15-Inch MacBook Air Demand Reportedly 'Weaker Than Expected' So Far

[enb141]

It may come as a surprise to you, but Mac is a product and doesn’t make cellphones and Mac doesn’t offer computers, it is a computer. Apple, the company that makes Macs also makes smartphones. And I would not spend time on a forum for a product I don’t use, personally.

Well this website is very old (in internet terms), this website was running before iPhones and even intel macs.

So according to you I shouldn't be here because my Apple TV which is neither and smartphone nor a computer, thanks for the advice.

 

[ericwn]

Well this website is very old (in internet terms), this website was running before iPhones and even intel macs.

So according to you I shouldn't be here because my Apple TV which is neither and smartphone nor a computer, thanks for the advice.

The age of the website is irrelevant.
You do you. If you feel your time well spent talking about products you have no interest in so be it. I am sharing what I do and don’t. And I for sure don’t troll some dell forum and frame that as having a general interest in the subject matter.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Owing a base 2020 13" MBP feel the same. Base 15" Air will be less performant, upgrading it brings pricing ever closer to the 14" MBP. Likely sit it out and see what M3 brings to the table or opt for the 14" equally that has it's own downsides...

Q-6

Yep.

It's the iPhone Plus of laptops, by time someone is going for that size and cost they are probably just buying a pro

 

[enb141]

The age of the website is irrelevant.
You do you. If you feel your time well spent talking about products you have no interest in so be it. I am sharing what I do and don’t. And I for sure don’t troll some dell forum and frame that as having a general interest in the subject matter.

Actually I learn a lot from products that I never buy.

In this thread alone I learn that macs have can manage less monitors than pretty much any intel laptop, that's something that I didn't know.

So if someone asks me about a mac, I have to tell them about it, and they should decide if matters or not to them.

I'm also learning why people buy this laptop, and why they choose this one or for example an XPS.

In one thread of Mac Pro, I learn that the Mac Pro is basically a mac studio in huge case with a few expansion PCI express and SATA ports.

Just because I'm not going to buy those computers, doesn't means I shouldn't know anything about them.

 

[ericwn]

In one thread of Mac Pro, I learn that the Mac Pro is basically a mac studio in huge case with a few expansion PCI express and SATA ports.

Just because I'm not going to buy those computers, doesn't means I shouldn't know anything about them.

These are the typical things one learns on the manufacturer’s website, but glad you picked them up for this seemingly important computer consultation business you have going

 

[enb141]

These are the typical things one learns on the manufacturer’s website, but glad you picked them up for this seemingly important computer consultation business you have going

Websites, hide known problems, you have to search over forums for "issues" or details that make you think about them.

For example, new macs with M2 only have one chip for 256GB as SSD, so older M1 with 256 GB has faster storage than newer M2 with 256 GB.

You can't read that on apple website.

 

[Queen6]

Yep.

It's the iPhone Plus of laptops, by time someone is going for that size and cost they are probably just buying a pro

That's it; pricing and performance just make the 15" MBA unattractive. If prices drop would be a different matter, at $1,700 for 16/512 it's too much given there are deals on the 14". If Apple wasn't quite so egregious with their pricing on memory & storage upgrades they might just sell more...

My base 13" MBP is faster again on Ventura (7854), so only real gain for me would be the larger display & Magsafe (free's up a TB port) nothing much else of note...

Q-6

 

[ericwn]

Websites, hide known problems, you have to search over forums for "issues" or details that make you think about them.

For example, new macs with M2 only have one chip for 256GB as SSD, so older M1 with 256 GB has faster storage than newer M2 with 256 GB.

You can't read that on apple website.

Sure and that’s particularly interesting if you have no interest in purchasing said product. Got you.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

I would imagine that the people in the market for a MBA M2 probably grabbed the 13". So no point in getting the 15". Did Apple confirm they would release a 15" when they announced the MBA M2? If not then people that were in the market wouldn't wait. Or they buy the MBP if they needed a larger screen. That leaves everyone else that would happen to be in desire for 15" MBA M2. Can't imagine that would be a huge number at the moment. And I'm sure the economy is weighing on that as well.

 

[ArkSingularity]

For my need battery runtime is a big factor and the 13" MBP has serious longevity. Must admit the 14" MBP additional ports would be be welcome. 16" MBP has the battery, yet is too big for most hotel room safes which presents another problem.

Q-6

I actually haven't had many problems with the battery life on my 14". It isn't as good as the 13", but it's still very good and easily able to get through a full workday. I average around 10 hours per charge or so (compared to maybe 12-13 hours on the 13" for my workloads).

Where the difference becomes much more noticeable is when you pull out heavier workloads. The 14" will die quite a bit faster than the 13" will when you put the SOC under a lot more of a load, but there isn't really much of a difference in power usage for lighter workloads.

 

[Queen6]

I actually haven't had many problems with the battery life on my 14". It isn't as good as the 13", but it's still very good and easily able to get through a full workday. I average around 10 hours per charge or so (compared to maybe 12-13 hours on the 13" for my workloads).

