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15" Unibody MBP - Eyestrain - seeking advice

For me, eyestrain results from looking at any high-contrast display for a long period of time. You see, your eyes can only adjust for average brightness of what is in your visual field - sort of like averaged metering for exposure in a camera. If the contrast is too high, darks will seem darker, and lights will seem lighter. Your iris opens wide enough for the average amount of light coming into them, but with high contrast the light areas can be, ... well, "overexposed" on your retina. As a result, your eyes are constantly trying to adjust....

So, for me the secret is: Reduce contrast to reduce eyestrain.

Many graphic designers and photographers note that the contrast and saturation of the glossy displays are "inaccurate," but I think the real issue is with color management, which I have heard is quirky in OS X Leopard.

Does anyone know how to accomplish reliable color management to set a reasonable gama that will stick without screwing up color printing in Leopard? I don't have a Leopard system yet, so I have no way of knowing.
 
Wow I can't believe all of the misconceptions in this thread. I don't want to pick on anyone but the fact that I don't experience eyestrain in Windows on the same notebook with the same screen and brightness should tell you that the font in OS X is the culprit.

When I'm in OS X I always increase the font to a bigger size*. In windows I leave the standard font size alone, a smaller font size than i use in OS X and no eyestrain.

Eyestrain or an overly bright screen is uncomfortable but it won't damage your eyes and a screen too dim will also give you eyestrain. Also, a higher contrast for text is better for your eyes. That's why e-ink is always being improved to increase the contrast.

*Place both fingers on your multi-touch trackpad and pinch in and outward and watch your font size increase and decrease. A quick easy way to
 
MVApple said:
Wow I can't believe all of the misconceptions in this thread. I don't want to pick on anyone but the fact that I don't experience eyestrain in Windows on the same notebook with the same screen and brightness should tell you that the font in OS X is the culprit.

When I'm in OS X I always increase the font to a bigger size*. In windows I leave the standard font size alone, a smaller font size than i use in OS X and no eyestrain.

Eyestrain or an overly bright screen is uncomfortable but it won't damage your eyes and a screen too dim will also give you eyestrain. Also, a higher contrast for text is better for your eyes. That's why e-ink is always being improved to increase the contrast.

*Place both fingers on your multi-touch trackpad and pinch in and outward and watch your font size increase and decrease. A quick easy way to
Click to expand...

Wrong! Earlier in the tread there was mention of display flicker... that is exactly it. The new unibody MacBook Pros have a defect (either software or hardware, hopefully the first) that causes the screen to flicker. It's most noticeable on low brightness in a dim room (2-5 bars) and seems to be worse with heavy disk access. The flicker is there at all brightness but is harder to actually notice, but still causes eyestrain (just like a bad CRT refresh would).

I am on my 3rd unit in the past 2 weeks and all of them have done it. Apple techs have told me everything from it being a bad power inverter to a software bug... so who knows. One even told me just to deal with it and that was his only position on the matter. I hope that's what he tells those with epilepsy, the ***hole. My hunch is that its a hardware problem due to it being tied to disk access and there is some type of power issue on the logic board or perhaps another bad batch of nVidia cards.

This flickering (not on and off really, more like fast pulsating) is on plenty of other discussion boards. Some say their machines aren't doing it, but given I have gotten 3 in a row and so many have this issue... I would bet they all come off the line this way. Ugh.

And thanks, Apple, for the Mini DisplayPort... which officially does not support CRT technology anymore (unless I want 60Hz refresh or low resolution). I can't drive my 24" Sony FW900 at native resolution or refresh rates after spending $30 on the VGA adapter for this port. Not everyone uses an LCD, especially in digital image proofing for print. Good CRTs still have better color depth and calibration than any LCD. My previous MacBook Pro did it just fine... and didn't flicker. Too bad I sold it to get this lemon.
 
jdshow said:
Wrong! Earlier in the tread there was mention of display flicker... that is exactly it. The new unibody MacBook Pros have a defect (either software or hardware, hopefully the first) that causes the screen to flicker. It's most noticeable on low brightness in a dim room (2-5 bars) and seems to be worse with heavy disk access. The flicker is there at all brightness but is harder to actually notice, but still causes eyestrain (just like a bad CRT refresh would).

