You need to look up what ROI means. Except owners of the very early Apple products, no one ever got an 80% ROI on any Mac because when you sell something for less than you paid for it that's called a LOSS, or NEGATIVE ROI.
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11" MBA poor resale value
- Thread starter dmelgar
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You need to look up what ROI means. Except owners of the very early Apple products, no one ever got an 80% ROI on any Mac because when you sell something for less than you paid for it that's called a LOSS, or NEGATIVE ROI.
It's an interesting idea, but not the situation in my case. It was a 15 year old girl and her mom, neither of which knew anything about computers.
With you all the way, absolutely outstanding maths 101
Apple stock yeah that works, Apple computers barring the Apple one, the rest just use and abuse, replace when needed, only way they are making $$$ is what you do with them ----------
More fool them, shame on you....
Apple computers in general are not going to enjoy the same resale value they have in the past. It's a different company with a different philosophy now that pushes much more into planned obsolescence and that has to kill the resale value.
My 2004 powerbook lasted me into 2009 before it fell far enough behind that it became limited. It was certainly slow, but it could still do pretty much anything a newer one could do. Now my early 2011 MBP I just bought last August is apparently the oldest apple laptop model that will support airplay. Since the model came out in Feb, it will be 17 months old and already hit the limit. Mine will be 11 months old and I didn't think buying a 6 month old mac was a problem at the time, but now I regret it, not because of the laptop's inherent limitations, but because of apple's new game.
Not everyone will care about airplay, but it will soften the demand and therefore lower the resale price of anything older. That is way too soon to start killing off a product. It sure seems like Apple is trying to build in a 2-year expiry date, and that has to destroy resale value. Someone may be okay with not having the latest and most powerful, but when they're also locked out of new features just because...why would they buy the used gear?
What will happen to the rMBP when it's 3-4 years old and needs a new battery? People here talk about selling it and moving on to a new computer, but that only works because somebody is willing to buy the old one, and if that's going to need a $200 replacement *and* have features locked out from os 10.10 or 11, it's got to kill the resale value. With the rMBP, the days of $30 ebay batteries that take 5 minutes to install are over.
My 2004 powerbook lasted me into 2009 before it fell far enough behind that it became limited. It was certainly slow, but it could still do pretty much anything a newer one could do. Now my early 2011 MBP I just bought last August is apparently the oldest apple laptop model that will support airplay. Since the model came out in Feb, it will be 17 months old and already hit the limit. Mine will be 11 months old and I didn't think buying a 6 month old mac was a problem at the time, but now I regret it, not because of the laptop's inherent limitations, but because of apple's new game.
Not everyone will care about airplay, but it will soften the demand and therefore lower the resale price of anything older. That is way too soon to start killing off a product. It sure seems like Apple is trying to build in a 2-year expiry date, and that has to destroy resale value. Someone may be okay with not having the latest and most powerful, but when they're also locked out of new features just because...why would they buy the used gear?
What will happen to the rMBP when it's 3-4 years old and needs a new battery? People here talk about selling it and moving on to a new computer, but that only works because somebody is willing to buy the old one, and if that's going to need a $200 replacement *and* have features locked out from os 10.10 or 11, it's got to kill the resale value. With the rMBP, the days of $30 ebay batteries that take 5 minutes to install are over.
Ah but I think collectors could have created a faux economy (for the average user), so they just assumed it was a reasonable price. Don't know.
I didn't target or fool them. I put it on Craigslist for $600 just for the heck of it (and planned to lower it $100 every week or so until it sold), and got an email asking if I'd take $550. I had no idea who would show up until we met, and I'd be stupid not to accept if that's what they were offering.
I agree with that. They seem to be pushing annual OS updates now, and are dropping compatibility with older Macs at each release date. Before 10.6, operating system updates tended to be compatible with older Macs more so than now. 10.6 dropped support for PowerPC Macs. 10.7 for 32-bit Intel Macs. 10.8 is dropping support for most Macs built before 2008. Plus, Apple's own software often requires the latest version of the OS to run.
My guess is that Apple wants people to buy new Macs every 3 years or so.
Another attempt to explain & justify the data.
The most innovative part of the macbook air is use of SSDs vs. hard drives. The largest part of the upgrade cost to create an ultimate is upgrading the SSD.
SSD prices are coming down quickly (although not as quickly as I expected), and capacity is going up while getting dramatically faster.
