Swift to boost iOS performance.
 

nj-morris

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You bet. Even though :apple: have had 64-bit for nearly two years, I wouldn't be surprised.
The reason why iOS is so 'limited' is because they are still supporting older devices. iOS 9 could be the first to really take advantage of their 64-bit devices, then iOS 10/X would be 64-bit only.
 

IGI2

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I think iOS 10 could be 64-bit only if they stop selling 32-bit iPhones THIS MONDAY.

iPhone 5s chip should be the weakest one this year.
 
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Andres Cantu

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I think iOS 10 could be 64-bit only if they stop selling 32-bit iPhones THIS MONDAY.

iPhone 5s chip should be the weakest one this year.
I don't think they've ever stopped selling the entry-level iPhone three months before the new one is released. But if they do announce something about a 64-bit transition, I could see it happening (epicenter of change?). People who are buying A5 and A6 devices today are risking losing support as early as next year.

I agree, the A7 chip will be the "weakest" one they will sell late this year as the entry-level chip. It's interesting what will happen because the only A6 device they sell now is the iPhone 5c. They will without a doubt stop selling the iPad Mini and the iPod touch 5th generation this year, and since the next iPad Minis start with and A7 chip (and if a new iPod touch is released, an A7 or A8), they will be selling no more 32-bit devices by the end of this year. So I guess iOS 10 does have a good chance of being 64-bit only!
 

IGI2

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I agree, the A7 chip will be the "weakest" one they will sell late this year as the entry-level chip. It's interesting what will happen because the only A6 device they sell now is the iPhone 5c.
That's what I meant. I mean, If this transition will come with iOS 10, this September's line-up must be 64-bit only.

Currently, we have 32-bit chip in iPhone, iPad mini and Apple TV 3rd (which also has some modified version of iOS).
 

Andres Cantu

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That's what I meant. I mean, If this transition will come with iOS 10, this September's line-up must be 64-bit only.

Currently, we have 32-bit chip in iPhone, iPad mini and Apple TV 3rd (which also has some modified version of iOS).
I forgot about the Apple TV! It should get quite the upgrade from a single-core A5 to an A8 chip.
 

GreyOS

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not a chance, there are many perfectly usable apps that are no longer updated that wouldn't work if they did this. no need to break them. os x 32 bit support continues today
 

GreyOS

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I think people are confused between two separate ideas which I will lay out here

1. the idea that at some point there will only be a 64 bit build of iOS because it will only be 64 bit devices it supports. to me this is totally uninteresting. it makes no difference to anyone. people who have a 64 bit device already have a 64 bit build, people who have 32 bit devices will be left with the last 32 bit build.

2. the idea that Apple will stop supporting 32 bit apps running on the 64 bit build of iOS. I cannot see this happening because there are plenty of apps still usable that are 32 bit and may not be updated. why break them for no reason... OS X still supports 32 bit apps even though it's been 64 bit build for ages. no reason to break apps

in both cases I see no advantage to us the end user and the latter actively diminishes our experience for no gain
 
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Andres Cantu

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I think people are confused between two separate ideas which I will lay out here

1. the idea that at some point there will only be a 64 bit build of iOS because it will only be 64 bit devices it supports. to me this is totally uninteresting. it makes no difference to anyone. people who have a 64 bit device already have a 64 bit build, people who have 32 bit devices will be left with the last 32 bit build.

2. the idea that Apple will stop supporting 32 bit apps running on the 64 bit build of iOS. I cannot see this happening because there are plenty of apps still usable that are 32 bit and may not be updated. why break them for no reason... OS X still supports 32 bit apps even though it's been 64 bit build for ages. no reason to break apps

in both cases I see no advantage to us the end user and the latter actively diminishes our experience for no gain
Good points, I wasn't aware of those.
 

iamMacPerson

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I think iOS 10 could be 64-bit only if they stop selling 32-bit iPhones THIS MONDAY.

iPhone 5s chip should be the weakest one this year.
The A7 will be later this year, but they aren't going to discontinue the 5c this Monday. It'll fall off like they always do in Sept.
 

MikhailT

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I think people are confused between two separate ideas which I will lay out here

1. the idea that at some point there will only be a 64 bit build of iOS because it will only be 64 bit devices it supports. to me this is totally uninteresting. it makes no difference to anyone. people who have a 64 bit device already have a 64 bit build, people who have 32 bit devices will be left with the last 32 bit build.

2. the idea that Apple will stop supporting 32 bit apps running on the 64 bit build of iOS. I cannot see this happening because there are plenty of apps still usable that are 32 bit and may not be updated. why break them for no reason... OS X still supports 32 bit apps even though it's been 64 bit build for ages. no reason to break apps

in both cases I see no advantage to us the end user and the latter actively diminishes our experience for no gain
There are advantages. For 64-bit iOS to run 32-bit apps, it has to retain the 32-bit version of the same libraries. When there is a 32-bit app running on your iOS device, both the 32-bit/64-bit libraries will be loaded in the memory. That takes up a lot of space and also takes up more of your memory.

Source: Apple docs here: https://developer.apple.com/library...ouch64BitGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html

When iOS is executing on a 64-bit device, iOS includes separate 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the system frameworks. When all apps running on the device are compiled for the 64-bit runtime, iOS never loads the 32-bit versions of those libraries. As a result, the system uses less memory and launches apps more quickly. Because all of the built-in apps already support the 64-bit runtime, it’s to everyone’s benefit that all apps running on 64-bit devices be compiled for the 64-bit runtime, especially apps that support background processing. Even apps that are not performance sensitive gain from this memory efficiency.
They absolutely will stop supporting 32-bit apps but not this year or the next. First thing they will do is block any new apps from being submitted with 32-bit libraries and then they'll stop allowing apps from being updated with 32-bit code.

As for desktop, it won't happen because there's no need to. There are reasons to do this for iOS as it needs every resources it can get.
 

chekz0414

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I can see iOS 10 being 64-bit only because Apple mentioned or rather sources say that Apple has a timeline for 10 in which to transition their native apps to be built using Swift 2.0
 

GreyOS

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There are advantages. For 64-bit iOS to run 32-bit apps, it has to retain the 32-bit version of the same libraries. When there is a 32-bit app running on your iOS device, both the 32-bit/64-bit libraries will be loaded in the memory. That takes up a lot of space and also takes up more of your memory.

Source: Apple docs here: https://developer.apple.com/library...ouch64BitGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html



They absolutely will stop supporting 32-bit apps but not this year or the next. First thing they will do is block any new apps from being submitted with 32-bit libraries and then they'll stop allowing apps from being updated with 32-bit code.

As for desktop, it won't happen because there's no need to. There are reasons to do this for iOS as it needs every resources it can get.
cheers for some good info there! and agree as you say it won't be happening soon
 

Hot12345

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I think that next generation apple components are from Intel. And yes ios 10 will work like backwords compatible. So it will work on older devices , but it runs the the newest firmware
 

MikhailT

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I think that next generation apple components are from Intel. And yes ios 10 will work like backwords compatible. So it will work on older devices , but it runs the the newest firmware
Zero chance. Why would Apple use Intel CPUs when they can produce better CPU just as well at lower costs? Apple wants to be in control of its hardware design, going back to Intel goes against that.

If anything, a partnership with Intel to let Apple build their SoCs on Intel's fabs is far more likely than Apple using Intel's mobile chips.
 
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