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andiwm2003

macrumors 601
Mar 29, 2004
4,382
454
Boston, MA
if there is an ultra portable it won't compete with the 15 MBP or the MB. it will be much smaller (12", maybe 13.3"), has a downclocked CPU (1.6GHz) for heat reasons, has a weak GPU for heat and battery reasons, has a solid state HD with 64 GB only, only FW400, no express card slot, one usb, maybe even no optical drive, less the 4 pounds.

it will be too limited to compete with the MBP, too expensive for the MB buyer.

my guess based on gut feeling only.
 

drj434343

macrumors member
Jan 11, 2006
89
0
Portland, OR
I'll admit I was encouraged when I read the news regarding the 13.3" LED orders. Assuming the time frame of the original article is correct, I believe it's not likely they're intended for the Macbooks. I believe the recent Macbook update is it for the back to school shopping season, perhaps even until the end of the year. Additionally, LED's in the Macbooks would seriously upstage and devalue the non LED 17" MBP. If, however, the 13.3" LED screens were delayed until much later in the year, I would have an easier time believing they were intended for the Macbooks, and not a secret ultraportable. Only time will tell, the article doesn't seem to confirm an order for the smaller screens, just a consideration of ordering.

As for a subnotebook, I think it hinges on two factors. One is how Apple sees the demand for said hardware. I know everyone here loved the 12" PB, and would seriously consider another small pro offering, but I wonder how many "normals" would clamber for that device in the real world. I bet Apple has a better concept of those numbers than us. Second is how well Apple could currently differentiate the said pro notebook from the Macbooks, given the same screen size. It would have to have a smaller footprint and bezel, be appreciably thinner that MB's, have dedicated graphics, SR, and generally have as much power as its bigger MBP brothers. While all that seems technically feasible, I think the tricky thing is price point. Some manufacturers, like Sony, don't inherently charge less for smaller notebooks. In many cases, they charge more. That logic would mean a small offering would be in the range of the 15" MBP, making it clear you were loosing screen real estate and paying more for just the size advantage. However, Apple's track record has been different, they charged less for the 12" PB, placing it squarely between the 15" PB and the high end iBook of the time, showing us that size was a larger player how they determined their price point, mainly that larger size equals more value, equals higher price.

Either philosophy could work if they really wanted it to, but this allows us to see that they already have pretty good spread in their laptop line if one just considers price. The linchpin here will be if demand is high enough for a 13" MBP. I don't think we can obtain an honest assessment of that demand here. Which means we'll need to wait for WWDC and hope the demand is high enough.
 

CrackedButter

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2003
3,221
0
51st State of America
I'll always pine for an updated 12" MBP. If it turns out to be a 13" MBP then I wouldn't buy it.

I find that Apple's efforts in their mobile product range is a bit half hearted. They have so few lines that they're trying to fit into different markets.

First, I think its weird they don't have a consumer notebook bigger than 13" inches. The MB is 13" to try an appease this discrepancy, it wants the bigger screen while at the same time going for portability. The 12" worked, it knew it was a small machine and acted perfectly as such.

Apple should offer a 15" version of the MB personally. Anyway.

My only option now is to wait for a 17" MBP when I have the cash, it knows what it is and I like that about the product. To me the 17" is the strongest product they have in that lineup, I cannot wait to get one.

A 13" MBP is a waste imo, if they are looking for a product to distinguish itself from the 13" MB then make it a 12" machine, at pro level its crying out to be portable, that inch makes a difference to me and others who want portability over everything else. But then also don't limit it by offering consumer features either. That was one thing annoying about the 12" PB, it didn't have the cooler pieces of technology its older brothers had.
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
personally i hope for somthing more like the OQO but with multi touch...

OQO is a great idea in my opinion, if apple could get a good price point theyd have a winner for sure

biggest problem with current OQO = Vista

b145613.jpg

The only other problem I see with that as well is that it is just a little bigger than the iPhone, and since Apple has sworn off of small keyboards and the such the design philosophy behind it wouldn't make much sense in an ultraportable laptop/Mac that allows you to be productive for long hours. In other words... I don't think the OQO's design would make much sense as an Apple UMMac. I do see Apple making some kind of UMTablet Mac out of such a design though, giving it the touch screen UI of the iPhone or the suspected new UI from Leopard, and allowing users to just write directly on the screen, or flip out some newly designed thin keyboard. It is anyone's guess, and Apple usually blows all ideas out of the water with some innovative design and technology that no one has ever thought of... ala the iPhone.

