13in Air or 13in Pro

[mordred]

might as well weigh in for my first post...

So I saw this thread and figured I might as well weigh in, since I actually own a MacBook Pro and a MacBook Air.

For complete disclosure:

MacBook Pro 15in:
2.66ghz Intel Core I7 (dual core, quad threading)
Memory: Upgraded to 8 gig after market
Hard Drive: Upgraded to Crucial 256gig SSD, also after market

MacBook Air 11in:
1.4ghz Intel Core Duo
Memory: 2 gig
Hard Drive: 60gig SSD


The first thing I'd say, is that I agree with the people who are telling you to get whichever one more fits what you'll be using it for.

From my own experience and from what it sounds like you'll be primarily using your laptop for (ie. school) I'd recommend the Air but with one stipulation.
I'd get the 4 gig air with the 128 gig SSD, screen size would be a personal preference.

My reasons for this are as follows, first, I tend to use my MacBook Pro as a desktop replacement anymore these days. I work as a Senior Security Engineer and Researcher and as such I run a lot of VM's for testing...usually we're talking about 4 to 5 at a time, but this can obviously fluctuate given the need and obviously their individual system requirements can greatly affect over all system performance.

Having said this, unless you plan on doing a lot this type of work and/or a lot of graphic and video manipulation, you won't ever even begin to leverage the horsepower, and will basically just end up with a more expensive laptop that weighs significantly more to lug around.

You'd be better off to save the extra grand or so and buy you a nice monitor for home or dorm use, so you can hook up the air to that if you need more screen real-estate for certain projects.

Here's what I use my Air for:
Day to day surfing and lugging around in the car and on business trips (half the time I forget it's there it's so lite), some software development, mostly Python scripts and some Java, and occasionally for running tests against the VM's on my MacBook Pro.

Even with only 2 gig of RAM, I currently have 11 tabs open in google Chrome, Eclipse for Java development, 3 pdfs, iTunes playing, 3 terminal shells and the Activity Monitor and it's running just fine. I actually have about 8meg of RAM left free and actual CPU usage is about 33% at the moment.

I even regularly run a Back Track 5r1 VM on this machine configured with 756mg of RAM or a Windows XP machine VM configured with 756mg of RAM and they both run reasonably well enough for small or specific tasks.

Having said all that, if I had not gotten such a great deal on the Air as I did, I definitely would have gotten a more powerful one ($650 brand new, about 6 or 7 months ago, local store was going out of business.)

So, anyone telling you that 4 gig of RAM isn't enough for day to day work and basic programming tasks obviously has no idea what they're talking about.

Regardless of what you get, my number one recommendation though is to get an SSD drive. If you want a major performance boost, that's the way to go. Regardless of whether you go with a Pro or an Air.

If you do go with the Pro though, and you're reasonably technical, I'd get the cheapest drive Apple offer's in it, buy an after market SSD drive and put it in yourself. You can always buy an external USB or firewire case, put the old laptop drive in it and now you've got portable storage as well for storing iTunes and video and software or whatever.

Best of luck whichever way you go, I think you'll enjoy either of them!

~M

 

[onelane]

In terms of monitor. Why would you ever fork over an extra 200-500 dollars for the Mac display when you can buy an Asus, Toshiba, or other kind for significantly cheaper. The same argument can be made for buying a Macbook, but I really like Mac OSX so that was worth the money to me. However, you don't need a magical "Thunderbolt optimized Apple cinema awesome" monitor, when a 20-24in 1080p Asus one would suffice and suffice well.

You can just buy an adapter for Thunderbolt to HDMI for 30 bucks from Apple or cheaper from an offbrand. I have a 1080p ViewSonic 24in monitor that I bought for 200 dollars on Amazon and with an offbrand connector, I can use my Mac in full 1080p 1980 x 1080 resolution (although gaming sucks, so I rarely connect it.)

I like the idea of the thunderbolt display as a dock station where i can have mouse, full size keyboard and superdrive and probably a backup drive already connected at home and just plug one thing in to access it all. I wont be able to do that with a non thunderbolt compatible display. Will I?

 

[Osamede]

OK, I made a make mistake of .5 pounds. The argument is still valid.

More humility is in order when youre busted fudging numbers.

While it is true that one wieghs 50% more than the other using that stat alone is very misleading. The weight only matters when your are moving around with it or holding it (I'm assuming that people don't stand around holding their Macs when they don't have to). Any time the system is moved any substantial distance, it is probably going to be in a protective bag. A good bag can weigh 2 or 3 pounds empty. The relative difference of 1.5 pounds will make no difference to anyone unless that person is in extremely poor health. If you are only moving around the house or office can you really say that 1.5 pounds makes a difference for the 50 feet that you are moving it? Unless you hold in you hands while you work I can't see how it does..