I am on my 3rd unit in the past 2 weeks and all of them have done it. Apple techs have told me everything from it being a bad power inverter to a software bug... so who knows. One even told me just to deal with it and that was his only position on the matter. I hope that's what he tells those with epilepsy, the ***hole. My hunch is that its a hardware problem due to it being tied to disk access and there is some type of power issue on the logic board or perhaps another bad batch of nVidia cards.

This flickering (not on and off really, more like fast pulsating) is on plenty of other discussion boards. Some say their machines aren't doing it, but given I have gotten 3 in a row and so many have this issue... I would bet they all come off the line this way. Ugh.

And thanks, Apple, for the Mini DisplayPort... which officially does not support CRT technology anymore (unless I want 60Hz refresh or low resolution). I can't drive my 24" Sony FW900 at native resolution or refresh rates after spending $30 on the VGA adapter for this port. Not everyone uses an LCD, especially in digital image proofing for print. Good CRTs still have better color depth and calibration than any LCD. My previous MacBook Pro did it just fine... and didn't flicker. Too bad I sold it to get this lemon.
Click to expand...

jdshow, could you describe the flickering in a little bit more detail? You say it's more like fast pulsating. Is this something that is obvious to the geniuses? Does it affect the entire screen?

I have been having eyestrain problems with my Unibody MBP and have noticed slight screen flicker. However, after looking closely at other LCD displays I actually see they all flicker slightly. This is most obvious on solid colored backgrounds. I don't have problems with eyestrain on other displays though...

Anyway, if you could share any more detail about how the flicker looks that would be helpful.
 
jdshow said:
Wrong! Earlier in the tread there was mention of display flicker... that is exactly it. The new unibody MacBook Pros have a defect (either software or hardware, hopefully the first) that causes the screen to flicker. It's most noticeable on low brightness in a dim room (2-5 bars) and seems to be worse with heavy disk access. The flicker is there at all brightness but is harder to actually notice, but still causes eyestrain (just like a bad CRT refresh would).

I am on my 3rd unit in the past 2 weeks and all of them have done it. Apple techs have told me everything from it being a bad power inverter to a software bug... so who knows. One even told me just to deal with it and that was his only position on the matter. I hope that's what he tells those with epilepsy, the ***hole. My hunch is that its a hardware problem due to it being tied to disk access and there is some type of power issue on the logic board or perhaps another bad batch of nVidia cards.

This flickering (not on and off really, more like fast pulsating) is on plenty of other discussion boards. Some say their machines aren't doing it, but given I have gotten 3 in a row and so many have this issue... I would bet they all come off the line this way. Ugh.

And thanks, Apple, for the Mini DisplayPort... which officially does not support CRT technology anymore (unless I want 60Hz refresh or low resolution). I can't drive my 24" Sony FW900 at native resolution or refresh rates after spending $30 on the VGA adapter for this port. Not everyone uses an LCD, especially in digital image proofing for print. Good CRTs still have better color depth and calibration than any LCD. My previous MacBook Pro did it just fine... and didn't flicker. Too bad I sold it to get this lemon.
Click to expand...

Wrong! Mine does not flicker at any brightness level. It is one of the first things I checked when I got my MBP because of the complaints. It is possible that your eyes are more susceptible to this than to other peoples. When you took your faulty notebooks to the Apple store did the employees notice the flicker? Also, did their display units have this flicker as well?

The fact that CRT's don't bother you makes me suspicious though. Your eyes can detect refresh rates better from your peripheral vision. If you look at your CRT straight on you will not notice the refresh rate if set properly, but if you look at the CRT from your peripheral vision you will notice that you can see the refresh rate. I'm looking at my MBP from my peripheral vision and I can't see any flicker at any brightness which means the pulsating LED's are refreshing VERY fast, otherwise I'd be able to see it from my peripheral vision.