Can anyone speculate when the LED will be in the Macbook? That's what I'm waiting for.

Not for a very long time... maybe another 6 months or so... the only time I have seen Apple update hardware with in their 6 month window is when they switched to Intel... but right after the MacPro came along they went back to every 6 months... the sad part is that with PowerPC chips they usually had a major jump in processor speeds and hardware specs or designs and features. Now, with Intel, Apple just plays the leap frog game with other PC makers.

if there is an ultra portable it won't compete with the 15 MBP or the MB. it will be much smaller (12", maybe 13.3"), has a downclocked CPU (1.6GHz) for heat reasons, has a weak GPU for heat and battery reasons, has a solid state HD with 64 GB only, only FW400, no express card slot, one usb, maybe even no optical drive, less the 4 pounds.

it will be too limited to compete with the MBP, too expensive for the MB buyer.

my guess based on gut feeling only.

That sounds pretty good to me. Palm's Foleo would be a hit if it were just an under powered UMPC laptop for $500-600 and maybe one or two configurable options, but it won't sell as well with smartphone and Treo owners that already have laptops, especially UMPCs from Toshiba and Sony. And it won't do so well because it has to work in tandem with the smartphone, it can't get online by itself, or do anything by itself really. If it ran Windows it would be a hit as the cheapest UMPC that is actually comfortable to use ever.

If Apple made a device like you described, with an underpowered processor to do basic productivity tasks, just enough SSD space to hold what you need, Bluetooth, Wifi, a Gig of RAM, you could even kill the FW400 and add a second USB port, keep it as thin as possible, and charge under a grand for it, let's say... $700-800 the price of a MacMini, then people would flock by the millions to pick one up. My girlfriend is a school teacher that would love to pull out a small, thin, cheap, laptop to do some file work on. She only needs to run MS Office apps, FileMaker Pro, maybe iPhoto, and other simple apps. If some punk kid steals her book then it isn't a big loss, not like loosing her one of a kind 12" PB which ran her $1500+ She would only loose $700, the cost of her Treo.

I truly think Apple is leaving the 12" PB owners behind with the new linup. Polycarbonate is nice, so is 13.3" screens, but the MacBook is noticably heavier than the 12"PB and the graphics are lacking a bit. If Apple introduced the 13.3" MBP, made it lighter and gave it an independent GPU and a backlit keyboard then they would sell millions of those as well. I would place money on one coming out sooner than most think.

I'll always pine for an updated 12" MBP. If it turns out to be a 13" MBP then I wouldn't buy it.

I find that Apple's efforts in their mobile product range is a bit half hearted. They have so few lines that they're trying to fit into different markets.

First, I think its weird they don't have a consumer notebook bigger than 13" inches. The MB is 13" to try an appease this discrepancy, it wants the bigger screen while at the same time going for portability. The 12" worked, it knew it was a small machine and acted perfectly as such.

Apple should offer a 15" version of the MB personally. Anyway.

My only option now is to wait for a 17" MBP when I have the cash, it knows what it is and I like that about the product. To me the 17" is the strongest product they have in that lineup, I cannot wait to get one.

A 13" MBP is a waste imo, if they are looking for a product to distinguish itself from the 13" MB then make it a 12" machine, at pro level its crying out to be portable, that inch makes a difference to me and others who want portability over everything else. But then also don't limit it by offering consumer features either. That was one thing annoying about the 12" PB, it didn't have the cooler pieces of technology its older brothers had.

Yeah... the backlit keyboard, PC card slot, FW800, and nicer GPU were all missing on the 12". I understand that they had to keep the price down as well as the size though. I am sure Apple has gained a few inches of space since switching to Intel, also, the 12" was the thickest PB on the market, so they could take the same route with the new 12" widescreen MBP. Make it a little thicker to make room for the GPU, Backlit keyboard, and an extra port. FW800 can be left off. And give it much better battery life and we have a deal.
 

