1080p Video

maczach16

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
36
0
Omaha, Nebraska
Hey, I'm getting a new mac soon, but I'm having a problem with the one my school provides us to use. It's the 2Ghz white macbook (from 2 years ago I think). It's got 2GB of RAM as well.

I'm trying to watch 1080p videos such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N06dOIG3OZg&feature=related

But, it's all choppy and not even playing correctly.
I'm using the latest firefox.
OS X v.10.5.7 (I can't upgrade because it's my schools computer, and they don't do upgrades until summer for the next year of students.)

Here is the iStat Dashboard App's information while the video is playing:

I took 2 pics.
 

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Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,076
580
Finland
Youtube = Flash
Flash for Mac = Piece of crap

It has nothing to do with your specs or browser as you should have no problems but as Flash is so poorly made for Mac, 1080p at fullscreen will lag, no matter do you have Mac Mini or 8-core Mac Pro.
 

maczach16

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
36
0
Omaha, Nebraska
Youtube = Flash
Flash for Mac = Piece of crap

It has nothing to do with your specs or browser as you should have no problems but as Flash is so poorly made for Mac, 1080p at fullscreen will lag, no matter do you have Mac Mini or 8-core Mac Pro.
Wow are you serious? That's bull.
Well this is really disappointing.

I also just realized, that when watching 720p video, my computer uses more processor:
 

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Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,076
580
Finland
Wow are you serious? That's bull.
Well this is really disappointing.

I also just realized, that when watching 720p video, my computer uses more processor:
Unfortunately, I am serious. Flash has always been crap for OS X and will always be, that's why there is no Flash in iPhone or iPad because it already sucks in OS X!

Try watching a trailer in 1080p from Apple's site
 

maczach16

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
36
0
Omaha, Nebraska
Ahhh, I didn't know Firefox didn't support HTML 5. Safari is blocked on my computer because the school pushes our Internet connections through a filtering thing.
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,076
580
Finland
Ahhh, I didn't know Firefox didn't support HTML 5. Safari is blocked on my computer because the school pushes our Internet connections through a filtering thing.
So you can only use Firefox? Try the trailer link I gave you above if you want to see how 1080p runs on you Mac
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,076
580
Finland
That's right. Only firefox. I'll check the link.

[edit]

Those trailers seem to run ok.
Okay, so it's Flash related as I thought. I'm sure Firefox is getting full support sooner than later but the problem is that Youtube uses H.264 decoding which is patented and that's why e.g. Apple and Google have to pay pretty big annual fees to be able to use it in their browsers. Mozilla doesn't want to pay these fees as they believe in "free and open-source internet" so paying for H.264 would be against that.

See this
 

Makosuke

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2001
6,152
341
The Cool Part of CA, USA
1080p at fullscreen will lag, no matter do you have Mac Mini or 8-core Mac Pro.
That's not actually entirely true; a couple of days ago I was showing my parents a 1080p video I'd made on their current-gen Mini, which is only a 2.53GHz dual core, but as far as I could tell it looked pretty good at fullscreen. Might have been because it was time-lapse, though, so it's a little jittery anyway.

That said, this:
Youtube = Flash
Flash for Mac = Piece of crap
...is true, and has been for many years. It's part of the reason I really, really, really don't like Adobe anymore and am glad that they kept Flash off the iPhone/iPad. Adobe occasionally tries to make excuses or blame Apple, but frankly I don't believe them.

You can see that Firefox (the Flash plugin, actually) is using 100% of a CPU core, indicating that it's running as fast as it's able on your machine (Flash, and maybe any video decoding, isn't multithreaded at all). Nothing other than improvements to Flash will change that.


Speaking of which, if you can install software, you might try the current Flash 10.1 beta (which from the looks of it won't be beta for much longer--it's currently at release candidate)--it claims to have some video optimization on the Mac, and I did notice that 480p Hulu looks better with it than 10.0.x.
 

Anonymous Freak

macrumors 603
Dec 12, 2002
5,120
432
Cascadia
YouTube HTML5 works on Safari, Chrome, and IE+ChromeFrame. (Chrome Frame for IE will install even if you don't have Administrator rights!)

Join the HTML5 beta at http://www.youtube.com/html5

Then re-load the video page you linked to. It will load as HTML5 video. (Note; no videos with ads will work as HTML5 video, and not all ad-less videos will even work.)

Increase to 1080p.

...

Profit.

(Note, I have an original MacBook Pro 2.0 GHz with 2 GB RAM, and it can *BARELY* play 1080p H.264 (it drops to 20-ish FPS.) For Flash video, 720p is stretching the limits.


