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10.5 is not what it's cracked up to be
- Thread starter eezing
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You know, if the experience that you had was in anyway typical of a normal Mac experience, you'd have a truckload of people agreeing with you.
I'm not sure how familiar you were with MacRumors before you registered today and blessed it with such an awesome first post, but the majority of Mac owners here are fairly critical of Apple and its products. Shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes of looking at threads to pick up on that.
I think yellow summed it up best:
All the chest-beating and testicle swelling is just a little silly, don'cha think?
As far as the OP's software creds, they should realize that we have folks from many developers that state who they're with publicly, including MS's MacBU, so you shouldn't feel compelled to hide it. As far as version incompatibility, that's entirely on the developer's side. If you or your developers are ADC members (and if you're Mac developers, you damn well better be), then you either update to ensure compatibility or publicly state the highest level you'll certify performance through. You don't dump on the OS developer, it's not their fault, nor their problem if you can't keep up.
Oh, and welcome to the forums. Nice introduction.
Hey, you gotta start with a bang, right?
In all honesty... Dude you're nuts, no disrespect. If you want to make some comparison between Windows and OSX, fine. But saying that Vista is better that Leopard is just flat out dumb. I've used Windows all my life until a couple years ago, and your statement is absurd. *takes 
fanboy outfit off*
fanboy outfit off*I work in a huge company as a software engineer, and i see numerous people cursing vista, and the department that use mac updated there machines to the latest update, and they have had no problems what so ever, all the software they use was updated with the patch. Compatibility is the responsibility of the vendor not apple. I used to be a windows person, developing on windows now moving to os x. And i for one will never go back to windows.
I love it, you guys and your precious Macs. No reason for bashing here. I'm simply stating your beloved OS X ain't all that and a bag of chips.
For the record, most of the problems I encountered were fixable; all but the default Wifi Issue. I had to re-install 10.5 for that. Look, I'm not an idiot, I know how to troubleshoot, I do it everyday. So that being said, I've most likely tried the suggestion you have posted or will post about how to fix my issues. I thank you anyway.
As far as software compatibility, if you don't work in a software environment, please don't comment on this. I see more software in one week then you do in a year.
My problem is, the whole "It just works" attitude is BS. Getting your Mac up and running at 100% usability is not easy. After spending eight hours working with computers, the last thing I want to do when I get home is troubleshoot my own.
I think we are missing an inportant detail: we are considering notebooks or desktops? Notebooks are allways harder to optimize than desktop - much more specific devices to make troubles. I think eezing works on a desktop every day doing fine tunning and when he go home tired, he look to his MacBook at some corner of bedroom and think - what a bag of chips!
But now, let me say: develop in a Mac is still better. Spaces are cool and security of your data got no price! What we need now is real "It just works" system, lighter and faster. I hope Snow Leopard will be something like this.
For the record, most of the problems I encountered were fixable; all but the default Wifi Issue. I had to re-install 10.5 for that. Look, I'm not an idiot, I know how to troubleshoot, I do it everyday. So that being said, I've most likely tried the suggestion you have posted or will post about how to fix my issues. I thank you anyway.
As far as software compatibility, if you don't work in a software environment, please don't comment on this. I see more software in one week then you do in a year.
Working in a warehouse packing software into boxes doesn't count. The chances of you seeing the 'inner workings' of more software in a week than most folks do in a year is also very slim. The development time for most software is a few months to a couple years. So at most you MIGHT just see a few packages 'innards' in a year if you are working on some of the more insignificant projects.
Get off your high horse.
Original Poster
Ok, Round 3 on 10.5.
Last night I completed a fresh install of 10.4, 10.5 and XP Pro (all updates have been installed).
The plan is to use 10.5 as main, 10.4 only when I need to, and parallels for Windows apps. At the first sign of any problems previously experienced, I will video record and post for all to see.
If after 3 months, none of the problems I've previously encountered before arise, I will throw in the towel and state 10.5 is better than Vista.
Just to throw it out there, I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing it for me. I'm sure all of you can care less about what I think of OS X.
Ok, Round 3 on 10.5.
Last night I completed a fresh install of 10.4, 10.5 and XP Pro (all updates have been installed).
The plan is to use 10.5 as main, 10.4 only when I need to, and parallels for Windows apps. At the first sign of any problems previously experienced, I will video record and post for all to see.
If after 3 months, none of the problems I've previously encountered before arise, I will throw in the towel and state 10.5 is better than Vista.
Just to throw it out there, I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing it for me. I'm sure all of you can care less about what I think of OS X.
There IS a definite OS X wireless dropout issue, that started with OS 10.4.11, and is the same with Leopard. It's not dependent on the router. It's a pure OS X issue that seems to happen to random users. It's clearly an OS X issue, because users report that if you run Windows on the same machine then the wireless issue.
Don't give OP such a hard time. The wireless dropout issue has driven me crazy in the past. Just because you guys don't happen to have it doesn't mean there isn't a 600+ post thread on the Apple discussion forums about this identical issue.
Don't give OP such a hard time. The wireless dropout issue has driven me crazy in the past. Just because you guys don't happen to have it doesn't mean there isn't a 600+ post thread on the Apple discussion forums about this identical issue.
