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Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Liquinn, Jan 21, 2013.
Which is the better machine and why? Is the 15" cMBP obsolete?
The better machine depends on your usage and budget, for example the cMBP is easier to upgrade with an SSD and RAM for less, than what Apple wants, the MacBook Pro with Retina Display does miss that optical disk drive (ODD), that some people still use, but it has a higher resolution display and weighs less and a new cooling system. And it has two TB ports.
The main differences are that the rMBP has the higher resolution screen (4x the pixels, but it is scaled so that text and graphics appear the same size as the non-Retina resolutions by default), and come standard with flash storage. They have the same CPU and graphics options. The rMBP is not upgradable (i.e. you can't add RAM later, and it is difficult, though not impossible, to upgrade the SSD later as Apple doesn't support it and uses proprietary parts). The rMBP also has 2 Thunderbolt ports and HDMI, while the cMBP lacks those, but has Firewire and Ethernet, along with an internal DVD drive. There are Thunderbolt adapters if you need Firewire or Ethernet with the rMBP.
rMBP has a slightly higher clocked GPU, but also more pixels to push if you want it to look good. (@1440*900 it doesn't look that good. Probably not objectively, but compared to running it HiDPI it always looks crap.)
What does the "c" in "cMBP" stand for?
I just bought a cMBP. If money was no object I would have rather purchased the maxed out rMBP.
Same. I snagged a cMBP for $1650, Brand New with no Tax, so I pulled the trigger on that. Though, if evenly speck'ed, the Classic should perform better, since its pushing less pixels to the display.
I'm actually really unimpressed with my 2012 cMBP at the moment. I've only had it a week but it seems as though my older computer, a 2010 HP Envy 17 1.9ghz, is outperforming the Mac by leaps and bounds. The Mac has been laggy, buggy, crashy, and just all around sluggish. I have a fresh install of Mountain Lion and have done all the maintenance I can think of, but I am considering putting it back on the market. Which is really surprising to me.
not really. You can run the retina @1440*900 (and it doesn't even look that bad next to a cMBP, at least you can't see the black grid), and because the GPU is clocked higher retina should performer better, if needed.
What exact model with what specs did you get?
Did you perform these steps yet?
If you want to enhance the performance of your Mac, be sure to check these two articles, do not just use applications, that promise to do it for you.
Performance Tips For Mac OS X
Mac Performance Guide
And to check, if something goes awry:
Open Activity Monitor and select All Processes and then either sort by Real Mem to show you the process(es) using up your RAM or/and sort by CPU to show you the processes slowing down your Mac.
Using Activity Monitor to show you CPU and RAM usage
Open Activity Monitor and go to the System Memory* tab and look for Page Outs and Swap used and report back.
* Mac OS X: Reading system memory usage in Activity Monitor
Thanks, I'll check out those articles right now. The Mac is a 2.6ghz i7 with 8gb ram. 1024mb 650m GPU. The only bottleneck is a 750gb 5400rpm drive but I am having severe in-app performance lag, not just boot times. I posted a thread about my latest crash with the report included here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1529348
Absolutely love my cMBP - paid only $1435 for a $3000 MBP.
My needs/wants leads me to prefer the cMBP.
May I know where to buy cMBP (ideally anti-glare) for $1,435, please?
Yeah CL - It was anti-glare
I've read sooo many threads with debates on this. Since the retina was released I debated for 5(?) months with myself whether I wanted retina or classic. Last Christmas (2012) I made the leap and I got a cMBP 15". The rMBP is hardly better in my opinion, or at least based on my needs. For one, I watch hundreds of movies a year, and a desperate disk drive would frustrate me. Another, ethernet is not outdated, and I don't know why apple got rid of it. I don't use it very often, but I do like to have it. FireWire... Not sure what that is so I'll pass on that, and what's the big deal about having 2 thunderbolt ports? I don't know anyone who's ever used 1. I'd rather have a 3rd USB port. Upgradeability was a big one, as in sure in the future (1 or 2 years) a 1TB SSD will come out for laptops that's relatively cheap, and I'd love to have that. I run bootcamp so space is a must. I don't care for external hard drive garbage. I move around a lot with my laptop. The retina screen hurt my eyes when I saw it. I know you can turn down the resolution, but why isn't the native resolution lower in the first place? It makes it looks bad. And there's no speed difference. Overclocked 650m? Won't make a difference at all in day to day tasks, and will certainly not make a difference in gaming, other than a downgrade in performance due to the high resolution, and don't say you can turn down the resolution to improve performance, because it'll look much worse on a higher resolution display.
These are great links, essential reading for every Mac user every few years.
The rMBP runs at 1440x900 at its default setting, only it looks 10x sharper than the cMBP, so I'm not sure where your observation on that is coming from. The way that OS X handles scaling makes the screen look VERY sharp at any resolution setting. In Windows, it isn't as pretty, but also not bad. I personally use 2880x1800 but with 150% DPI scaling and it's wonderful. Also, the screen shows hardly any reflections on the rMBP (Apple claims 75% less compared to the cMBP glossy screen).
The only arguments for a cMBP are price and upgradability. A 1TB SSD in the near future for a reasonable price is probably not going to happen unless you consider $500+ reasonable.
