16GB RAM is build to order, therefore none will be available in Apple Stores?

[symphony]

Is that how build to order works?

That means the two options we have for M2 MacBook Air for in store purchase is only increased GPU core and storage, but no increase in RAM?

 

[dizmonk]

I think the honest answer we don't know yet, especially since Apple hasn't even announced the availability date. From my experience, they will have a few different models, likely one configuration with 16gb but they will be hard to get since there will not be many in stores. When I was looking for a 16-gb m1 I had to look at several stores in my area and they had a few every now and then. I think the 24gb will only be available via online order.

 

[turbineseaplane]

That's one of the bigger bummers about them not raising the base model RAM..

There are so many great places to buy Macs now - and get great deals! - but almost none will have anything but base and/or standard config options.

 

[symphony]

That's one of the bigger bummers about them not raising the base model RAM..

There are so many great places to buy Macs now - and get great deals! - but almost none will have anything but base and/or standard config options.

Good point. It is unlikely there will be deals for 16GB RAM Macs, because they are custom configurations.

 

[Dealmans]

All the retail stores in Australia only stock 8gb air's so you miss out on the 10% sales they have if you want 16gb.

 

[IJBrekke]

My running theory is that the M1/M2 architecture is too powerful and efficient for Apple’s planned obsolescense cycle, so they are hamstringing the RAM to compensate. Any stocked laptops sold in stores will only have 8GB, so those customers will be back in 2-3 years looking for a new machine because theirs “feels like it’s slowing down.” It won’t be an issue with the M1/M2, it will be lack of RAM.

 

[turbineseaplane]

My running theory is that the M1/M2 architecture is too powerful and efficient for Apple’s planned obsolescense cycle, so they are hamstringing the RAM to compensate.

It's cynical -- but I find it hard to disagree with your assessment honestly.
You may indeed be on to something here.

 

[jav6454]

Good point. It is unlikely there will be deals for 16GB RAM Macs, because they are custom configurations.

16GB RAM isn't considered that custom. Apple did carry 16GB models of the 13" M1 MBP and the M1 MBA in stores. In fact, Apple is known to even carry multiple configurations of RAM with multiple configurations of SSD storage.

I know, because when I bought my 13" M1 MBP, I could select for immediate pickup for 512GB and 1TB options, both with either 8GB or 16GB of RAM.

That said, due to the supply chain crunch right now, the more likely options will be the standard configs with enhanced versions being in heavily limited supplies in-store.

 

[playtech1]

Apple Stores usually carry a 'fully loaded' spec in store and for immediate pick-up, which will have all - or nearly all - of the top spec choices.

But that's no help for people looking for a bargain from Amazon or similar. I really wish at least the upgraded config had 16GB RAM.

 

[blinkered]

My running theory is that the M1/M2 architecture is too powerful and efficient for Apple’s planned obsolescense cycle, so they are hamstringing the RAM to compensate. Any stocked laptops sold in stores will only have 8GB, so those customers will be back in 2-3 years looking for a new machine because theirs “feels like it’s slowing down.” It won’t be an issue with the M1/M2, it will be lack of RAM.

That seems entirely plausible. I have 16GB in my 10 year old MacBook Pro, so 8GB as a base today feels entirely silly.

 

[jav6454]

That seems entirely plausible. I have 16GB in my 10 year old MacBook Pro, so 8GB as a base today feels entirely silly.

Heck, late 2008 MacBooks and MacBook Pros supported 8GB of RAM.

 

[NorrisKillsKids]

I know it has been said but Apple does carry multiple configs, likely not as many but my Partner got her M1 Air at an apple store same day with 16gb/512

 

[jav6454]

I know it has been said but Apple does carry multiple configs, likely not as many but my Partner got her M1 Air at an apple store same day with 16gb/512

Indeed, not as many in stock, but enough to allow people to have options in-store.

 

[Useless Touchbar]

That seems entirely plausible. I have 16GB in my 10 year old MacBook Pro, so 8GB as a base today feels entirely silly.

It's strange seeing how little the amounts of RAM on base models have changed even in last 10 years when you consider how much of a change there has been in CPU power during the same timeframe.

M2 MBA is like 10x faster than MBA from 2012, and yet the base model M2 MBA only has 2x the RAM compared to a base model MBA from 2012.

 

[jav6454]

It's strange seeing how little the amounts of RAM on base models have changed even in last 10 years when you consider how much of a change there has been in CPU power during the same timeframe.

M2 MBA is like 10x faster than MBA from 2012, and yet the base model M2 MBA only has 2x the RAM compared to a base model MBA from 2012.

The problem with base memory has been the standards have changed from 8 years ago. Let's use the following example:

Let's say in 2016 the standard speed was DDR3-1066 for a base of 8GB, which means 1066MHz memory speeds for those DRAM chips. Apple eventually upgraded to a faster memory bus with DDR4 at 1600MHz which allows better memory throughput. That upgrade is expensive as newer standards are always expensive upgrades. Hence, the price stays the same as the more expensive standard eats into any DRAM capacity increase. Rinse, wash, repeat.

Right now, Apple is using the latest LPDR5X, not a common standard as it's fairly new and not many chip makers are mass producing it. Hence, whatever price reduction there could have been due to increasing chip densities, they went away with the more expensive standard. Ergo, 8GB stays.

