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As much as I like the 15" Air I'm wondering who's buying this in my territory because it's priced too high. We're in 2023 not 2003, so a real-world base configuration for someone serious enough to drop over a grand on a computer is going to be 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM. Because why other than vanity would you want to spend over a grand on a laptop if its specs are so rudimentary that it's only good enough for web-browsing. But a 512GB/16GB MBA is a not-cool £1800 where I live. That's. A. Lot. It's really not difficult to find a branded 15" Windows laptop with those specs or better for much less. And that's why they outsell Macs by goodness knows how many to one.
Definitely. You can get 17" PC Laptops with the same specs for cheaper than even the 15A.
 
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This is the issue. The price of the BOTL configurations are about what I'd expect to pay for a premium device, factoring-in 'Apple tax', but they are useful really only as toys. Factor-in +£400 to equip it with what I consider to be a minimum specification to make it useful for anything but rudimentary tasks (512GB SSD/16GB RAM), and that is a tough cookie to swallow. It's Apple admitting in a roundabout way that most people are going to buy these products as status symbols / electronic jewellery / high-end MS Teams terminals, because 8GB RAM is not enough to do anything serious these days, and a paltry 256GB SSD is going to drive you instantly to outboard storage if you're into any form of media creation.

There are £200 Lenovos with the same onboard storage and RAM as a £1800 MBA. There's no way the paltry RAM and storage specifications in the base model can be objectively justified for the price, and spec'ing it up to be a productivity-capable tool is eye-wateringly costly.
My 17inch lenovo worked as good as m1/2 macs in my salesforce web app. Given lenovo was $1100 and 16gb/1000, while M1 air is $935 for 8/512.
But the 200 lenovo opened my queries in under 10 seconds, while lenovo and mac did under a second. For reference, 2012 mbp took 3-4 seconds.

You are mainly paying for high end processor here which makes things fast and build quality/display. It is up to each person to decide where they want to put their money - i chose quality display and battery life with build quality. Others might not need all of that.
 
I don't agree. My 8 year old laptop came with 8GB of ram lol (I upgraded to 16). I'm not buying a new laptop 8 years later with 8GB.
Why? 8GB is more than enough for basic needs. I've had the base model M1, 13" M2 and now the 15" and I've not had any issues with it, because of how optimised macOS is.
 
Yes they did, I saw it early this morning before dawn. It must have been maintenance or something going on. I live in the US, I wouldn't be on the EU site.
Just a PSA - no change in pricing in the EU ... well apart from the price increase on the mac Studio Max when it refreshed last week 🤣
 
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This is the issue. The price of the BOTL configurations are about what I'd expect to pay for a premium device, factoring-in 'Apple tax', but they are useful really only as toys. Factor-in +£400 to equip it with what I consider to be a minimum specification to make it useful for anything but rudimentary tasks (512GB SSD/16GB RAM), and that is a tough cookie to swallow. It's Apple admitting in a roundabout way that most people are going to buy these products as status symbols / electronic jewellery / high-end MS Teams terminals, because 8GB RAM is not enough to do anything serious these days, and a paltry 256GB SSD is going to drive you instantly to outboard storage if you're into any form of media creation.

There are £200 Lenovos with the same onboard storage and RAM as a £1800 MBA. There's no way the paltry RAM and storage specifications in the base model can be objectively justified for the price, and spec'ing it up to be a productivity-capable tool is eye-wateringly costly.
Thats true. The 16“ M1 Pro from the refurb store with same specs just costs €50 more. 14“ even less. So if weight is not your #1 concern i would recommend this.
 
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Apple has dropped their RAM prices by $20 today, I just noticed this.

Edit: They also seemed to have dropped the prices on SOME of the SSD configs too! They must be hearing all the complaining about their prices.

Link us.

We can easily confirm by comparing against Web Archive.
 
actually the inside is different. it's got a slightly smaller logic board, thicker heatsink and bigger speakers. Also the batteries near the trackpad are a split design on the 15"

Sure, Apple carved the logic board slightly different, but it's essentially a copy and paste.

We know because it only has Wi-Fi 6, just like M2 MBA. Products designed more recently like M2 Mac mini get 6E.
 
Why? 8GB is more than enough for basic needs. I've had the base model M1, 13" M2 and now the 15" and I've not had any issues with it, because of how optimised macOS is.
Because, apps, programs, websites, etc., are getting more and more "featured" (that's not really the word I wanted to use but I can't think right now), and they are sucking up the RAM. You have to admit, 8GB of ram in 2023 is pretty low, as is 256GB storage.
 
Link us.