Don't give OP such a hard time. The wireless dropout issue has driven me crazy in the past. Just because you guys don't happen to have it doesn't mean there isn't a 600+ post thread on the Apple discussion forums about this identical issue.[/QUOTE]
You are talking about a single one of a bunch of vague complaints. Further, attempts to help were met with "I have tried all, and will ignore attempts at help, and I'm in software dev, so I know all".
There are a lot of issues with any OS, but not accepting help doesn't get you very far.
I've had several issues with my first mini, but almost all of them were answered with searches here. That's why I've decided to try and give something back. Just coming to rant is counter productive.
You are talking about a single one of a bunch of vague complaints. Further, attempts to help were met with "I have tried all, and will ignore attempts at help, and I'm in software dev, so I know all".
There are a lot of issues with any OS, but not accepting help doesn't get you very far.
I've had several issues with my first mini, but almost all of them were answered with searches here. That's why I've decided to try and give something back. Just coming to rant is counter productive.
And ignoring valid problems is counter-productive as well. The wireless dropout issue IS a software issue; specifically, an OS X issue. All we can do is hope and wait for Apple.
Sure.
However, when suggestions were given, the response was "I've already done everything possible". That's not useful.
You are sticking to the wireless issue. I'm not disputing it. I'm saying the original attitude wasn't going to get anywhere.
He's since posted that he'll give it 3 more months. I'm assuming that means actually troubleshooting and not just belly aching.
Nothing pisses me off more than when others have valid problems or concerns about Apple products, someone immediately comes in and says "It works great for me!" without offering any solutions. It's the equivalent of "I'm rich and successful, there's no reason why you can't be either, you must be lazy or stupid."
I own a SR MBP, and my wifi gets constantly dropped on OS X, but not in Vista.
I didn't figure out how to get video iChat to work with Windows users until recently, and it was a hassle. It doesn't "just work."
Windows Vista certainly has its share of problems, but at least Firefox and Safari don't crash on me all the time as they do on Leopard.
Neither system really dominates the other as some would breathlessly argue. We will have to wait for Snow Leopard vs. Windows 7.
I didn't figure out how to get video iChat to work with Windows users until recently, and it was a hassle. It doesn't "just work."
Windows Vista certainly has its share of problems, but at least Firefox and Safari don't crash on me all the time as they do on Leopard.
Neither system really dominates the other as some would breathlessly argue. We will have to wait for Snow Leopard vs. Windows 7.
Yep, that's just as crazy as "it's broke, fix it". Nothing gained.
However, I've seen some responses that then proceed to attempt to help. Gather data about what's wrong in an attempt to get enough information for a reasonable suggestion.
I can honestly say the worst problem I have with 10.5.5 (and since 10.5.0) is the slow start-up. Tiger was (and still is on my G5) blazingly fast. Leopard feels like it's "thinking."
While I'm not a professional developer, I can say, without a doubt, if a program doesn't run on the newest version of an OS, it's the developer's fault for not keeping up with the technology and updating accordingly.
I'm amazed at how many developers out there can program extremely well and still make $#!++y end-results. 90% of developers have no concept of user-friendliness or user-interface, yet they're the same 90% of developers making programs for corporations (and EVERY ONE of those programs suck).
While I'm not a professional developer, I can say, without a doubt, if a program doesn't run on the newest version of an OS, it's the developer's fault for not keeping up with the technology and updating accordingly.
I'm amazed at how many developers out there can program extremely well and still make $#!++y end-results. 90% of developers have no concept of user-friendliness or user-interface, yet they're the same 90% of developers making programs for corporations (and EVERY ONE of those programs suck).
I've certainly had more problems with Mac OS X than I have with Windows XP and Windows Vista combined.
I've been through 5 installations within a year!
Leopard's wireless was unusable for me until 10.5.2, I had to use Windows in Boot Camp if I was using some networks.
I still get frustrating hangs in the Finder and Safari.
I've been through 5 installations within a year!
Leopard's wireless was unusable for me until 10.5.2, I had to use Windows in Boot Camp if I was using some networks.
I still get frustrating hangs in the Finder and Safari.
Nope.
I changed out the RAM to do an upgrade.
Apple did extensive testing on the RAM and found no issues.
Original Poster
I thank you for the support from the last few posters. Just to make myself clear, It's not that I refuse help from people because I think I'm a know it all; It's because I've troubleshooted the issues extensively. Also, there was really no point in trying to resolve the issues here as I had already re-installed the OS prior to my original post.
I thank you for the support from the last few posters. Just to make myself clear, It's not that I refuse help from people because I think I'm a know it all; It's because I've troubleshooted the issues extensively. Also, there was really no point in trying to resolve the issues here as I had already re-installed the OS prior to my original post.
Holy F*** this guy asked for simple help and suggestions and you guys take this is an attack on Mac. Go outside and fight for something that actually matters.
But if it does work great for me, and it does, what solution can I offer. If it works great out of the box with no issues... what solution can I offer?
Macs are easier to use. Less pops ups on startup, faster boot/shut down times as well. I've been using Macs for 4 years, never encountered a single problem that wasn't human error. For example my speakers didn't work, the 3.5mm jack wasn't plugged all the way in. Internet didn't work, the router was down. One problem was not enough ram for my purposes, but I put in 2GB ram sticks.