Where the difference becomes much more noticeable is when you pull out heavier workloads. The 14" will die quite a bit faster than the 13" will when you put the SOC under a lot more of a load, but there isn't really much of a difference in power usage for lighter workloads.

That's how I read it. Always mindful that on the go battery runtime is the defining factor for any portable. Can squeeze a lot out of the 13" MBP, even the Intel models have impressed me in the day (11 hours on a 2014 MBP). I'm in no hurry to upgrade so will sit it out and see what M3 offers across Apple's portable line-up.

Thx for the real-world comparison

Q-6

 

[theorist9]

I have a 16" Pro... I didn't really need the multi core power or graphical power, though, but I did need the extra monitors and larger screen. The old Intel Apple laptops could run two monitors, and cheap Chinese laptops can already run at 120hz, so I don't feel like I'm asking for much from a >$1,800 laptop (international pricing for the 15" Air without base spec SSD).

Even though the Air 15" finally exists, I'm now stuck between a mediocre device and a device that is more expensive/heavy/powerful than I need it to be. Do I have to return to Windows?

I understand — you're looking for a "Goldilocks"* device that has the performance, size, and wieght of the Air, but the display and connectivity of the MBP. Well, as you know, that's the key downside of Mac hardware: Design options. Lots of manufacturers produce Windows laptops so, if you don't like what one makes, there's a chance you can find it from one of the others. By contrast, if you want to run macOS, you're limited to what Apple offers.

For you, I suppose it comes down to how much you want your ideal hardware configuration, vs. how much you prefer to operate within MacOS vs. Windows. I use both OS's, and find the user experience in MacOS so overwhelmingly superior that it's not a choice.

*Out of curiosity, to ensure such a creature really exists, can you give an example of a <$1800** 15"/16" PC laptop that equals (or comes very close to) the 15" Air for quietness, battery life, weight (3.3 lbs = 1.51 kg), and performance (say, GB 6 CPU SC score >=2565, GB6 OPEN CL GPU score >=26,000, as shown on the Geekbench website***), while providing 3+ TB4 ports, a high-resoution (220 ppi+) 120 Hz display, and the ability to drive 2 external monitors?

**It should be from an established vendor like Lenovo, Dell, HP, Asus, etc., so we can actually trust the specs, and this should be a "normal" discounted selling price, not some freak one-time-only deal. As you probably know, you can get Chinese-made "256 GB SSD's" on eBay for ~$10 that are of course just scams.

***You can look up the laptop's GB6 CPU SC score here:

Processor Benchmarks - Geekbench

And look up its GB6 GPU OPEN CL score here:

OpenCL Benchmarks - Geekbench

 

[theotherphil]

*Out of curiosity, to ensure such a creature really exists, can you give an example of a <$1800** 15"/16" PC laptop that equals (or comes very close to) the 15" Air for quietness, battery life, weight (3.3 lbs = 1.51 kg), and performance (say, GB 6 CPU SC score >=2565, GB6 OPEN CL GPU score >=26,000, as shown on the Geekbench website***), while providing 3+ TB4 ports, a high-resoution (220 ppi+) 120 Hz display, and the ability to drive 2 external monitors?

**It should be from an established vendor like Lenovo, Dell, HP, Asus, etc., so we can actually trust the specs, and this should be a "normal" discounted selling price, not some freak one-time-only deal. As you probably know, you can get Chinese-made "256 GB SSD's" on eBay for ~$10 that are of course just scams.

We're going to be waiting a long time. These individuals tend to lock onto a single spec, such as "can only drive one monitor" or "multicore performance" or "Raytracing", and never look at the entire product.

It's as if Apple doesn't do market research on their own customers or collect usage data directly on-device. I'd suggest that the usage data showed that most Apple customers at the bottom end never used more than a single external monitor, even when they had the ability to. Much like <1% of Mac users ever used bootcamp but man, was that a big deal for the vocal forum dwellers.

 

[ArkSingularity]

We're going to be waiting a long time. These individuals tend to lock onto a single spec, such as "can only drive one monitor" or "multicore performance" or "Raytracing", and never look at the entire product.

It's as if Apple doesn't do market research on their own customers or collect usage data directly on-device. I'd suggest that the usage data showed that most Apple customers at the bottom end never used more than a single external monitor, even when they had the ability to. Much like <1% of Mac users ever used bootcamp but man, was that a big deal for the vocal forum dwellers.

These folks have made up their minds long before any stats or any other information has been shared. They're starting at a conclusion they want to reach and then finding data to support it.

 

[ric22]

I understand — you're looking for a "Goldilocks"* device that has the performance, size, and wieght of the Air, but the display and connectivity of the MBP. Well, as you know, that's the key downside of Mac hardware: Design options. Lots of manufacturers produce Windows laptops so, if you don't like what one makes, there's a chance you can find it from one of the others. By contrast, if you want to run macOS, you're limited to what Apple offers.

For you, I suppose it comes down to how much you want your ideal hardware configuration, vs. how much you prefer to operate within MacOS vs. Windows. I use both OS's, and find the user experience in MacOS so overwhelmingly superior that it's not a choice.