Maybe its maxing out the SSD which loses its resale value when in 2 years you can get twice as much thats twice as fast for the same price.
That would argue that getting the base or minimum SSD is the approach to preserve resale value.
The most innovative part of the macbook air is use of SSDs vs. hard drives. The largest part of the upgrade cost to create an ultimate is upgrading the SSD.
SSD prices are coming down quickly (although not as quickly as I expected), and capacity is going up while getting dramatically faster.
Maybe its maxing out the SSD which loses its resale value when in 2 years you can get twice as much thats twice as fast for the same price.
That would argue that getting the base or minimum SSD is the approach to preserve resale value.
I'm not sure you could ever get 80% of the new price for a used Mac after two years.
And as far as your single anecdote...If I decide to sell my computer to a friend for half what it's worth, that doesn't mean Mac used market prices have collapsed, just that my friend got a good deal. From a quick search of completed listings on Ebay it looks like the market value for a 2009 Macbook Pro is over $700 ($740 based on the last 5 sold). Ebay's probably a better metric for used Mac prices than something like Craigslist since items sell for what buyers are willing to pay for them (and Ebay always has a good sample size).
It's not about the SSD. Most people will either think you are talking about your sexually transmitted disease issues, or just nod their head and pretend they know what you are saying. They see Macbook Air 2011 for $X and one for $Y. Except in rare cases, no amount of babbling on about more RAM and so forth will convince them it is worth paying more, because it isn't! If they are running two generations behind, then they probably don't care what is in it, and they just need something to do basic tasks.
As I said (others have said it too), when you buy anything beyond the base model, you are going to lose money. That is a general rule across all devices, not just the MBA. Sometimes it might feel "worth it" to you, but at the end of the day, you will have less cash in your pocket. I still bought the 32GB iPad and 128 GB MBA 11", but I know I will get a smaller percentage from the resale. That's just how the game works.
First, let me say this is one of the best threads I've read on here in a while. Thanks to everyone who has provided the great input to help out the OP and the rest of us who sell a lot of our used Apple products on eBay. This brings up a lot of very valid points I had not considered before, and likely new to the OP as well.
So, for my two cents, I have to agree with dmelgar's point above. Upgrading to the faster processor ($150) and certainly doubling the RAM ($100) is not nearly as big of an expense as upgrading the SSD on these machines. When looking to buy my 11" Air last week, I really debated over the value of a 128 SSD vs the 512 and decided for that amount of money, $800 to upgrade, I could manage to NOT keep all of my music and movies on this machine. And, as another poster mentioned here, eBay buyers are just not the type who value the maxed out machines some of us more dedicated users do. They just want the Apple product. My brother is a good example of this. He bought last year's MBA at Best Buy they day after Apple announced the new MBA's but didn't really care. He saved maybe $50 with little interest in the spec bump. I asked him what size the SSD was and he said, "I don't know, but still have space left." In my experience, this is typical of many who buy old models or used products.
Let me also just say that if you watch carefully, you can usually predict when Apple is about to release new hardware. By virtue of posting on this forum, you are a reader of MacRumors and are far more able to predict updates than most of the eBay buyers. Try selling before the new models come out and you will see a a better price. Of course, these are just rumors on here and I have been burned before using this strategy, but it is all part of the fun.
So, for my two cents, I have to agree with dmelgar's point above. Upgrading to the faster processor ($150) and certainly doubling the RAM ($100) is not nearly as big of an expense as upgrading the SSD on these machines. When looking to buy my 11" Air last week, I really debated over the value of a 128 SSD vs the 512 and decided for that amount of money, $800 to upgrade, I could manage to NOT keep all of my music and movies on this machine. And, as another poster mentioned here, eBay buyers are just not the type who value the maxed out machines some of us more dedicated users do. They just want the Apple product. My brother is a good example of this. He bought last year's MBA at Best Buy they day after Apple announced the new MBA's but didn't really care. He saved maybe $50 with little interest in the spec bump. I asked him what size the SSD was and he said, "I don't know, but still have space left." In my experience, this is typical of many who buy old models or used products.
Let me also just say that if you watch carefully, you can usually predict when Apple is about to release new hardware. By virtue of posting on this forum, you are a reader of MacRumors and are far more able to predict updates than most of the eBay buyers. Try selling before the new models come out and you will see a a better price. Of course, these are just rumors on here and I have been burned before using this strategy, but it is all part of the fun.
im betting the prime reason is your trying to sell a 2010 with c2d. those machines were already a year or so outdated the day they shipped. had you been trying to sell a 2011 i5 you wouldnt have an issue at all.