We can easily confirm by comparing against Web Archive.
I'm not able to anymore. The US site has been corrected now to show the original prices. I should have screened it but assumed Apple was being nice. It wasn't that big of a deal, $20 off RAM and $40 or $60 off SSD (above 512GB).
 
Because, apps, programs, websites, etc., are getting more and more "featured" (that's not really the word I wanted to use but I can't think right now), and they are sucking up the RAM. You have to admit, 8GB of ram in 2023 is pretty low, as is 256GB storage.
Are they though? macOS does a pretty good job of managing RAM usage and I've never had an issues with memory pressure across my base model M1 or M2 Airs.
 
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Are they though? macOS does a pretty good job of managing RAM usage and I've never had an issues with memory pressure across my base model M1 or M2 Airs.
Well from the "experts" on here and other sites, everyone says so.

This is my issue. I want to get a 15" Air and I want it to grow with me and last me for a good decade! My Windows laptop has lasted 8 plus years and it was a fairly cheap laptop), so I'm assuming this is not impossible for a Mac to do?

I just feel like if I order the base model, I'm going to be cheating myself somehow and I'm confused on what to do. I feel like I'll be getting less of a computer, than if I upgrade to 16/512, suck it up and pay the extra $400 for those two upgrades. I would much rather save the $400 but I just feel like that wouldn't be appropriate with regards to my plans.

I'm not a pro user by ANY stretch of the imagination. I'm mainly on websites all day (10+ Chrome tabs), yea I'll try Safari and see how that works for me as well, social media, playing music, watching videos/movies, occasionally I'll use some of the native apps that come with the Mac, I'll download software and use for sure as well (nothing pro like) just basic stuff (Plex, Zoom, etc). I'm going to be continuing to run my Plex media server off of my Windows laptop, so I'll just be using the Plex app on my Mac to access files over my network. That kinda stuff!
 
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Well from the "experts" on here and other sites, everyone says so.

This is my issue. I want to get a 15" Air and I want it to grow with me and last me for a good decade! My Windows laptop has lasted 8 plus years and it was a fairly cheap laptop), so I'm assuming this is not impossible for a Mac to do?

I just feel like if I order the base model, I'm going to be cheating myself somehow and I'm confused on what to do. I feel like I'll be getting less of a computer, than if I upgrade to 16/512, suck it up and pay the extra $400 for those two upgrades. I would much rather save the $400 but I just feel like that wouldn't be appropriate with regards to my plans.

I'm not a pro user by ANY stretch of the imagination. I'm mainly on websites all day (10+ Chrome tabs), yea I'll try Safari and see how that works for me as well, social media, playing music, watching videos/movies, occasionally I'll use some of the native apps that come with the Mac, I'll download software and use for sure as well (nothing pro like) just basic stuff (Plex, etc). I'm going to be continuing to run my Plex media server off of my Windows laptop, so I'll just be using the Plex app on my Mac to access files over my network. That kinda stuff!
We have a 13" 8/128gb early 2015 mbp that still works and looks like new, was a apple refurb too.
 
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I just feel like if I order the base model, I'm going to be cheating myself somehow and I'm confused on what to do. I feel like I'll be getting less of a computer, than if I upgrade to 16/512, suck it up and pay the extra $400 for those two upgrades. I would much rather save the $400 but I just feel like that wouldn't be appropriate with regards to my plans.
Problem here is you can get the 8/512gb for 10% off sales from retailers, but not 16gb, has to be ordered from Apple so you're paying full retail plus the upgrade. xtra $550AUD lol
Doesn't seem right though 8gb in a base 8 year old MacBook is still 8gb today. I have the 8/512gb 24" iMac for the same reasons, would have preferred 16gb.
 
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Sure, Apple carved the logic board slightly different, but it's essentially a copy and paste.

We know because it only has Wi-Fi 6, just like M2 MBA. Products designed more recently like M2 Mac mini get 6E.
The trackpad is larger also 😁
 
Well from the "experts" on here and other sites, everyone says so.

This is my issue. I want to get a 15" Air and I want it to grow with me and last me for a good decade! My Windows laptop has lasted 8 plus years and it was a fairly cheap laptop), so I'm assuming this is not impossible for a Mac to do?

I just feel like if I order the base model, I'm going to be cheating myself somehow and I'm confused on what to do. I feel like I'll be getting less of a computer, than if I upgrade to 16/512, suck it up and pay the extra $400 for those two upgrades. I would much rather save the $400 but I just feel like that wouldn't be appropriate with regards to my plans.

