I used to rant about 8 GB RAM, since it is actually not enough, but 16 GB RAM is good enough, and has been for the last ten years or more, for most scenarios. So, I disagree.
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16 GB of RAM for a Pro device is not okay
- Thread starter MrWayne
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OP, who is a professional? What computing needs does a professional have?
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Depends what one considers to be a 'pro[fessional', or indeed a professional-class device.
Like any business, Apple wants to sell the minimum viable product so that they have a reason for customers to upgrade and spend more money. In this regard, 16gb could fulfil a number of professional-orientated tasks or workflows, but the question is how this scales with a person's perception of professional work.
What's different today is that many professional workflows have been democratised, they run more efficiently and with cheaper (less high-end) hardware. Consider 4K video editing: only 10 years ago this would have been very much a Mac Pro-centric workflow, but today an iPhone has the capability to do so, with virtually no slowdown.
A professional doesn't necessarily require lots of RAM, they may prioritise other aspects of the hardware such as the SoC, screen. Their needs may even be in text-based documents, presentations, and more.
So I think the question has less to do with needs and more to do with Apple's business model, where they'll choose to switch to 24gb/32gb once it reaches a good scalable price.
Like any business, Apple wants to sell the minimum viable product so that they have a reason for customers to upgrade and spend more money. In this regard, 16gb could fulfil a number of professional-orientated tasks or workflows, but the question is how this scales with a person's perception of professional work.
What's different today is that many professional workflows have been democratised, they run more efficiently and with cheaper (less high-end) hardware. Consider 4K video editing: only 10 years ago this would have been very much a Mac Pro-centric workflow, but today an iPhone has the capability to do so, with virtually no slowdown.
A professional doesn't necessarily require lots of RAM, they may prioritise other aspects of the hardware such as the SoC, screen. Their needs may even be in text-based documents, presentations, and more.
So I think the question has less to do with needs and more to do with Apple's business model, where they'll choose to switch to 24gb/32gb once it reaches a good scalable price.
My MacBook Pro with an actual M4 Pro chip in it came with 24 GB of memory by default. No complaints here.
Exactly. Pro is a trim level, nothing more.
16gb is plenty for me, personally, on my MBP. If Apple wants to add more, go for it, but I'm not paying extra.
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I have a base-spec M2 Pro 14" with 16GB RAM, and I use it as my primary work machine. I make extensive use of Docker, and have (at time of writing this comment) 19 applications running including Safari, Docker, an IDE, Outlook, Teams, etc. I also have two 4K displays plugged in, so that'll be hitting RAM too (shared memory pool).
I've never - not once in the nearly three years I've had the machine - had an issue that I could pin on low available memory. The biggest constraint I've had is disk space if I was to complain about anything.
It's by far the best machine I've ever had, and I have no need for any more RAM than I have now. That might not be true for someone else who has different needs, but I feel the "16GB RAM is not enough" statement to be laughable.
I've never - not once in the nearly three years I've had the machine - had an issue that I could pin on low available memory. The biggest constraint I've had is disk space if I was to complain about anything.
It's by far the best machine I've ever had, and I have no need for any more RAM than I have now. That might not be true for someone else who has different needs, but I feel the "16GB RAM is not enough" statement to be laughable.
If 16Gb is not enough for you, buy more RAM.
But do ask if you really need more RAM, or then you think you "deserve" more Ram as status symbol.
The reality is that "Apple flexers" buy hardware that's a far higher spec than they need, they just buy higher spec machines to make themselves feel important, like buying a Range Rover to drive to the supermarket.
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And...I'm not sure how MBAs got into the discussion here, but if people concerned about using "Pro" and "16GB" in the same sentence are solving the "Pro" problem by buying an up-spec'd MBA there's a huge disconnect being overlooked: the MBA display isn't going to work for professional use by anyone who works with media or colors, and you can't improve the MBA display by throwing more money at an MBA.
This discussion doesn't make sense to me. Words are words...choose what you need, or choose what you want, and buy that machine. If you want more machine for your money, you may need to leave the Apple ecosphere.
This, exactly!
What does the OP mean in saying that it’s insufficient for a “pro” device? What does it mean to be a “pro” device? I’m a professional (educator), and 16GB of RAM is quite sufficient for my needs.
You are correct in that there has been issues that could give a Kernel Panic (even if rare) and other stability issues in MacOS and some people seem to think it is always a hardware problem, but that is not always the case and Apple has done changes in MacOS that fixed those problems.
So I agree with you that MacOS overall has been very stable as of later years. I think I had one problem with Sonoma once where it did crash and returned me to the login screen (i.e. not a Kernel Panic, but a WindowServer process crash) but that hasn't been seen since Sequoia and it was a very long time I saw a Kernel Panic.
Haven't tired Tahoe yet, but I hope the stability continues.
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The only complaint that is valid is that by starting at 16 GB most of the products people would actually want are BTO and not stocked in stores, so they take longer to get (though there is still a fair amount of variety in the retail channel). I stopped listening to price complaints when the word "tariff" entered my daily vocabulary.
I can't wait until "24GB isn't enough for a Pro device"... LOL
I have a 2015 MacBook Pro 15 which came standard with 16 GB of RAM. The 13 inch model came with 8 GB and that may have been standard for several years after that. If you really needed more, you knew it and you got 16.
The premium Windows laptop market is similar in base to MacBooks today with 16 GB as standard. The difference is that an upgrade to 32 GB is often $50.