NICE!!!!!!! The $851 Macbook Ultimate you mentioned was the one I sold on ebay yesterday!!
I sold my Air and Ipad2 upgrading to the 2012 13'.
I feel your pain.
The low end of anything, the price drops like a stone.
The iPad 2 16g wifi comes to mind. But adding 3G or more memory doesn't jack up the used price like a new one.
The 11" just is not as popular as the 13". And that didn't help the value either.
Trying to go to Lion or ML with a low end machine that doesnt upgrade like a MacBook is also a minus.
The 2011 & 2012 models offer so much more and for a lot less.
If a retina becomes available on the Air the prices for used machines will drop again.
The low end of anything, the price drops like a stone.
The iPad 2 16g wifi comes to mind. But adding 3G or more memory doesn't jack up the used price like a new one.
The 11" just is not as popular as the 13". And that didn't help the value either.
Trying to go to Lion or ML with a low end machine that doesnt upgrade like a MacBook is also a minus.
The 2011 & 2012 models offer so much more and for a lot less.
If a retina becomes available on the Air the prices for used machines will drop again.
Wirelessly posted
key components like SSD prices have gone done dramatically so that's a big factor
also, like someone else said, simple supply demand.
now that apple's selling tons of hardware the market is flooded especially with each update. just 5years ago the used market was much smaller.
if you have an old MacBook that you put in a decent sized hard drive (ie 500gigs) I found I got a decent price in the form if a bestbuy gift card with their program - $550 for a 2006 core duo MacBook.
key components like SSD prices have gone done dramatically so that's a big factor
also, like someone else said, simple supply demand.
now that apple's selling tons of hardware the market is flooded especially with each update. just 5years ago the used market was much smaller.
if you have an old MacBook that you put in a decent sized hard drive (ie 500gigs) I found I got a decent price in the form if a bestbuy gift card with their program - $550 for a 2006 core duo MacBook.
Another victim to the new RMBP is the 17" MBP. I've considered selling my 2011 17" but the price I'll get on ebay is hovering around 40-50% of the value. That's after one year. No one wants a desktop replacement anymore!
OP's observation is consistent with what I have seen. To sum it up:
I have estimated it costs you about $30-$40 a month in depreciation to own an MBA - when you think if it, is it really that expensive to own a great laptop?
Base models have always had the lowest overall cost in terms of depreciation.
I have estimated it costs you about $30-$40 a month in depreciation to own an MBA - when you think if it, is it really that expensive to own a great laptop?
Base models have always had the lowest overall cost in terms of depreciation.
The core issue is, why spend 600$ (or more) on a top spec 2 year old MBA when a new base spec is only 999$ (no idea if thats still the price in the US) that will not only outperform the 2010 model in most task but also comes with full warranty, a new battery and minus all the traces of prior useage ??
Used prices have been just 100% wanko in the past and are now finally coming back to reality.
Used prices have been just 100% wanko in the past and are now finally coming back to reality.
I've been trying to sell on CL a i5 - 13" - 4GB / - 128GB , only 5 mos old and a warranty until Feb 2013, also loaded with MS Office 2011, in the box as new...asking $975...
and having a difficult time unless I want to let it go for $700!!
The maching is in NEW condition....can't seem to get any real interest...
can't figure out why...
and having a difficult time unless I want to let it go for $700!!
The maching is in NEW condition....can't seem to get any real interest...
can't figure out why...
This is the same reason why I'd prefer to get a base model car rather than an upper trim level, 10 years from now they're going to be at roughly the same resale value.
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What RangoMango said. Why get your machine for $975 when I can get a refurb from Apple with full one year warranty for roughly the same price after taxes?
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What RangoMango said. Why get your machine for $975 when I can get a refurb from Apple with full one year warranty for roughly the same price after taxes?
I find that the folks selling on CL.... seem to have unreasonable expectations. The minute you say... well it's selling on Apple.com for less WITH a warranty @ applecare if you want.... they stop replying.
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Classic example:
CL ad:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/sys/3083152050.html
Apple website price:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0JK0LL/A
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Classic example:
CL ad:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/sys/3083152050.html
Apple website price:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0JK0LL/A