You also completely ignored me when I said that if I use my MBP under windows vista with bootcamp that I experience no such eyestrain. How do you explain that?

Here is some reading on refresh rates. http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/TempRate.mspx

Oh and for the record, the eyestrain associated with MACs has been around before the unibody was even a concept.
 
vocalcity said:
jdshow, could you describe the flickering in a little bit more detail? You say it's more like fast pulsating. Is this something that is obvious to the geniuses? Does it affect the entire screen?

I have been having eyestrain problems with my Unibody MBP and have noticed slight screen flicker. However, after looking closely at other LCD displays I actually see they all flicker slightly. This is most obvious on solid colored backgrounds. I don't have problems with eyestrain on other displays though...

Anyway, if you could share any more detail about how the flicker looks that would be helpful.
Click to expand...

The flickering is a bit like fast pulsating or a bad refresh rate on a CRT. My previous MacBook Pro (LED screen purchased Oct. 2007) didn't do it and my Ti Book never had the problem either. It doesn't flicker on and off, it would almost be like toggling between two brightness levels rapidly. Like I mentioned, its most noticeable on brightness levels 2-5 with disk access or processor load. It's much easier to notice on a plain background. I wouldn't doubt that all LCD flicker some, as they all have screen refreshing, but this is a bit more pronounced. The iMac in my office is fine even staring at the LCD close up, same with several coworkers various laptops.

It honestly looks like a power issue or power handling issue, like if you had a light on in your house and then start using power tools... the light can sometimes change intensity. In this case its very rapid back and forth and does cover the entire screen.

Its definitely there even at higher brightnesses (though much harder to see, which is why many people don't think their machine is doing it). It also can be more intense at times for no reason it seem.

I have tried with or without the power supply and with both graphics cards, it will do it no matter what.

I took it to a genius who saw it on my first one, second one I just got a return authorization after explaining it and exchanged it... no one checked it. I am going to the Apple Store tonight and the manager is going to meet with me to exchange this one.
 
MVApple said:
Wrong! Mine does not flicker at any brightness level. It is one of the first things I checked when I got my MBP because of the complaints. It is possible that your eyes are more susceptible to this than to other peoples. When you took your faulty notebooks to the Apple store did the employees notice the flicker? Also, did their display units have this flicker as well?

The fact that CRT's don't bother you makes me suspicious though. Your eyes can detect refresh rates better from your peripheral vision. If you look at your CRT straight on you will not notice the refresh rate if set properly, but if you look at the CRT from your peripheral vision you will notice that you can see the refresh rate. I'm looking at my MBP from my peripheral vision and I can't see any flicker at any brightness which means the pulsating LED's are refreshing VERY fast, otherwise I'd be able to see it from my peripheral vision.

You also completely ignored me when I said that if I use my MBP under windows vista with bootcamp that I experience no such eyestrain. How do you explain that?

Here is some reading on refresh rates. http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/TempRate.mspx

Oh and for the record, the eyestrain associated with MACs has been around before the unibody was even a concept.
Click to expand...

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Sorry.
 
MVApple said:
You also completely ignored me when I said that if I use my MBP under windows vista with bootcamp that I experience no such eyestrain. How do you explain that?
Click to expand...

The display hardware is obviously doing something different under Bootcamp. My last generation MBP makes a high-pitched noise if I set the brightness to anything other than the minimum or maximum setting. It doesn't do that under OS X. The flickering could be related.

Actually, the LED backlight flickers to adjust the brightness using PWM (pulse width modulation), but that shouldn't be perceptible to humans if they do it at a high enough frequency. If I point my digital camera at the screen, the preview image flickers like crazy. The same for my fluorescent lights. Looking outside, there is no flickering (so it is not purely an artifact of the camera).

If I look really closely at a light-colored region on my screen, I can see some flickering that is probably the pixels inverting. At a normal distance, I can't see it, but it could still contribute to eye strain (though I don't reallt get eye strain from this screen any more since I am used to it).