Its a laptop, so use case per definition is about increasing mobility. Not about DEcreasing it.

1.5 lbs is a significant difference. That's a lot of weight you ditch - or free up capacity.

 

[Kissaragi]

The air is the obvious choice.

 

[Penn Jennings]

More humility is in order when youre busted fudging numbers.

Its a laptop, so use case per definition is about increasing mobility. Not about DEcreasing it.

1.5 lbs is a significant difference. That's a lot of weight you ditch - or free up capacity.

Yes, I "fudged" .5 pound by mistake. .5 pounds is a world of difference if we were talking about gold but were aren't. Considering the fact I gave the right raw numbers but made a typo the mistake is pretty minor.

I think that most people that really travel with systems would agree the size of a system will make a far larger difference than 1.52 pounds of weight. Size almost always matters while you are using the system, moving with the system or it's in a bag in the corner. Weight only matters while moving and even then only if it is excessive. You can honestly say that 1.52 pounds of weight makes the difference between a MacBook being usable and not usable? Really?

1.52 pound is a big deal if you are an invalid or have arthritis. For most healthy, normal people though, although you might notice the weight difference the size will be more important.

The the MBA 13 air is virtually the same size, less weight, less power, less expandable and more money the the MBP 13, those are facts.

In comparing the MBA 13 and MBP 13, to me, the option of increasing RAM in the future, having an internal DVD or optional 2nd hard drive, having more IO ports and having more processing power for LESS money is a bigger deal than 1.5 pounds less weight and .3 inches thinner. The ONLY real argument for the MBA in my opinion is the slightly increased screen resolution.

Every year the memory, CPU and storage requirements of applications AND Mac OS increase. Unless you know that you are going to upgrade in near future, you are betting that even if the MBA 13 is enough power for you today, it will also be enough in the near future. 4 GB of RAM and 128 of initial storage is pretty meager. If you make that bet and you are wrong, then what? You cannot expand the RAM and increasing the internal storage after purchase is not cheap, you aren't going to get 750GB of internal storage for MBA 13 for $125. That is a far bigger issue to think about than 1.52 pounds.

After all of that, you really want to focus on 1.52 pounds?

 

[mordred]

I like the idea of the thunderbolt display as a dock station where i can have mouse, full size keyboard and superdrive and probably a backup drive already connected at home and just plug one thing in to access it all. I wont be able to do that with a non thunderbolt compatible display. Will I?

Yes you can use it, you'll just need to get a Thunderbolt to HDMI/DVI/whatever adapter. Adapters will usually cost you around 20 bucks give or take (mostly depends on where you buy it.)

 

[funkmu]

here is some kool-aid. welcome to the club! soon, i am sure you will be agreeing with me that the keyboard and other accessories are quite reasonably priced and well made. i am afraid there is no hope for you once you start down the path. drink up!

Haha as a gamer I will never convert to crappy and overpriced Mac accessories. My Razer DeathAdder was not only cheaper than the Magic Mouse, but definitely better.

I'm definitely a keyboard kind of guy, so I will never trade my Cherry blue mechanical keyboard for whatever that wireless nonsense that comes with Macs.

On the other hand I love the computer's keyboard even though it's exactly the same as the keyboard accessory. Still, going from programming all day on this MBP keyboard to my mechanical one in my room is like a HUGE sigh of relief.

 

[funkmu]

I like the idea of the thunderbolt display as a dock station where i can have mouse, full size keyboard and superdrive and probably a backup drive already connected at home and just plug one thing in to access it all. I wont be able to do that with a non thunderbolt compatible display. Will I?

Hey man if that convenience is worth the extra 700 dollars, go to to town dawg. I'm not really trying to be condescending, but in my perspective, I'll spend the extra minute or two unplugging my keyboard, mouse, storage USBs, if it'll save me the money.

Thunderbolt isn't all that special. For your purposes, the super "gosu speed" that Thunderbolt provides will be unnoticable compared to USB 2.0. Also if you get a mac mouse and a mac keyboard, they're blue tooth anyway so they don't plug into anything.

You can just get a regular bluetooth keyboard and mouse and you won't need to plug crap in, but again you judge whether the Mac accessories are worth the price when there are definitely considerably cheaper options out there.

