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tx2005

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Sep 20, 2013
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So I'll be returning to school to study Computer Science and my 2015 MBP is on it's last legs. It's about time for an upgrade. I'm trying to decide between a new 15" M2 MacBook Air or the MacBook Pro 14" M2 Pro (a refurbished one is around the same price). I'm going to 16 GB of Ram on whichever model I choose.

Any advice on which to choose? Thanks.
 
If you're going to lug this thing to class every day, I would be inclined to go with the Air. I'm not sure exactly what you're going to be doing with it, but most college classes is usually about writing papers or doing some stupid online lab thing. Unless you're planning to do video editing or gaming, you're not going to get anything extra out of the Pro.

Also, make sure a Mac is acceptable. Computer science sounds like something they would want you to have Windows for. Usually the class will have a requirement listing if it is required
 
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16" M1 Pro is $2000 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JQKBQSB

14" M1 Pro is $1800 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JQL8KP9

The Apple edu store is showing the 15" MBA with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD (don't get the 256GB) at $1580 and the 13" M1 MBA is $1260 for the same specs. If you can get the 14" off Amazon, I'd go for that.

Screenshot 2023-06-13 at 23.27.05.png


How much is the 14" M2 refurb?
 
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I’d go to an Apple Store (if there’s one nearby) or anywhere that sells both these and just see how the 14” feels. I “lug” around a 16” M1 MBP and the 14” is noticeably lighter. But, the 15” Air might feel even more so.

I’d personally be inclined to go for the 14” MBP for bang for the buck (more power in the SoC, miniLED display, more connectivity etc). Just kinda depends on what that extra screen size and reduced weight matter to you.
 
So I'll be returning to school to study Computer Science and my 2015 MBP is on it's last legs. It's about time for an upgrade. I'm trying to decide between a new 15" M2 MacBook Air or the MacBook Pro 14" M2 Pro (a refurbished one is around the same price). I'm going to 16 GB of Ram on whichever model I choose.

Any advice on which to choose? Thanks.
Why people think an Air machine can be transformed into Pro just by updating RAM, SSD (and core) and bigger screen? Air is for casual use. Pro is for professional that run heavy tasks. They’re different world. Price can be a factor but mainly it should be driven by usage/needs.
 
The base M2 has a horrible SSD that is slower than the base M1. Please do not buy any base M2 Machine, be it an Air or Pro. Either get a base M1 or M2 with an upgraded SSD, which would be 512GB for the MBA and 1TB for the M2 MBP.


View attachment 2217797View attachment 2217798

Do they use 2x256gb ssd on the upgraded 512 M2 air ?

On this video there is only one plug for ssd, that would mean one 512gb ssd right ?

 
Do they use 2x256gb ssd on the upgraded 512 M2 air ?

On this video there is only one plug for ssd, that would mean one 512gb ssd right ?


In the video you linked, he mentions that he has the base model at the 7m50s mark.

To be clear:
Screenshot 2023-06-14 at 13.00.42.png


https://www.theverge.com/23220299/apple-macbook-air-m2-slow-ssd-read-write-speeds-testing-benchmark
https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/24/23570010/apple-ssd-slower-m2-pro-14-inch-nand-chips

Edit: The chart above is incorrect, as pointed out here. The base M2 MBP does have half the number of NAND chips but the number is 2 instead of 1. This does not change my opinion as the SSD speeds were accurately screenshot/referenced.

Screenshot 2023-07-09 at 14.22.27.png
 
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The 14” is the objectively better computer. The one true advantage to the Air is greater screen real estate, so if you prioritize that it’s worth it. If you don’t care, the 14” is your best bet.
 
The 14” is the objectively better computer. The one true advantage to the Air is greater screen real estate, so if you prioritize that it’s worth it. If you don’t care, the 14” is your best bet.
But for his intended use - studying computer science, it's going to make no difference at all. For college work, a larger screen is going to me more useful than a small speed increase (when the M2 is already lightning fast).
If SSD and memory and price are equal, then go for the lightest one, which may be the Air, or the one with the largest screen (which is also the Air).
 
But for his intended use - studying computer science, it's going to make no difference at all. For college work, a larger screen is going to me more useful than a small speed increase (when the M2 is already lightning fast).
If SSD and memory and price are equal, then go for the lightest one, which may be the Air, or the one with the largest screen (which is also the Air).
Agreed on all counts. Again, the 14” is objectively better, but use cases vary. I personally prefer the 15” Air for the screen real estate and scaling vs. the 14”. He might prefer a smaller physical footprint, who knows. The true answer is go to the Apple Store, try both, pick your favorite.
 
From a C.S. perspective the biggest difference is the extra P cores in the M2 Pro, which will be handy for multi-threading, distributed builds, Docker, etc. The active cooling in the Pro will also be helpful for longer running processes, but that’s unlikely to be a significant issue until later in your career and comes with the cost of the higher weight/thickness.