This morning I noticed a lot of flickering on my iPod Touch, particularly in the bottom bar of Safari. It looks like there are a bunch of lines scrolling up and down in the blue gradient.
 
jdshow said:
Wrong! Earlier in the tread there was mention of display flicker... that is exactly it. The new unibody MacBook Pros have a defect (either software or hardware, hopefully the first) that causes the screen to flicker. It's most noticeable on low brightness in a dim room (2-5 bars) and seems to be worse with heavy disk access. The flicker is there at all brightness but is harder to actually notice, but still causes eyestrain (just like a bad CRT refresh would).

I am on my 3rd unit in the past 2 weeks and all of them have done it. Apple techs have told me everything from it being a bad power inverter to a software bug... so who knows. One even told me just to deal with it and that was his only position on the matter. I hope that's what he tells those with epilepsy, the ***hole. My hunch is that its a hardware problem due to it being tied to disk access and there is some type of power issue on the logic board or perhaps another bad batch of nVidia cards.

This flickering (not on and off really, more like fast pulsating) is on plenty of other discussion boards. Some say their machines aren't doing it, but given I have gotten 3 in a row and so many have this issue... I would bet they all come off the line this way. Ugh.

And thanks, Apple, for the Mini DisplayPort... which officially does not support CRT technology anymore (unless I want 60Hz refresh or low resolution). I can't drive my 24" Sony FW900 at native resolution or refresh rates after spending $30 on the VGA adapter for this port. Not everyone uses an LCD, especially in digital image proofing for print. Good CRTs still have better color depth and calibration than any LCD. My previous MacBook Pro did it just fine... and didn't flicker. Too bad I sold it to get this lemon.
Click to expand...

This is the EXACT same experience I have had - I have given up on getting a display that doesn't give me an instant headache. I don't know how Apple can get away with such a widespread issue. I even had a Genius go as far as to tell me, after he the saw the VERY apparent flicker, that he felt the computer was still "functional." Not sure how functional the computer is to me if I can't look at the screen for more than 5 minutes. He said that Apple was aware of the issue, and that I would have to deal with it in the mean time. After a call to customer relations, I ended up getting a replacement 2.66Ghz 2009 model with the same issue!

Still don't know what to do.
 
m85476585 said:
The display hardware is obviously doing something different under Bootcamp. My last generation MBP makes a high-pitched noise if I set the brightness to anything other than the minimum or maximum setting. It doesn't do that under OS X. The flickering could be related.

Actually, the LED backlight flickers to adjust the brightness using PWM (pulse width modulation), but that shouldn't be perceptible to humans if they do it at a high enough frequency. If I point my digital camera at the screen, the preview image flickers like crazy. The same for my fluorescent lights. Looking outside, there is no flickering (so it is not purely an artifact of the camera).

If I look really closely at a light-colored region on my screen, I can see some flickering that is probably the pixels inverting. At a normal distance, I can't see it, but it could still contribute to eye strain (though I don't reallt get eye strain from this screen any more since I am used to it).

This morning I noticed a lot of flickering on my iPod Touch, particularly in the bottom bar of Safari. It looks like there are a bunch of lines scrolling up and down in the blue gradient.
Click to expand...

However, he mentioned it wasn't flickering in either OSX or Bootcamp environment.... so maybe it isn't on his machine at all. Or I guess it could be the fonts causing all the widespread eyestrain and we're all nuts.

I have heard reports of some iPod touch screens flickering. How old is it? First rev? My iPhone does not flicker at all and I keep the brightness at about 1/3.

You're correct on the way LED brightness levels are controlled, however, my Al LED MacBook Pro never flickered like this one, so maybe their timing is off and a software update can fix it... but like I said, it seems to be worse if there is disk access or processor load drawing power. So there may be too much draw on that power rail line if the LED is on the same load...
 
