14-Year-Old Discovers iPad Smart Cover Magnets Can Shut Off Implanted Defibrillators

[StyxMaker]

The fact that this chick's daddy is a Dr. further indicates this story is a joke....

The story may be a joke but let's not denigrate a 14 year old girl for her science fair project. Science fairs exist to give students a chance to experience how science is done, not to make paradigm changing discoveries on the cutting edge of human enquiry. Of course her doctor father new what the results would be. In all the science fairs I've been part of I've never seen a science fair project where I couldn't have told the student what the results were going to be before they started. It's not the results that are important for the student. it's the experience.

 

[Gasu E.]

err...for those that didn't know a very tiny magnet on the iPad can hurt them.

You mean those people with implanted medical devices who don't know not to stick magnets on their chests?

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But that's not exactly a fair comparison. A kitchen MAGNET is something known. A MAGNETIC keychain, etc is known. It has the word magnetic in the name.

You seem to have some theory that people with implanted medical devices are incautious with what they stick on their chests. I'm not sure whether you are underestimating other people's intelligence, or overestimating your own.

 

[Hell0W0rld]

So how did this 14-year old "discover" this if it's written in Apple's safety documentation?

He has the rare ability to read and the interest how things work. Something clearly went wrong with his education. /sarcasm

 

[69650]

As far as her presentation to 8k docs, that's probably something that her dad (in the field) arranged to get his daughter more recognition. [This will look great on a college application, and beyond. And, while I'm not suggesting that's why she did it, experiences that stand out on resumes are very big for those shooting for the most selective colleges and internships.]

Do you honestly think that a serious conference of 8000 doctors are going to be happy to sit and listen to a kid tell them something they already know just to please her dad?

Anyone who believes that is a complete idiot.

 

[Dgail]

Health care workers

Perhaps this is why its being presented to 8000 doctors? Perhaps doctors don't always know everything about new tech that comes out and whether or not it's a potential threat?

If a person is recommended for a pacemaker or ICD (implanted cardiac defibrullator) they are duely warned by their primary care provider, cardiologist, the surgeon and likely the nurses who have to obtain their written consent to have this placed.

I'd be more worried about the constant anxiety they experience after having an ICD placed in anticipation of having it actually fire which is a known after effect. I have known of patients how have had them removed and risk going into ventricular fibrullation and dying rather than putting up with the shocks.

 

[Shrink]

As far as her presentation to 8k docs, that's probably something that her dad (in the field) arranged to get his daughter more recognition. [This will look great on a college application, and beyond. And, while I'm not suggesting that's why she did it, experiences that stand out on resumes are very big for those shooting for the most selective colleges and internships.]

If you actually believe that, then you have never been to a national conference of health professionals. After paying a bunch of dough to register, pay to transportation to the conference site, pay for food and lodging, and come to hear new information in one's field...if you think some doc is going to get their kid on the speakers list to boost the kid's school resume...

Really...

 

[3282868]

Buy Dick Cheney an iPad....

Love it!

 

[SlCKB0Y]

So where do we stop?

Do we have to post a notice on any device that incorporates a magnet that it could be dangerous to
...

I'm not sure why you replied to my post if you were not going to address even the simple questions I posed to you.

"Do you think education is bad? Or is education just bad when Apple (rightly or wrongly) gets singled out?"

How can what this girl is doing with her own time and resources be a bad thing? Even if you think it shouldn't be necessary - how can educating people be a bad thing?

 

[pirg]

I'm not sure why you replied to my post if you were not going to address even the simple questions I posed to you.

"Do you think education is bad? Or is education just bad when Apple (rightly or wrongly) gets singled out?"

How can what this girl is doing with her own time and resources be a bad thing? Even if you think it shouldn't be necessary - how can educating people be a bad thing?

It's not a bad thing. I think people are taking umbrage to the fact that the headline here reads "apple" as do the headlines everywhere else when this is not apple specific.

any device, apple or not, that has magnets can shut off implanted defibs.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

I don't understand which way is the spinning of this. A little boy discovering the magnet in iPad could stop pacemakers, or the fact that all electronic devices could harm a pacemaker,

As you say, all electronic devices can potentially cause issues for pacemakers due to EM interference.

But what's being discussed here is a completely different issue as in this situation, the pacemaker disables itself (a feature, not unintended consequence) due to the strength of the magnets found in the smart cover.

So whilst the vast majority of people with pacemakers understand the potential risks associated with electronic devices in general, how many know that if they place a magnet of the right strength in the right place on the chest, the pacemaker will completely disable itself?

I mean, you're a well informed person and you just failed to make this extremely important distinction. What makes you think they won't as well?

 

[pirg]

Firstly, all electronic devices can potentially cause issues for pacemakers due to EM interference.

This is a completely different set of circumstances to the pacemaker disabling itself (a feature, not unintended consequence) due to the strength of the magnets found in the smart cover.

strength of the magnets? where'd you get that from? this article mentions nothing about magnet strength. do you have proof that the "strength" of the magnets in the smart cover (which incidentally, is also not what this article talks about) are any more stronger than any other magnet found in any other electronic device with magnets?

due to the strength of the magnets found in the smart cover.