 

[sostoobad]

I am pretty new to mac, and to me both machines have their merits, The sales guy at the Apple store kind of summed them up as, the Pro is the s.u.v. and the Air is the sports car. Seems good to me, as my needs are not great, the 11" air could do the trick, but went with the 13" for mostly the bigger screen.

True the Pro is more cab able and upgradeable, and if you need all of that, then thats the one to get, but do most people need all of that ? I certainly didn't, so I went with the Air, works for me.

 

[macsmurf]

The ONLY real argument for the MBA in my opinion is the slightly increased screen resolution.

You call 26 % more pixels on screen slightly increased? Screen real estate is a pretty scarce resource when programming.

My recommendation (as a software developer) is the MBA with 4 GB RAM.

 

[Penn Jennings]

You call 26 % more pixels on screen slightly increased? Screen real estate is a pretty scarce resource when programming.

My recommendation (as a software developer) is the MBA with 4 GB RAM.

I recently went from a MBP 13 to a MBP 15 w/ hi-res in large part because X Code just didn't fit well on the MBP 13 screen. iPad storyboards don't fit on the MBP 13 at all. I regreted not getting a MBP 15 only a few weeks after I got my MBP 13 but I was stuck by then. So I totally understand screen real estate. However, lets step back objectively. Would you call a 26% increase in resolution but the same size screen a major increase? I guess it depends on if you are in "borderline" situation. For a lot of people and applications, 26% more stuff on the same size screen will not be a "major" improvement. An improvement, yes, but not major. If screen resolution or size were really an issue, neither 13 inch model would be a good choice.


I've never done a survey, and this is all my opinion of course, I don't want to pretend that I have facts about preferences but that stuff is still minor compared to things like memory capacity, CPU performance and internal storage. Those are the items that most often cause people to upgrade their systems and they are meager to start with on the MBA. So all things being considered, yeah, 26% more stuff on the same 13 inch screen is slight, OK.. maybe moderate.



EDIT:

I just want to say, the MBA 13 is a great little system. Anyone that wants one should get one. Purchases don't always have to make perfect sense. The "cool" factor with the MBA is certainly worth something. I'm only pointing out that unless you just a casual user you might run into capacity issues later and you will not have nearly as many options as you will with the MBP 13.

 

[macsmurf]

I've never done a survey, and this is all my opinion of course, I don't want to pretend that I have facts about preferences but that stuff is still minor compared to things like memory capacity, CPU performance and internal storage. Those are the items that most often cause people to upgrade their systems and they are meager to start with on the MBA. So all things being considered, yeah, 26% more stuff on the same 13 inch screen is slight, OK.. maybe moderate.

Screen resolution is a personal preference thing but I would say that a higher resolution is always better and I do consider it a significant improvement going from 1280x800 (13" MPB) to 1440x900 (13" MBA). For me, the 13" MPB is about the smallest resolution I can deal with. I usually work on a 24" (1920x1200) external monitor with my MB alu attached with I consider pretty good but I wouldn't decline a 30" monitor if one were to come my way.

I don't use XCode myself. I mostly program in Java/Scala/Ruby and there are more obvious IDE choices out there for that combination but IDEs take up a fair amount of space and I usually have a couple of terminal windows running alongside the IDE. For that, 1280x800 is the absolut minimum IMO.

I agree that the difference in weight between the 13" MBP and the MBA is not a show stopper. It's hard to predict the future but my guess is that for programming in general, 4 GB of RAM will be ample at least the next three years. In addition, the MBA has a SSD in the standard configuration which does make a difference.

Still, the hi-res 15" gives you a resolution of 1680x1050 which is even better, but 15" vs. 13" is a factor when considering portability.

...So 13" MBP vs 13" MBA is a no brainer IMO. Future proofing is all well and good but at the end of the day it's about how your choice influences your work flow today.

BTW, it's not unfeasible that Apple will up the resolution on the iPad within the next three years which means you're screwed again

 

[Penn Jennings]

BTW, it's not unfeasible that Apple will up the resolution on the iPad within the next three years which means you're screwed again

LOL.. I'm sure that you are right

 

[cr2]

What complete garbage.

OP, going by what you said:

"For context, I would like this computer for serious programming, note taking, and all the other various college activities I would partake in. It's rarely going to be sitting on a desk and mostly on the move."

The Air is a far better bet.

I've owned both machines, and I sold the Pro. Several reasons:

1) Weight - carrying the Air in a backpack is barely noticeable, if you're at university and you're carrying it around alot, then your shoulder will eventually take notice of the Pro.

It's your choice, but from experience, I'd absolutely go Air.