*Out of curiosity, to ensure such a creature really exists, can you give an example of a <$1800** 15"/16" PC laptop that equals (or comes very close to) the 15" Air for quietness, battery life, weight (3.3 lbs = 1.51 kg), and performance (say, GB 6 CPU SC score >=2565, GB6 OPEN CL GPU score >=26,000, as shown on the Geekbench website***), while providing 3+ TB4 ports, a high-resoution (220 ppi+) 120 Hz display, and the ability to drive 2 external monitors?

**It should be from an established vendor like Lenovo, Dell, HP, Asus, etc., so we can actually trust the specs, and this should be a "normal" discounted selling price, not some freak one-time-only deal. As you probably know, you can get Chinese-made "256 GB SSD's" on eBay for ~$10 that are of course just scams.

***You can look up the laptop's GB6 CPU SC score here:

Processor Benchmarks - Geekbench

And look up its GB6 GPU OPEN CL score here:

OpenCL Benchmarks - Geekbench

It's hardly a goldilocks device... it's the MacBook Air that would exist now if it wasn't for Apple's desire to drive Macbook Pro sales by limiting the Air's capabilities. It's easily technologically feasible in 2023, especially at this price point, in light of how no Intel processor needs purchasing.

You mention fake SSDs for no logical reason, aside from Chinese-bashing, it seems. How much do you think Apple pay for a pathetic 256GB SSD compared to what they pay for a mediocre 512GB one? For an an expensive laptop the upsell is a joke. It was a silly upsell 7 years ago, and now it's offensive.

 

[brgjoe]

I'm typing this on a cheapo 15.6" Gateway laptop (ok, yes, they still make them. And stop laughing at me) that I bought at Walmart. I generally like the size of the screen. But it may be a bit too large for constant traveling. I do have a smaller HP 13" touchscreen laptop that I have been traveling with. Love the size and portability, but it would be nicer to have a larger screen.

So for me my Goldilocks size would probably be a 14" Macbook Air. Decent screen size and nice portablility.

 

[theorist9]

It's hardly a goldilocks device... it's the MacBook Air that would exist now if it wasn't for Apple's desire to drive Macbook Pro sales by limiting the Air's capabilities. It's easily technologically feasible in 2023, especially at this price point, in light of how no Intel processor needs purchasing.

You mention fake SSDs for no logical reason, aside from Chinese-bashing, it seems. How much do you think Apple pay for a pathetic 256GB SSD compared to what they pay for a mediocre 512GB one? For an an expensive laptop the upsell is a joke. It was a silly upsell 7 years ago, and now it's offensive.

 

[theorist9]

It's hardly a goldilocks device... it's the MacBook Air that would exist now if it wasn't for Apple's desire to drive Macbook Pro sales by limiting the Air's capabilities. It's easily technologically feasible in 2023, especially at this price point, in light of how no Intel processor needs purchasing.

Of course it's a Goldilocks device. You wrote you're looking for something intermediate between a Air and an MBP: "Even though the Air 15" finally exists, I'm now stuck between a mediocre device and a device that is more expensive/heavy/powerful than I need it to be." [Post #607.] That's a Goldilocks device by definition.

You're just focusing on the semantics to avoid answering the key substantive question I posed, namely: The basis for your complaint is this:

...cheap Chinese laptops can already run at 120hz, so I don't feel like I'm asking for much from a >$1,800 laptop (international pricing for the 15" Air without base spec SSD).

So I naturally asked this:

Out of curiosity, to ensure such a creature really exists, can you give an example of a <$1800** 15"/16" PC laptop that equals (or comes very close to) the 15" Air for quietness, battery life, weight (3.3 lbs = 1.51 kg), and performance (say, GB 6 CPU SC score >=2565, GB6 OPEN CL GPU score >=26,000, as shown on the Geekbench website***), while providing 3+ TB4 ports, a high-resoution (220 ppi+) 120 Hz display, and the ability to drive 2 external monitors?

A question you've notably not yet answered.

You mention fake SSDs for no logical reason, aside from Chinese-bashing, it seems.

Oh, please. It's not China-bashing at all. I only mentioned that example because you wrote there are "cheap Chinese laptops" that exceed the Air's capability for <$1,800, and I just wanted to be sure those were legit Chinese-made products (like those made in China for HP, Dell, etc.), and not some fake knock-off.

Again, this is a red herring meant to distract from the fact that you've not answered my question.

 

[theorist9]

We're going to be waiting a long time. These individuals tend to lock onto a single spec, such as "can only drive one monitor" or "multicore performance" or "Raytracing", and never look at the entire product.

It's as if Apple doesn't do market research on their own customers or collect usage data directly on-device. I'd suggest that the usage data showed that most Apple customers at the bottom end never used more than a single external monitor, even when they had the ability to. Much like <1% of Mac users ever used bootcamp but man, was that a big deal for the vocal forum dwellers.

These folks have made up their minds long before any stats or any other information has been shared. They're starting at a conclusion they want to reach and then finding data to support it.

I was hoping for better from @ric22, but it seems you both were right.