That's not actually entirely true; a couple of days ago I was showing my parents a 1080p video I'd made on their current-gen Mini, which is only a 2.53GHz dual core, but as far as I could tell it looked pretty good at fullscreen. Might have been because it was time-lapse, though, so it's a little jittery anyway.
I think he was referring specifically to Flash. 1080p Flash on my 8-core Nehalem HackPro with 12 GB RAM and a fast accelerated video card can be a little jittery still. But 1080p H.264 is nearly perfect on my Core Duo 2.0 GHz with 2 GB RAM; and 1080p MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 is perfectly smooth on even older hardware. (Although not MUCH older.) A single-core G5 should be able to play 1080p MPEG-4 without problem, and a fast dual G4 may even be able to handle it.
 

maczach16

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
36
0
Omaha, Nebraska
YouTube HTML5 works on Safari, Chrome, and IE+ChromeFrame. (Chrome Frame for IE will install even if you don't have Administrator rights!)

Join the HTML5 beta at http://www.youtube.com/html5

Then re-load the video page you linked to. It will load as HTML5 video. (Note; no videos with ads will work as HTML5 video, and not all ad-less videos will even work.)

Increase to 1080p.

...

Profit.

(Note, I have an original MacBook Pro 2.0 GHz with 2 GB RAM, and it can *BARELY* play 1080p H.264 (it drops to 20-ish FPS.) For Flash video, 720p is stretching the limits.
My computer can run 720p video without a problem.
 

Makosuke

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2001
6,152
341
The Cool Part of CA, USA
I think he was referring specifically to Flash.
I was, too--that link is to a 1080p YouTube video I made. I'm not defending Flash--the rage it induces in me borders on illogical--just saying that three days ago I had a somewhat better experience than expected with it on YouTube. Again, it's also possible that, because it's a time lapse video, choppiness wasn't noticeable (to me).

It also may have made a difference that the monitor involved was 1080p, so playing at fullscreen, which I was, would involve no scaling at all. Entirely possible performance would have gone to hell if it'd been up/downscaled even a little--didn't try.


Mostly unrelated aside: Have been watching a lot of 480p Hulu Flash videos fullscreen on my 1080p TV recently, and I've noticed that while Flash 10.0 tends to be a little jittery during pans and other times where frameskips are most noticeable, the earlier 10.1 betas were smoother but showed just a little bit of tearing when played fullscreen. The latest RC 10.1, however, looked remarkably good on the couple of things I watched with it. Which again makes me wonder if the good performance I was seeing with that 1080p video was because it wasn't being upscaled at all.
 

maczach16

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
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0
Omaha, Nebraska
I was, too--that link is to a 1080p YouTube video I made. I'm not defending Flash--the rage it induces in me borders on illogical--just saying that three days ago I had a somewhat better experience than expected with it on YouTube. Again, it's also possible that, because it's a time lapse video, choppiness wasn't noticeable (to me).

It also may have made a difference that the monitor involved was 1080p, so playing at fullscreen, which I was, would involve no scaling at all. Entirely possible performance would have gone to hell if it'd been up/downscaled even a little--didn't try.


Mostly unrelated aside: Have been watching a lot of 480p Hulu Flash videos fullscreen on my 1080p TV recently, and I've noticed that while Flash 10.0 tends to be a little jittery during pans and other times where frameskips are most noticeable, the earlier 10.1 betas were smoother but showed just a little bit of tearing when played fullscreen. The latest RC 10.1, however, looked remarkably good on the couple of things I watched with it. Which again makes me wonder if the good performance I was seeing with that 1080p video was because it wasn't being upscaled at all.
The playback on my computer is so bad, it's like 2 FPS.
 

Luis Ortega

macrumors 6502a
May 10, 2007
956
42
I meant that's bull, as it, it sucks that Mac doesn't have good flash support.
I know what you meant. It's still bull that flash doesn't work well on macs.
All of this bs about flash on the ipad, etc., is just apple trying to force people into buying their own content and making more money.
The fact that 90% of the world's computers run windows doesn't bode well for apple trying to kill off flash since they are more likely to hurt themselves.
 

maczach16

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
36
0
Omaha, Nebraska
I see. Well I just wish companies would get their **** together so the end-user (ME) can enjoy the thousand dollar computer I purchased.
 

Makosuke

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2001
6,152
341
The Cool Part of CA, USA
The playback on my computer is so bad, it's like 2 FPS.
Ok, that's not characteristically bad Flash performance, that's abnormal. I get playback like that on an 8-year-old dual 1GHz G4, and any Intel-based Mac should be substantially better than that.