I own both the machines -- just one you get used to the weight of Air, Pro feels heavy ..... AIR has raised the bar so high.... I dislike carrying the Pro onto the bed or couch from my home office. Maybe someday, we will get T-bold external hard-disks and I will say goodbye to Pro.

 

[Geekbabe]

I've had my 13 inch MBA for almost one month now,my only real concern is the fact that it only has USB 2 & the lack of an affordable Thunderport docking option. I want fast external storage & thus far the options available are few & very expensive .

 

[TWLreal]

In terms of monitor. Why would you ever fork over an extra 200-500 dollars for the Mac display when you can buy an Asus, Toshiba, or other kind for significantly cheaper. (...) However, you don't need a magical "Thunderbolt optimized Apple cinema awesome" monitor, when a 20-24in 1080p Asus one would suffice and suffice well.

Because the "Asus, Toshiba or other kind [of monitor] for significantly cheaper" doesn't display at 2560 pixels by 1440 pixels?

 

[malman89]

MBA, in whatever version you feel fits your needs, without question. I've never even held or touched a MBA and feel 100% confident in that statement.

You already have a workhorse computer. A 13" MBP is an overpriced $600 (or less) laptop in a sexy aluminum shell.

Go for the speed of the SSD and the extreme portability to complement your much larger, much more powerful Windows laptop.

 

[funkmu]

Because the "Asus, Toshiba or other kind [of monitor] for significantly cheaper" doesn't display at 2560 pixels by 1440 pixels?

That's fairly obvious since the monitors I mentioned aren't 27in displays. For emails, regular browsing, and whatnot is 2560x1440 even worth it? I guess if I was doing some hardcore video editing, photoshopping, modeling and ga... lol gaming. I would buy that monitor size, but then I wouldn't be purchasing a MBA or entry level MBP.

The Intel Integrated nonsense would not support native resolution that high for gaming, modeling, CAD and the like. Personally, pixel depth is not as important to me as screen real estate and 24in 1960 x 1080 is great for gaming, programming, and everything else I do on my PC. I don't bother connecting my Mac to my main monitor.

 

[v2kea412]

I was in Vegas this past weekend debating this very same issue. The guy at the Mac store told me to go MBP if I intended on running the Adobe Creative Suite and had the need for Windows 7 in either Boot Camp of a Fusion/Parallels mode. He said that the MBA would run those things, but in general the MBP would be better suited for those uses.

 

[jdechko]

I was in Vegas this past weekend debating this very same issue. The guy at the Mac store told me to go MBP if I intended on running the Adobe Creative Suite and had the need for Windows 7 in either Boot Camp of a Fusion/Parallels mode. He said that the MBA would run those things, but in general the MBP would be better suited for those uses.

The MBP only really pulls ahead if you upgrade the RAM to 8GB and/or put an SSD drive in the MBP. Otherwise, in their base configurations, it's a wash at best.

The CPU in the MBP is faster, which is good for running filters/scripts in photoshop, and negligible when running Fusion/Parallels. The SSD in the Air will start up programs (including Photoshop/Fusion/Parallels) much faster than the standard HD.

 

[Penn Jennings]

The MBP only really pulls ahead if you upgrade the RAM to 8GB and/or put an SSD drive in the MBP. Otherwise, in their base configurations, it's a wash at best.

The CPU in the MBP is faster, which is good for running filters/scripts in photoshop, and negligible when running Fusion/Parallels. The SSD in the Air will start up programs (including Photoshop/Fusion/Parallels) much faster than the standard HD.

For a net of only $140 more you can get a MBP 13 with SSD and 8 GB of memory (8 GB kits are $49.99 at Macsales). At the point the performance debate is over. You will also have a built in DVD ($79 option for MBA), a FW800 port.

Edit:
To the OP, Since your current system weighs about 9 pounds, 4.5 pound MBP is half the weight of your current system (weight is always relative and Subjective). The MBP with SSD and 8 GB is by far the best "future proof" option and you get better performance and option for only a slight increase in price. My 2 cents.

 

[TWLreal]

That's fairly obvious since the monitors I mentioned aren't 27in displays. For emails, regular browsing, and whatnot is 2560x1440 even worth it? I guess if I was doing some hardcore video editing, photoshopping, modeling and ga... lol gaming. I would buy that monitor size, but then I wouldn't be purchasing a MBA or entry level MBP.

You asked why someone would pay the "extra 200-500 dollars for the Mac display when you can buy an Asus, Toshiba, or other kind for significantly cheaper" so I answered.

If you have no need for the extra resolution and realize the premium is for that, why question it?

In any case, high resolution displays and $11,000 Eizos are available for those who do need it.