I'm not a pro user by ANY stretch of the imagination. I'm mainly on websites all day (10+ Chrome tabs), yea I'll try Safari and see how that works for me as well, social media, playing music, watching videos/movies, occasionally I'll use some of the native apps that come with the Mac, I'll download software and use for sure as well (nothing pro like) just basic stuff (Plex, Zoom, etc). I'm going to be continuing to run my Plex media server off of my Windows laptop, so I'll just be using the Plex app on my Mac to access files over my network. That kinda stuff!
Using it for 10 years u really should do the 16GB.

Back in the day 2012 i bought an Air. The only one in store was a 8GB instead of the standard 4GB config. So i said well i don’t need it but didn’t want to wait.

2 years later i was happy cos i had to use VMs with it and so the laptop lasted me till 2021. impossible with 4GB…

Storage u can always use external SSDs but RAM no.

Other use case is if your partner has an active account on the laptop (not logged out). Then even 16GB can get in the red zone with my M1 pro…
 
Problem here is you can get the 8/512gb for 10% off sales from retailers, but not 16gb, has to be ordered from Apple so you're paying full retail plus the upgrade. xtra $550AUD lol
Doesn't seem right though 8gb in a base 8 year old MacBook is still 8gb today. I have the 8/512gb 24" iMac for the same reasons, would have preferred 16gb.
Yea, see if I upgraded I would want to upgrade both the RAM and the SSD (not just one). I'm kinda OCD like that! :cool:

I figure though, if my 8 year old Dell laptop that had 8GB, worked fine before I upgraded to 16GB, then I should be safe with the base model.
 
Well from the "experts" on here and other sites, everyone says so.

This is my issue. I want to get a 15" Air and I want it to grow with me and last me for a good decade! My Windows laptop has lasted 8 plus years and it was a fairly cheap laptop), so I'm assuming this is not impossible for a Mac to do?

I just feel like if I order the base model, I'm going to be cheating myself somehow and I'm confused on what to do. I feel like I'll be getting less of a computer, than if I upgrade to 16/512, suck it up and pay the extra $400 for those two upgrades. I would much rather save the $400 but I just feel like that wouldn't be appropriate with regards to my plans.

I'm not a pro user by ANY stretch of the imagination. I'm mainly on websites all day (10+ Chrome tabs), yea I'll try Safari and see how that works for me as well, social media, playing music, watching videos/movies, occasionally I'll use some of the native apps that come with the Mac, I'll download software and use for sure as well (nothing pro like) just basic stuff (Plex, Zoom, etc). I'm going to be continuing to run my Plex media server off of my Windows laptop, so I'll just be using the Plex app on my Mac to access files over my network. That kinda stuff!
Given that you like to keep your computers for a long time, I’d go wait least 16 GB RAM. You may be fine with 8 now, but you never know what the future holds and you can’t upgrade later.
 
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I've been doing some testing on my end (I assume it's not fair to compare Windows to Mac and vise-versa) but that's all I got for now.

I removed one of my 8GB modules, so I'm currently using 8GB of RAM right now (going on 12 hours now). I did a fresh restart, opened up (and left) 10 chrome tabs and went about my usual activities on my PC. Going on 12 hours later, I'm currently using nearly 80% of of my RAM! :eek: That's insane and I don't ever remember this before I upgraded to 16GB but then again, I wasn't really monitoring or paying much attention before.

I know if I close a bunch of stuff out, my RAM usage will drop (not back to restart numbers) but a decent drop to say the least. I'll report back after the full 24 hour test that I'm doing (without a restart).
 
So here are the numbers for Windows, there is a massive difference between 8 and 16 GB's of RAM (in the Windows world anyways). Granted, my laptop is 8 years old and using DDR3 RAM but it still gives you an idea.

8GB/24 HOUR TEST

In Use: 2.8GB (19%); Available 5GB (5:40 AM AFTER RESTART)
In Use: 6.6GB (84%); Available: 1.3GB (5:40 PM 12 HOUR CHECK-IN)
In Use: 5.9GB (75%); Available: 1.9GB (6:10 AM 24 HOUR CHECK-IN)



16GB/24 HOUR TEST

In Use: 3.1GB (19%); Available 12.8GB (2:30 PM AFTER RESTART)
In Use: 7.9GB (50%); Available 7.9GB (2:30 AM 12 HOUR CHECK-IN)
In Use: 8.2GB (51%); Available 7.8GB (2:30 PM 24 HOUR CHECK-IN)
 
Pretty common use case is running out of RAM. When that 8GB is full, you're hitting swap.

The swap is used before you're running out of RAM, so you don't have to wait for the paging.

Using swap is a good thing and if you're doing it the way macOS does on Apple Silicon, the performance reduction is reduced a lot.
 
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