I personally picked up a rMBP 15" last week and it's by far the best laptop (or computer) I've ever owned, and I had a 2011 15" before. The cMBP is in no ways bad or outdated, but if you have the money, I'd suggest the rMBP. By the time I feel like I need to upgrade anything, I'll be buying a new laptop anyway. Anyone that thinks a computer with 8/16GB of RAM will be outdated in the next few years is fooling themselves except those in specific lines of work that would demand more than that, but for 85% of people, even 8GB is overkill for day-to-day needs. If you can't see the difference between the screens of the cMBP vs. the rMBP, then I guess the cMBP is a better choice because you'd be saving some money. I personally can tell a HUGE difference between the two and the extra real estate (running scaled to 1920x1200) is very beneficial for work purposes. YMMV.
There are so many wrongs in your posts I can't even start. I have a classic next to a retina both running 1440*900 nonHiDPI and retina looks better. @1680*1050 native looks better, but if you put retina into 1680*1050 HiDPI mode it looks better than native 1680*1050.
If you don't even know what Firewire800 is then i believe you can't care for TB ports. For people who want to expand their laptop (as opposed to upgrade it to a bigger drive for more movies...), 2 TB ports + discrete video out offers so much more options to one TB port without discrete video out...
Ethernet works with an adapter, when and if you need one. It's the same story as with displays.
USB is a consumer port, this is supposed to be top-of-the-line pro machine. Two thunderbolts offer better performance than 4 USB 3.0 ports.
Glare? Retina doesn't have dual glasses. The amount of glare is the same as on anti-glare display, although its diffused on the matte display.
If you use it as a glorified Windows DVD player however I can see why retina frustrates you. I couldn't care less about windows...
From your other thread you and looking at you panic report and you reinstall you need to do what you'd do in Windows.
Zero the drive
Install from scratch not the silly down load
Install you updates as a Combo
Install your main productivity software
The add your third party enhancers 1 by1.
IMHO what you should probably do is take you mac and the display back to the store and get your money back, buy a nice Lenovo or Elitebook and a U3011 and call it a life lesson learned. You're not going to be happy until you do.
I have this discussion with myself too, since i want to upgrade my old 2007 MBP. I think both machines a very nice. Both have there pros and cons. It's a very hard decision to make.
For now my thoughts are:
- Superdrive, Firewire, ethernet, lockslot.... I never used them the last 3-4 years. I rather have the two thunderbolt and HDMI ports. With the cMBP i think i'll pay for a lot of things I'll never use. Those things aren't really a selling point or dealbraker for me.
- Upgradeability... yeah it's nice to tweak your machine, but I only replaced some RAM on my old model. Wil the rMBP be enough for 5-6 years? Though I will take the 16 RAM to make it more "future-proof". If i put all my big media (movies etc) on my external drives, the 256GB will be enough.
- Cost.. I definitely want a SSD in my new Macbook. The cMBP with a SSD (third party or not) is pretty close to a rMBP if not more expensive. Although i can get a bigger SSD for that money.
- That Retina screen! It's just awesome and very nice. I do a lot of coding, reading, watch movies and do some graphic work and photography. I think it would be great.
- Size and weight. The thin uniboy of the rMBP is very nice. Although i think i can life with the thicker body of the cMBP. It will be portable enough for me. So size and weight won't be a real dealbreaker for me.
- Glare... The glare is so much less on the retina display. But i can choose for a matte display on the cMBP. It only adds 100+ more bucks to the price, make the cost even more closer to the Retina.
I thinks the rMBP would be a nice choose for me.. but.. with the rMBP I am a bit concerned about lags and IR. Should I be? Or are these problems all fixed with the latest rMBP models and ML. Or...If I choose for the rMBP, will it be better to wait for the next update this summer? I'm not in a hurry at this moment. Maybe a bit impatient...
cMBP or rMBP... that's the question..
edit: Some typo..
Upgradeability: if you don't care for it, no problems.
cost: cMBP is more expensive with SSD (by 3rd party, don't even consider apple)
screen: retina screen is in fact awesome.
size&body: retina just feels like new tech. cMBP feels old in comparison.
glare: with anti-glare and SSD the cost will be higher. not to mention the 2.3ghz model of cMBP only has 0.5GB of VRAM.
IR: i ordered mine BTO got it with a samsung display and its flawless.
I wanted to wait as well... But my 2008 uMBP had a dying hdd, was barely keeping up with my tasks and i sold the Mac Pro. rMBP replaced both very nicely.
Yes! I forgot about that one. But i think the rMBP realy needs the 1 GB VRAM to drive all those pixels. Or am i wrong about this and is the 1GB VRAM really some extra power compared with the cMBP?
My current 3.1 MBP isn't dying yet. The battery is dead, the superdrive is broken (and i never missed it) and it has a few cracks around the screen. But it will hold for a few more moths i hope.
during normal use, integrated GPU is used more or less exclusively. Actually by doing casual stuff discrete GPU isn't even activated, personally so far i have only seen it activate on software that has dependencies (Logic Pro triggers it immediately)
My uMBP isn't broken either, but I decided to take the plunge and go with it. Am happy with my decision, this laptop can take whatever I throw at it.