Jblack4083

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 4, 2007
193
0
It won't take away from teh MB or the MBP because of it would have to be so different. I'm thinking 13.3" but with a different case than the MB, maybe an MBP like case. And it will be substatially more powerful than the regular MB. It would be different from the MBP because it's smaller and probably wont have the graphics card. People who bought the MBP aren't going to be mad about a laptop like this when one of the main driving points in this last MBP update was the new nVidia graphics card. And i don't know about the lower clocked CPU for heat and power reasons but that could be a possibility. I see this new laptop replacing the 12" PB and serving the same purposes because that's an area Apple has yet to fill. Theres no "pro" level laptop in smaller sizes. If you want power then you have to go big and get a 15". I think that Apple will introduce some trade-off's for this new smaller laptop to make it completely different. I agree with the SSD less space thing however i think it will have an optical drive. They need to do this because it makes it seem like either you buy a big one wiht big power or you buy a small one who's sole purpose is to be portable but still have power.
 

xpovos

macrumors 6502a
Jun 7, 2007
512
0
Tennessee
Someone in these forums recently wrote that the iPhone is Apple's new ultraportable. Probably not 100% accurate, but if they were to open up the API for developers, that poster's comments may have turned out to be more prophetic than anyone thought.
 

Jblack4083

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 4, 2007
193
0
I truly think Apple is leaving the 12" PB owners behind with the new linup. Polycarbonate is nice, so is 13.3" screens, but the MacBook is noticably heavier than the 12"PB and the graphics are lacking a bit. If Apple introduced the 13.3" MBP, made it lighter and gave it an independent GPU and a backlit keyboard then they would sell millions of those as well. I would place money on one coming out sooner than most think.

Well put

I also think that if Apple does happen to do this 13" MBP style thing that it would use a case structure that's probably a little lighter than the current lineup. This would hopefully make up for those who think that 13" is too big. I dont know about making it thinner but i can definitely see it being lighter.

I don't think it will be a tablet or touch screen either. I see that coming later on when Leopard is out and maybe that's some special feature of Leopard that it works well with multitouch or something. idk
 

chex

macrumors regular
May 17, 2007
222
0
I'm sure that higher price + lower capacity SSD + no internal optical drive will be enough to stop it hitting the macbooks and bigger MBPs and establish itself as a distinct product.

It's the only way I can see it happening. If they go for the X3100 and not discrete graphics, however, then they'll be banking too much on sales based on portability alone.
 

yagran

macrumors 6502a
Jan 8, 2007
718
2
Brighton, East Sussex, UK
:apple:Companion
An 11" multi-touch device
Main focus: Lightweight, Runs Cool, Connectivity

  • 1.6 Ghz under clocked core 2 duo
  • 64GB SSD
  • 1GB Ram 667Mhz
  • X3100 Graphics
  • 2x USB 2.0
  • 1x FW400
  • Built In Wi-Fi and Bluetooth
  • Built in GPRS (Google maps/Sat Nav)
  • On-Screen Keyboard
  • OSX Lite
  • Similar form factor to iPhone
  • £Priceless :p
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
Someone in these forums recently wrote that the iPhone is Apple's new ultraportable. Probably not 100% accurate, but if they were to open up the API for developers, that poster's comments may have turned out to be more prophetic than anyone thought.

I don't think the iPhone will ever be considered an ultra portable. It is just too small to do any real work on, same reason Palm brought out the Foleo, for those that lived off of their smartphones and needed to do more work on it longer. The iPhone is just not going to cut it when it comes to battery life and using that keyboard for long periods, even if it did run Word or Pages.

I'm sure that higher price + lower capacity SSD + no internal optical drive will be enough to stop it hitting the macbooks and bigger MBPs and establish itself as a distinct product.

It's the only way I can see it happening. If they go for the X3100 and not discrete graphics, however, then they'll be banking too much on sales based on portability alone.

The big problem with not having an optical drive is downloading and using many programs and OSes. Until software makers and Apple stop using $0.13 DVD discs to hold 4GBs of info for programs and OSes we will need optical drives. We can download things of of the internet but if your computer crashes and you have to boot in the OS how are you going to connect to the web without adding some elaborate ill concieved mechanisms and programs in the computer...

I agree with you though.... what will separate this machine from the rest is the size, the lack of a HDD, and adequate graphics, with a price around $1500 or so.

:apple:Companion
An 11" multi-touch device
Main focus: Lightweight, Runs Cool, Connectivity

  • 1.6 Ghz under clocked core 2 duo YUCK! give me 2.0GHz single core or something... not another MacMini
  • 64GB SSD
  • 1GB Ram 667Mhz
  • X3100 Graphics
  • 2x USB 2.0
  • 1x FW400 take it out to save money and space
  • Built In Wi-Fi and Bluetooth
  • Built in GPRS (Google maps/Sat Nav)
  • On-Screen Keyboard
  • OSX Lite
  • Similar form factor to iPhone
  • £Priceless :p

Oh... okay... this isn't an UMMac laptop... it is something even smaller and different... okay then.. still lose the FW400 and give me a beefier processor, but the on-screen keyboard can stay as well as the iPhone design... It will work like that especially if the price wasn't that far from the cost of the iPhone. If it soared near the MacBook though I wouldn't see it doing too well.
 