Screen

I am 23 and I have the 15 inch Macbook Pro, but the screen doesn't even bother me, even with the default calibration in a dark room. I think that it's something to do with staring at low-quality PC monitors for a long time, and then just switching to a machine with a better screen and lower response time, as well as a higher refresh rate... I don't know. Maybe it's something to do with my age... (sorry.)
 
I have the same problem with eye strain, discovered it in college while spending hours in a small room inputting data for 4+ hours in a CTR monitor. I was VERY hesitant on buying a new MacBook when I saw they were only glossy screens but my iBook G3 was finally kicking the bucket. I sucked it up and bought one in December. I really haven’t had an issue with eye strain until recently now that I’m spending 8 hours a day in front of my laptop. I always use it a 1 or 2 brightness setting else I feel like I’m burning my retinas.

The point...anyone using an anti-glare screen cover they like? I can’t concentrate on my work like this and I’ll try anything. Also, who’s had their screen replaced with a matte? I’ve heard about this but don’t know people that have done it personally.
 
Sorry mate, but the problem is you!

Common condition, your eyes get strained too much and therefore hurt. See an optician and get glasses and your problem wil be solved.
 
gathart said:
Common condition, your eyes get strained too much and therefore hurt. See an optician and get glasses and your problem wil be solved.
Click to expand...

Have them and have all of the anti-reflection coatings possible. They still hurt after working for 8 hours on a glossy.
 
Try Font Smoothing

Hello. Have you tried Font Smoothing? This helped for me. Go into your System Preferences, Appearance, and at the bottom you will see Font smoothing style. Adjust the settings and see what happens.

I hope this helps. Good Luck!
 
jdshow said:
Wrong! Earlier in the tread there was mention of display flicker... that is exactly it. The new unibody MacBook Pros have a defect (either software or hardware, hopefully the first) that causes the screen to flicker. It's most noticeable on low brightness in a dim room (2-5 bars) and seems to be worse with heavy disk access. The flicker is there at all brightness but is harder to actually notice, but still causes eyestrain (just like a bad CRT refresh would).

I am on my 3rd unit in the past 2 weeks and all of them have done it. Apple techs have told me everything from it being a bad power inverter to a software bug... so who knows. One even told me just to deal with it and that was his only position on the matter. I hope that's what he tells those with epilepsy, the ***hole. My hunch is that its a hardware problem due to it being tied to disk access and there is some type of power issue on the logic board or perhaps another bad batch of nVidia cards.

This flickering (not on and off really, more like fast pulsating) is on plenty of other discussion boards. Some say their machines aren't doing it, but given I have gotten 3 in a row and so many have this issue... I would bet they all come off the line this way. Ugh.

And thanks, Apple, for the Mini DisplayPort... which officially does not support CRT technology anymore (unless I want 60Hz refresh or low resolution). I can't drive my 24" Sony FW900 at native resolution or refresh rates after spending $30 on the VGA adapter for this port. Not everyone uses an LCD, especially in digital image proofing for print. Good CRTs still have better color depth and calibration than any LCD. My previous MacBook Pro did it just fine... and didn't flicker. Too bad I sold it to get this lemon.
Click to expand...

I have the same issue. The thing with this type of pulsating is it more obvious than a refresh rate on a crt. It's a much slower 'refresh' rate problem, like dimming in and out very quickly/subtle-ly. I only notice it on lower brightness levels and it goes away after about 10 minutes from being cold. The 9600 gt does the opposite. If i use it for a long time (warmed up) i get the flicker then but when it's cold the 9600 doesnt flicker. What the heck?
 
Ramsav24 said:
The point...anyone using an anti-glare screen cover they like? I can’t concentrate on my work like this and I’ll try anything. Also, who’s had their screen replaced with a matte? I’ve heard about this but don’t know people that have done it personally.
Click to expand...


I bought this http://www.powersupportusa.com/products/macbook-antiglare.php?category=mb_new at the Apple store and it definitely cuts down on the distracting reflections/glare. There is some distortion, but the trade-off is worth it IMO.
 
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