The premium Windows laptop market is similar in base to MacBooks today with 16 GB as standard. The difference is that an upgrade to 32 GB is often $50.
here we go again...
Lots of people just want a pro device for the ports, the better screen/bigger, better audio, and cpu/gpu performance. I am a sys admin. I like working on a mac, but unless I'm running VM's which isn't often and in those cases it's just to test something for compatibility, I don't need more then 16 GB....and yes, I'm a pro.
It doesn't need to go, but consumers need to be aware that it's really only a marketing term at this stage. It's Apple version of "supersized", nothing else.
There's something darkly funny about people thinking "I'm a PROFESSIONAL! So I need a XXX Pro, because that's professional and important enough fso someone as important as me! "
A professional life coach, let's say, doesn't need a MacBook Pro. They might want one, but they don't need one.
Use-cases. Know your use-cases.
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The 2006 Mac mini has an official maximum of 2GB. Supposedly you could get 3 GB in it. but the mismatched SIMMs would incur a performance penalty.
Until the G5 came out the max in any Mac was 2GB due to the way Apple carved up the 32 bit memory map. All but the last G5 were limited to 4GB per CPU even with the 64 bit processor.
According to MacTracker the 2006 Mac Pro was officially limited to 16 GB but 32 GB would work with the right SIMMs.
Your data is behind the times.
The real reason so many laptops have moved to soldered RAM
Soldered RAM is becoming very common in laptops of all shapes and sizes -- but is that a good thing?
www.digitaltrends.com
"The completely redesigned Dell XPS 14 and 16 came out this year as two of the most divisive laptops in recent memory. No, it wasn’t just the capacitive touch buttons or invisible trackpad that caused an uproar — it also moved to soldered RAM. This was a big change from the past, where the XPS 15 and 17 were both celebrated for their upgradability.
Of course, Dell isn’t the first to make the transition. In fact, they’re one of the last, which is what makes the decision so much tougher to swallow. Where soldered RAM was previously limited to just MacBooks and ultrabooks, it’s now affecting most high-performance laptops for gaming as well. Even the fantastic ROG Zephyrus G14 moved to soldered memory this year."
Perhaps it’s time for the old so-called white box shops to come back. Instead of custom-building desktops, they can assemble advanced laptops with the components of one’s choice.Your data is behind the times.
The real reason so many laptops have moved to soldered RAM
Soldered RAM is becoming very common in laptops of all shapes and sizes -- but is that a good thing?
"The completely redesigned Dell XPS 14 and 16 came out this year as two of the most divisive laptops in recent memory. No, it wasn’t just the capacitive touch buttons or invisible trackpad that caused an uproar — it also moved to soldered RAM. This was a big change from the past, where the XPS 15 and 17 were both celebrated for their upgradability.
Of course, Dell isn’t the first to make the transition. In fact, they’re one of the last, which is what makes the decision so much tougher to swallow. Where soldered RAM was previously limited to just MacBooks and ultrabooks, it’s now affecting most high-performance laptops for gaming as well. Even the fantastic ROG Zephyrus G14 moved to soldered memory this year."
Your data is behind the times.
The real reason so many laptops have moved to soldered RAM
Soldered RAM is becoming very common in laptops of all shapes and sizes -- but is that a good thing?
"The completely redesigned Dell XPS 14 and 16 came out this year as two of the most divisive laptops in recent memory. No, it wasn’t just the capacitive touch buttons or invisible trackpad that caused an uproar — it also moved to soldered RAM. This was a big change from the past, where the XPS 15 and 17 were both celebrated for their upgradability.
Of course, Dell isn’t the first to make the transition. In fact, they’re one of the last, which is what makes the decision so much tougher to swallow. Where soldered RAM was previously limited to just MacBooks and ultrabooks, it’s now affecting most high-performance laptops for gaming as well. Even the fantastic ROG Zephyrus G14 moved to soldered memory this year."
It was Intel for Lunar Lake but the pricing of $50 for an additional 16 GB is reasonable.
And that's why they use it. We no longer have the Good-Better-Best signs at the Apple Store, so adding buzzwords like Pro, Air, and Ultra mean things to people. Most of the people buying Pro devices are not using them for anything work-related. They aspire to be Pros. Same way a lot of people buy the Apple Watch Ultra because they want to be the cliff climbing, diving, rugged outdoor individuals in the ads, but a lot of them are geeks sitting at desks (and every chef on the Food Network for some reason). I am all for new buzzwords, though. I like how automotive trims have words like Elite, Premium, Limited, etc. Or just go full crazy with XLE, FX, etc. I would buy a MacBook Sport Touring.
Do you have any reason or data or objective facts to back this up? Or are you just angry that some consumer who you will never meet on the other side of the world will buy a MBP with 16GB of RAM and enjoy their machine for a decade with absolutely zero thought as to the amount of RAM, at all.
If you want more RAM, buy more RAM 🙄
Laptops ( and most computers ) are not designed in this way anymore though, and companies who do, such as Framework, are seen as outliers. It's no longer the "Lego model". The "white box" store would have to have motherboards and components built for them especially for this purpose. And that means a far higher (and probably uncompetitive) price to the customer.
I am aware of that. Perhaps it’s time for that to change. On the other hand, RAM built to the CAMM2 standard - which isn’t far off - may be the next long-term solution.