 

[jdlnmia]

There will be an "Ultimate" in-store SKU as in the past for every Mac product. The MacBook Air will probably be one with the full CPU/GPU count, 24GB RAM and 1TB Storage. In the past they have stocked 16GB / 1TB MacBook Airs and 13" MacBook Pros in stock...

 

[MYZ]

LPDDR5X costs more to manufacture than what LPDDR3 did. Apple is probably making smaller margins on the new product even with the price bump since the M2 chip itself is also costlier to manufacture than the M1, plus inflation, etc.

And I don't think there is a single ultraportable windows laptop with 24 GB, or more, of LPDDR5X on the market for any price. So they could have charged silly amounts of money for that upgrade, at least for a year or so until competition comes.

 

[JPack]

LPDDR5X costs more to manufacture than what LPDDR3 did. Apple is probably making smaller margins on the new product even with the price bump since the M2 chip itself is also costlier to manufacture than the M1, plus inflation, etc.

And I don't think there is a single ultraportable windows laptop with 24 GB, or more, of LPDDR5X on the market for any price. So they could have charged silly amounts of money for that upgrade, at least for a year or so until competition comes.

8GB of LPDDR5X and a 30% larger die might each cost $30 extra. Most people are smart enough to go for 16GB and/or 512GB, so the margins are definitely still there.

There are plenty of ultraportables like ThinkPad T14s with 32GB RAM. Most people look at the overall package and not the memory technology.

 

[ascender]

A lot of people I know who don't work in Technology and aren't geeks, are quite happy with 8GB RAM in a laptop - it will last them for many years and let them do a "bit of everything" without ever running in to any issues. Most of these people with Macs are also still on Intel, so they'll see a massive difference when they move to Apple Silicon.

I think sometimes we forget that your regular MR poster isn't typical of Apple's target audience for their Non-Pro products.

 

[jav6454]

8GB of LPDDR5X and a 30% larger die might each cost $30 extra. Most people are smart enough to go for 16GB and/or 512GB, so the margins are definitely still there.

There are plenty of ultraportables like ThinkPad T14s with 32GB RAM. Most people look at the overall package and not the memory technology.

Agreed, it's a shame Apple is implementing new tech revisions too fast. Gives little chance for decreased costs and better base models.

 

[saudor]

The problem with base memory has been the standards have changed from 8 years ago. Let's use the following example:

Let's say in 2016 the standard speed was DDR3-1066 for a base of 8GB, which means 1066MHz memory speeds for those DRAM chips. Apple eventually upgraded to a faster memory bus with DDR4 at 1600MHz which allows better memory throughput. That upgrade is expensive as newer standards are always expensive upgrades. Hence, the price stays the same as the more expensive standard eats into any DRAM capacity increase. Rinse, wash, repeat.

Right now, Apple is using the latest LPDR5X, not a common standard as it's fairly new and not many chip makers are mass producing it. Hence, whatever price reduction there could have been due to increasing chip densities, they went away with the more expensive standard. Ergo, 8GB stays.

The problem is most people won't notice going from 1066 to 1600 MHz, but people will 100% notice when a system runs out of RAM. I rather they stay with "crap" RAM and increase capacity. Same with SSDs. Again, most people aren't going to notice SATA SSD performance vs NVME because the IOPS is high enough for almost all tasks. Similarly, they'll definitely notice when they run out of that 128gb ssd storing a few videos and syncing their iDevices. Yet they keep pushing for higher and higher SSD speeds (THREE GIGABYTES PER SECOND READ AND WRITE SPEEDS!!!1 Cant innovate my ass!) and staying with something silly like 8gb ram and 128/256gb capacity

Starting at 16gb and 512gb + ssd is going to be a huge quality of life improvement. But of course, this means longer usable life of the device since it will take longer before people feel the itch to upgrade. (upgraded a friend's 2012 13" with 1TB SSD and 16gb RAM and they have zero issues with speeds now, which is bad for apple. Safari gotta reload tabs for people to consider buying new again)

 

[jav6454]

The problem is most people won't notice going from 1066 to 1600 MHz, but people will 100% notice when a system runs out of RAM. I rather they stay with "crap" RAM and increase capacity. Same with SSDs. Again, most people aren't going to notice SATA SSD performance vs NVME because the IOPS is high enough for almost all tasks. Similarly, they'll definitely notice when they run out of that 128gb ssd storing a few videos and syncing their iDevices. Yet they keep pushing for higher and higher SSD speeds (THREE GIGABYTES PER SECOND READ AND WRITE SPEEDS!!!1 Cant innovate my ass!) and staying with something silly like 8gb ram and 128/256gb capacity

Starting at 16gb and 512gb + ssd is going to be a huge quality of life improvement. But of course, this means longer usable life of the device since it will take longer before people feel the itch to upgrade. (upgraded a friend's 2012 13" with 1TB SSD and 16gb RAM and they have zero issues with speeds now, which is bad for apple. Safari gotta reload tabs for people to consider buying new again)

Agreed on that account. There is no denying the disservice by going too fast in standard adoptions.

 

[537635]

What do you think the waiting time will be for M2 Air BTO (16GB/1TB)?

Judging by 14&16s this could easily be months...

 

[playtech1]

I think the M1 model BTO with 16GB and 1TB at £1,599 is in many ways the better choice than the higher tier M2 which is £1,549 and has 8GB/512GB.

That extra M2 speed isn't much use if you have run out of RAM.

 

[southerndoc]

Maybe not initially, but I was able to order my MacBook Air M1 16GB/1TB for pickup same day. It was 6 months into its release though.