Article mentions nothing about magnet strength, nor does it state or imply that the magnets found in the iPad are any stronger than any other magnet.

I mean, you're a well informed person and you just failed to make this extremely important distinction. What make's you think they won't as well?

People with pacemakers are told prior and post insertion that magnets affect the device that was just implanted into their chest.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

strength of the magnets?

Because clearly there will be a threshold below which the magnetic force is not enough to trigger the pacemaker disable feature (unless you're implying that they are infinitely sensitive to magnetic fields).

 

[pirg]

Because clearly there will be a threshold below which the magnetic force is not enough to trigger the pacemaker disable feature (unless you're implying that they are infinitely sensitive to magnetic fields).

Ok got it. I interpreted your original statement to mean that the strength of the magnets in the smart cover are greater than the strength of the magnets in other devices that have magnets. While that could or could not be true, the article makes no mention of that.

 

[dec.]

That's an amazing discovery. Dangers like these should be documented.

 

[Brian Y]

I'm not sure why you replied to my post if you were not going to address even the simple questions I posed to you.

"Do you think education is bad? Or is education just bad when Apple (rightly or wrongly) gets singled out?"

How can what this girl is doing with her own time and resources be a bad thing? Even if you think it shouldn't be necessary - how can educating people be a bad thing?

This isn't education though. Anybody who has a defib will have already been educated on the matter. It's rule number one - do not put anything that has a magnet anywhere near your chest.

And let's face it, it's damn well obvious that a smart cover has magnets in it, and it's documented within the manual, and on Apple's website/marketing. What more do you want?!? If you have a defib, cannot recognise that the smart cover has a magnet (I think anyone > 5yo can identify a magnet) and put it near your chest - well, maybe that's natural selection at its finest.

 

[Shrink]

There seems to be an argument here about whether there can be too much education regarding what might be a life threatening situation. Reminders of potential life threatening hazards do not, it seems to me, constitute wasted time.

 

[JAT]

Do you honestly think that a serious conference of 8000 doctors are going to be happy to sit and listen to a kid tell them something they already know just to please her dad?

Anyone who believes that is a complete idiot.

Apparently her dad is a complete idiot, then.

 

[Shrink]

Do you honestly think that a serious conference of 8000 doctors are going to be happy to sit and listen to a kid tell them something they already know just to please her dad?

Anyone who believes that is a complete idiot.

And, anyone who believes that what you say is in any way accurate is ...well

EDIT: See post# 281

 

[SrWebDeveloper]

False reporting, re: "Gianna Chien made the discovery as part of a science fair project..."

Chien's grandfather actually made the discovery first, the poor man, it was when he fell to the floor unconscious after writing in pain when young Gianna made her discovery.

 

[callan37]

For what it's worth - I tried this with my defibrillator, and the magnets on my ipad 3 (and its smart cover) were not strong enough to switch my defib into magnet mode. In any event, if this does happen, it returns to normal as soon as the magnet is removed.

I'm still alive after conducting this experiment, so I haven't thrown away my iPad yet.

 

[Lil Chillbil]

Did EA fund this research?

 

[charlituna]

...though playing Devil's Advocate, it's not immediately obvious that the iPad does have magnets squirreled away inside the casing.

.

To anyone that doesn't pay attention to Apple's own info perhaps. At the least it should be clear there are magnets in the Smart Cover which was her so called discovery

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Majority of people don't read those documentations. The person has to read or hear it on the news, or be told about it in person through word of mouth.

It's still FUD as doctors over warn patients about the risks of any electronics, metal detectors etc when the surgery happens

 

[SlCKB0Y]

If you have a defib, cannot recognise that the smart cover has a magnet (I think anyone > 5yo can identify a magnet) and put it near your chest - well, maybe that's natural selection at its finest.

Ahh. So your position is that rather than let a very bright 14yo girl with a scientific mind attend a conference and give a talk and raise awareness on this issue, we should let "natural selection" take it's course and the world will be a better place with these idiots dead?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Do you at least agree that in this thread two issues are being discussed interchangeably when they probably shouldn't be?

1. A person with a pacemaker exposed to electronic devices or magnetic fields may experience problems with their device as a result of EM interference.

2. Their pacemaker contains a feature whereby a magnet of sufficient strength when placed in the correct place on the body will disable it completely.

I have absolutely no doubt that people understand (1), but i'm not convinced of (2) and these different scenarios have extremely different implications.

This girl is specifically focussed on (2).

 

[komodrone]

You mean those people with implanted medical devices who don't know not to stick magnets on their chests?

No, I mean those 60 year old people that got iPads from their sons/daughters that have no clue iPads have magnets.

 

[Renzatic]

Ahh. So your position is that rather than let a very bright 14yo girl with a scientific mind attend a conference and give a talk and raise awareness on this issue, we should let "natural selection" take it's course and the world will be a better place with these idiots dead?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

I have no idea why I'm pointing this out, because it's a pretty dumb as hell conversation as it is, but...

What he's talking about is survival of the fittest, not eugenics. They're entirely different things. Like dying in some horrible government pogrom to eradicate people with extra small pinky fingers from the face of the earth vs. making out with an electrical outlet and getting electrocuted to death kinda different.