However, either of these will be more than fine for college courses so something you should consider is how you intend to use it during and after college. For example, If you’re planning to go work at a company, they’ll provide you with a laptop for your work and require you use it. If you’re like most devs, that means this device will be used for recreational development and learning, streaming, gaming, etc.

On the other hand, if you want to start your own gig (e.g., become a consultant/indie dev), then you’d probably consider using this until it becomes cost effective to replace it, in which case the Pro will have the longer life span.

Personally, while I love the form factor of the Air, I’d get the Pro if this was my only computer because:
1. HDMI makes it trivial to use for entertainment/presentations
2. While it’s 16% more volume and 9% more mass than the Air, the extra P cores, better speakers and better screen (especially for outdoor use) are worth it
 
If I were to buy one (15 air vs M2 14 Pro) coming from 16 M2 Pro - didnt really need all the power, but feel I am used to the nice bright and contrasty screen! I MAY need external monitor in a few months also. And upgrading the 15 Air to 16gb is just $100 less than the M2 14" on sale right now at best buy... any thoughts? I do love the bigger screen on the 15 air for sure, but its all about compromise??
 
If I were to buy one (15 air vs M2 14 Pro) coming from 16 M2 Pro - didnt really need all the power, but feel I am used to the nice bright and contrasty screen! I MAY need external monitor in a few months also. And upgrading the 15 Air to 16gb is just $100 less than the M2 14" on sale right now at best buy... any thoughts? I do love the bigger screen on the 15 air for sure, but its all about compromise??

It's quite simple really:
1. Do you want screen real estate of 16" but with the weight of 14"?
2. Do you need any of the extra ports?
3. Do you anticipate yourself using more than 1 display?
4. Will you have to do anything intensive that lasts for longer than 10 minutes on the computer? I'm guessing you are already telling us that you won't.
5. Will you be okay with less than 10 hours of battery life typically? And around 2-3 when the device is pushed to the edge?
6. Will the extra brightness and contrast even matter in normal use to you?

If you answered yes to most of the above...

...why aren't you keeping the 16"? It's already the 14" but with screen real estate of the 15" and with more than enough power and battery life to do everything you need. It's just super heavy, but you have everything: best screen, best speakers, best thermal, best battery life...
 
So I'll be returning to school to study Computer Science and my 2015 MBP is on it's last legs. It's about time for an upgrade. I'm trying to decide between a new 15" M2 MacBook Air or the MacBook Pro 14" M2 Pro (a refurbished one is around the same price). I'm going to 16 GB of Ram on whichever model I choose.

Any advice on which to choose? Thanks.
I vote for the 15" and it's what I bought my rising freshman. The 15" 16/512 with the education discount will cost your $1579 but you will get $150 back as an Apple store card (good for your next machine, etc).

The extra screen size is gold for using an IDE. It's also better for using a word processor, a spreadsheet, or performing a remote desktop. Single core speed (which you should care the most) is the same between the Air and the Pro. The extra cores, especially the gpu cores, are overkill. And screen size is more important than refresh rate for increasing human performance.
 
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The base M2 has a horrible SSD that is slower than the base M1. Please do not buy any base M2 Machine, be it an Air or Pro. Either get a base M1 or M2 with an upgraded SSD, which would be 512GB for the MBA and 1TB for the M2 MBP.

This has been discussed in many other threads, and the reality is that unless you regularly copy around 10+ gigabyte files, you won't be able to tell the difference. Sequential I/O speeds are easy to measure, which is unfortunate because they rarely have anything to do with real world subjective performance.
 
This has been discussed in many other threads, and the reality is that unless you regularly copy around 10+ gigabyte files, you won't be able to tell the difference. Sequential I/O speeds are easy to measure, which is unfortunate because they rarely have anything to do with real world subjective performance.
The reality is that when a new iteration comes out, it should be better than the previous one, not worse. But even besides that, the 14" M1 MBP is objectively a better machine than the 15" M2 MBA in every way, especially in the base configuration. And I'm not the only one that thinks this:
 
The reality is that when a new iteration comes out, it should be better than the previous one, not worse.
I would argue that it IS better, because the use of single larger SSD flash chips allows Apple to hold a cost line while not impacting subjective performance for the overwhelming majority of users. "Better" isn't always about performance.

I have no opinion on the 14" MBP vs the 15" MBA. I guess I would be surprised if the MBP weren't "better" according to most performance metrics. The larger MBA screen and lighter weight may make it "better" depending on what's important to the buyer. I don't have a lot of time for reviewers who think that value judgements are one-dimensional (e.g. performance).
 
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I would argue that it IS better, because the use of single larger SSD flash chips allows Apple to hold a cost line while not impacting subjective performance for the overwhelming majority of users. "Better" isn't always about performance.

I have no opinion on the 14" MBP vs the 15" MBA. I guess I would be surprised if the MBP weren't "better" according to most performance metrics. The larger MBA screen and lighter weight may make it "better" depending on what's important to the buyer. I don't have a lot of time for reviewers who think that value judgements are one-dimensional (e.g. performance).