Here's a question: Do you have OTHER pages open at the same time? Thing with Flash is--and this is the main reason I hate it so much, not the video performance--that any badly written Flash object can easily consume 100% CPU, and as I said before, Flash isn't multithreaded. And when you're talking about Flash-based web ads, "badly written" means "everything."

Which is to say that any time you have a page with a Flash ad on it open--which is practically any time you have a page open--that ad is probably using 100% of a CPU core to do whatever stupid thing it's doing. It's so bad--hearing the fans on my MBP spin up and feeling the bottom heat significantly--that FlashBlock is now the first thing I install on any Mac I'm using.

Now, maybe this isn't the cause of your problem, but I could imagine that if there's another Flash file in the background while you're trying to watch 1080p video eating up CPU, it could make it a lot choppier.

Not being a regular Firefox user I can't tell you what the equivalent of Flashblock is for it, but you might try, for the heck of it, quitting Firefox, opening it, going directly to Youtube with nothing else open, and seeing if the performance is any better.


All of this bs about flash on the ipad, etc., is just apple trying to force people into buying their own content and making more money.
The fact that 90% of the world's computers run windows doesn't bode well for apple trying to kill off flash since they are more likely to hurt themselves.
I'm trying very, very hard to resist derailing this thread on the pro/anti-Flash argument, so I'm not going to respond to this in any detail. I will say, however, that Windows does NOT have 90% marketshare in the mobile space--on the contrary, MS has about 15% to Apple's 25%, and when you look at the amount of actual web TRAFFIC, meaning how many people will actually care one way or the other about whether they can watch your video, the numbers are in the low 40% range for the iPhone, a hair less for Android, and a whopping 2% for Windows Mobile. The situation outside the US is even more stark, with the iPhone accounting for about 50% and the nearest competitor, Android, at about 25%.

I think there's a legitimate argument to be made against Flash in general, but one way or the other saying that Apple's lack of support for it on the iPhone will hurt them more than Adobe is questionable at best at this point in time.

There's also the important fact that Flash as a video distribution medium is just a middle-man--it's feeding you the same compressed MP4 video stream that the OS could be handling itself or handing off to the h264 hardware decoder in most phones. That YouTube is moving strongly toward HTML5 video does not bode well for Flash for video distribution.
 

maczach16

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
36
0
Omaha, Nebraska
Ok, that's not characteristically bad Flash performance, that's abnormal. I get playback like that on an 8-year-old dual 1GHz G4, and any Intel-based Mac should be substantially better than that.

Here's a question: Do you have OTHER pages open at the same time? Thing with Flash is--and this is the main reason I hate it so much, not the video performance--that any badly written Flash object can easily consume 100% CPU, and as I said before, Flash isn't multithreaded. And when you're talking about Flash-based web ads, "badly written" means "everything."

Which is to say that any time you have a page with a Flash ad on it open--which is practically any time you have a page open--that ad is probably using 100% of a CPU core to do whatever stupid thing it's doing. It's so bad--hearing the fans on my MBP spin up and feeling the bottom heat significantly--that FlashBlock is now the first thing I install on any Mac I'm using.

Now, maybe this isn't the cause of your problem, but I could imagine that if there's another Flash file in the background while you're trying to watch 1080p video eating up CPU, it could make it a lot choppier.

Not being a regular Firefox user I can't tell you what the equivalent of Flashblock is for it, but you might try, for the heck of it, quitting Firefox, opening it, going directly to Youtube with nothing else open, and seeing if the performance is any better.


I'm trying very, very hard to resist derailing this thread on the pro/anti-Flash argument, so I'm not going to respond to this in any detail. I will say, however, that Windows does NOT have 90% marketshare in the mobile space--on the contrary, MS has about 15% to Apple's 25%, and when you look at the amount of actual web TRAFFIC, meaning how many people will actually care one way or the other about whether they can watch your video, the numbers are in the low 40% range for the iPhone, a hair less for Android, and a whopping 2% for Windows Mobile. The situation outside the US is even more stark, with the iPhone accounting for about 50% and the nearest competitor, Android, at about 25%.

I think there's a legitimate argument to be made against Flash in general, but one way or the other saying that Apple's lack of support for it on the iPhone will hurt them more than Adobe is questionable at best at this point in time.

There's also the important fact that Flash as a video distribution medium is just a middle-man--it's feeding you the same compressed MP4 video stream that the OS could be handling itself or handing off to the h264 hardware decoder in most phones. That YouTube is moving strongly toward HTML5 video does not bode well for Flash for video distribution.
Well, no this happens with just 1 tab open. And when playing just a 720p video, Firefox pushes 160% cpu (1.6 cores out of 2), so Flash must be able to multithread. I think my computer just sucks because it's the school's so its got all of their monitoring software running and other **** that just makes the computer run slow