Shaduu

macrumors 6502a
Jan 31, 2007
750
0
Southsea
:apple:Companion
An 11" multi-touch device
Main focus: Lightweight, Runs Cool, Connectivity

  • 1.6 Ghz under clocked core 2 duo
  • 64GB SSD
  • 1GB Ram 667Mhz
  • X3100 Graphics
  • 2x USB 2.0
  • 1x FW400
  • Built In Wi-Fi and Bluetooth
  • Built in GPRS (Google maps/Sat Nav)
  • On-Screen Keyboard
  • OSX Lite
  • Similar form factor to iPhone
  • £Priceless :p

I'd buy that in a shot.
 

chex

macrumors regular
May 17, 2007
222
0
The big problem with not having an optical drive is downloading and using many programs and OSes. Until software makers and Apple stop using $0.13 DVD discs to hold 4GBs of info for programs and OSes we will need optical drives. We can download things of of the internet but if your computer crashes and you have to boot in the OS how are you going to connect to the web without adding some elaborate ill concieved mechanisms and programs in the computer...

I agree with you though.... what will separate this machine from the rest is the size, the lack of a HDD, and adequate graphics, with a price around $1500 or so.

they would have an external drive...like the ultraportable thinkpads
 

yagran

macrumors 6502a
Jan 8, 2007
718
2
Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Oh... okay... this isn't an UMMac laptop... it is something even smaller and different... okay then.. still lose the FW400 and give me a beefier processor, but the on-screen keyboard can stay as well as the iPhone design... It will work like that especially if the price wasn't that far from the cost of the iPhone. If it soared near the MacBook though I wouldn't see it doing too well.

you couldnt have a bigger processor in this size device, it would be unneccesary, im thinking the ATV chip mebe?
Its not a laptop its a ..dare i say...PDA really. Id love it tho.
firewire would be cool to have, its not expensive to add to a motherboard. The cost would be at like what $750-$800 ?
 

chex

macrumors regular
May 17, 2007
222
0
tbh if they offered the current macbook with a BTO discrete graphics card, even if it took the price up to MBP levels I would buy it.

I think Apple have totally lost out on the portability market.
 

Jblack4083

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 4, 2007
193
0
what happened to the 13" LED's? You guys are saying that there would be this small UMMac like thing but what about those 13" LED screens?
 

chex

macrumors regular
May 17, 2007
222
0
we're not saying that, we're just saying what we'd like to see on one if there was one.
 

Jblack4083

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 4, 2007
193
0
I'd rather see a 13" MBP or a powerful 13" machine because as soon as that releases I'm sold. Thats the one i'll get. If its 12 then I'm SOL. But I think that apple wouldn't try to reach into the UMPC market because as it is they're already pulling out of other markets (Mac Mini). Releasing a 13" pro notebook would still keep them within one market and nto expand them to another

Also, IDK about anything new because the page would look so weird with 4 things to select. Currently there's three or less things on every page (MB page, MBP page). It would be awkward (space wise) to cram 4 things into one page. but this will be a new line of notebook so it will have its own page. But then it would look weird to have only one thing on a page.
 

CrackedButter

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2003
3,221
0
51st State of America
Also, IDK about anything new because the page would look so weird with 4 things to select. Currently there's three or less things on every page (MB page, MBP page). It would be awkward (space wise) to cram 4 things into one page. but this will be a new line of notebook so it will have its own page. But then it would look weird to have only one thing on a page.

They use to have 5 laptops at the pro level at one point.
 

BigPrince

macrumors 68020
Dec 27, 2006
2,053
111
IMO people who believe this are lying to themselves, but don't get me wrong, I'd love to be wrong.

"I find it hard to believe Apple will release another mobile computer at WWDC. I believe it to be counter intuitive because another Mobile computer is likely to be more expensive and have a better profit margin.

Apple would not want to cut into its sales or deal with a bunch of Apple customers calling/returning.

snip..."

my post from https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/310737/

I wish I was wrong.
 
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