Unfortunately for you, the facts don't support your opinion. The base M2 laptops are worse than the base M1 laptops, especially for coding; I've provided plenty of evidence for this. And Tim Cook saved Apple a whopping $1.25 per unit at the consumer's expense:

full


OP is deciding between a 14" M2 MBP and 15" MBA according to his original post. I'm not making that comparison for him. All I'm saying is that a base M1 machine is better than a base M2 machine and to get the same SSD speeds, (s)he would need to upgrade the SSD, which is not worth it.
 
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I can guarantee you that SSD speeds have zero effect on coding, particularly sequential speeds, and particularly when even the slower SSD can sequentially read a 1 GB file in under a half-second. (Writing code is most of my day job.)

Spot pricing is unlikely to have much to do with the contract pricing that Apple surely gets, and even a few cents can matter to the end price. Just ask the auto makers. (Ever read "Wheels"?)

I think your "better" is a chimera, but that's OK, I'm not actually trying to convince you of anything. I'm merely trying to limit the amount of misinformation being spread around as to how relevant sequential SSD speeds are. (I.e. hardly at all.)
 
I can guarantee you that SSD speeds have zero effect on coding, particularly sequential speeds, and particularly when even the slower SSD can sequentially read a 1 GB file in under a half-second. (Writing code is most of my day job.)

Spot pricing is unlikely to have much to do with the contract pricing that Apple surely gets, and even a few cents can matter to the end price. Just ask the auto makers. (Ever read "Wheels"?)

I think your "better" is a chimera, but that's OK, I'm not actually trying to convince you of anything. I'm merely trying to limit the amount of misinformation being spread around as to how relevant sequential SSD speeds are. (I.e. hardly at all.)

I am not saying that the M1 machine is better for coding because it has a better SSD than an M2 machine. I'm saying that there is marginal improvement in the M2 CPU over an M1 CPU so a person is better off with an M1 machine. So, the key difference between the machines is the SSD. Again, specifically the base model.


Here's the gist of the video summed up perfectly via a comment:
Screenshot 2023-07-06 at 21.34.58.png


I threw the chart as an example, to give people a glimpse of what prices were; to show how ridiculous it is to save $1 on a machine that sells for $2K+. I'm sorry that Tim Cook didn't reply to my inquiry on Apple's volume pricing.

I don't need you to convince me of anything. I'm trying to help the OP and others make a sound choice. If (s)he decides that the 15" MBA is better because of the size of the screen, then so be it. But (s)he should at least know about the inferior SSD in the base M2 machines. As I said before, buying an M2 laptop is a waste of money; you're better off with an M1.
 
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I prioritize screen real estate as #1. RAM and processing are dependent on the type of projects and tooling. When I was a CS student, I would (and was expected to) ssh into a university cluster or schedule a job on a university supercomputer to do heavy lifting.

Maximize screen size (and BTW every bag with a laptop pouch I’ve come across fits a 16” MBP perfectly) and everything else should be about ensuring adequacy. M1 or M2 Pro w/ 16 GB of RAM is probably fine. If you can afford it, I’d probably go for 32 GB, since some IDEs and such can be real pigs (not sure what tooling you’re expected to use).

Oh, and SSD speed is totally irrelevant for CS. Or any science or engineering, for that matter.

Edit: After looking at prices, the 15” M2 Air w/ 16GB (or 24GB if you can swing it) seems like a pretty nice setup for CS, IMHO. Screen is marginally smaller than the 16” MBP, and the M2 is a quite capable chip.
 
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I don’t know why everyone’s going nuts about the SSD… even at half the speed you won’t notice considerable slowdowns unless you’re dealing with massive files, which as a CS student you usually don’t.

Personally, I like the fact that the 14” has a fan. That’s the only thing that keeps me away from the Airs. I like to game on my Mac when I’m not working on programming projects. The Air overheats (but doesn’t get as hot as an Intel; the CPU will eventually throttle itself). I’ve never experienced such issues with the Pro, note I do use a 3rd party tool to make the fans usage a bit more aggressive. I also do a fair bit of Linux development and the Virtualization framework eats more CPU than your typical IDE so it warms up quicker.

Mx Pro is going to be more powerful than M2 Air, maybe not on Single Core if it’s an M1 Pro but it’s a marginal difference. You’ll find more value in an increased multi core score because it means you can do more things better.

I also find the screen and speakers on the 14” absolutely superb. I think you get all around superior specs out of the Pro line over the Air. But in the end, either of these laptops will serve you well as a CS student. Happy learning!
 
OP is deciding between a 14" M2 MBP and 15" MBA according to his original post. I'm not making that comparison for him. All I'm saying is that a base M1 machine is better than a base M2 machine and to get the same SSD speeds, (s)he would need to upgrade the SSD, which is not worth it.
Its an interesting discussion, but unless they are considering a 16/256 Air it is irrelevant.
 
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