1st time on MacOS (Mini M2) which monitor (and monitor problems)?

[vded]

Hello guys, after 23 years with Windows PCs made the change for first time on MacOS (I love iOS and iPadOS and now it was MacOS turn).

So, the Mac Mini M2 will be at the office next to my NUC-PC which is running the computerisation of my company.
The Mini will be the media consumption machine, so no heavy usage.

My current monitor is a Dell S2319H (23” 1080p) from 2018 and has only one HDMI input and speakers.

So, I’ve bought an HDMI Switch which changes the PC and Mac inputs.

Keyboard and mouse I’m using Logitech MX Keys and MX Anywhere 3.

And here the problems begin (I’ve spent many hours reading on Google and checking YouTube videos):

- Can’t change monitor brightness and speaker volume through Mac Mini M2. And the Mini’s speaker is garbage. Read that Mac doesn’t support HDMI-CEC and that’s the issue. Downloaded a program from GitHub called MonitorControl v.4.1.0 (https://github.com/MonitorControl/MonitorControl/releases). When I’m trying to adjust the brightness the display is flickering (see screenshot) and I have to reboot the Mac for the image to be back to normal. The speaker control doesn’t work at all (even through MonitorControl’s adjustment nor with the Logitech MX Keys keyboard). Already, have bought and tried 3 different HDMI cables with no luck (one’s from Amazon with 3000+ 5 star rating).

- The Mac’s UI seems too blurred compared to Windows. Both at 1080p. With the Mac almost all the letters are too small with rough edges and blurred. On the contrary with Windows are crystal clear.

Is there any solution to above issues or I’ll have to buy a new monitor and work with double setup (each computer have it’s own monitor)?

If the latter, because I run out of budget, is there any good monitor with speakers at 250€ (250$) area? Should I choose QHD or 4k? And at these high resolutions for how many inches I should go?

I’m sorry for the long post and the many questions, but I feel like I’m drowning with the MacOS and don’t know where to ask (here in Greece 99.9% has Windows PCs).

Thanks in advance,
Vasilis

 

[PauloSera]

macOS uses a 2x display scaling, it is intended for high DPI displays. A 23" 1080p display is not going to look good under any circumstances.

There are really only a handful of displays on the market that are actually designed with the Mac in mind, and have the correct combination of size and resolution. I don't think going for one of those makes sense for your scenario unless you really want 2 displays.

To find something that works for your situation, I would suggest looking for a 4K display around 23-24" with HDMI input, and then playing with the display scaling options on macOS. 2x is going to be too large, so you can drop it down a little until assets are a normal size, and that should still be reasonably acceptable sharpness. And it should work with the PC as well.

 

[Fishrrman]

There's nothing wrong with a 23" display running 1080p with Mac. Will be fine.
I use a 27" 1080p display. Looks ok to me.

I suggest that BEFORE you try anything odd (like a "switch box"), that you connect the display DIRECTLY to the Mac, and see if you can get running that way (keyboard and mouse, too).

Does it work that way?

 

[vded]

macOS uses a 2x display scaling, it is intended for high DPI displays. A 23" 1080p display is not going to look good under any circumstances.

There are really only a handful of displays on the market that are actually designed with the Mac in mind, and have the correct combination of size and resolution. I don't think going for one of those makes sense for your scenario unless you really want 2 displays.

To find something that works for your situation, I would suggest looking for a 4K display around 23-24" with HDMI input, and then playing with the display scaling options on macOS. 2x is going to be too large, so you can drop it down a little until assets are a normal size, and that should still be reasonably acceptable sharpness. And it should work with the PC as well.

Ah, didn’t knew about the 2x display scaling and the high DPI displays.

You propose to buy a new 4K display (23”-24”) with at least 2 HDMI inputs and then change the inputs via display’s UI? Wouldn’t be too time consuming against one button with the HDMI Switch which is changing the inputs in 1 second?

Also, if I buy a new monitor with the above specs, the problems with the brightness and speakers adjustment will be disappeared? In this occasion the connections is better to be done with HDMI to HDMI cable or Type-C to HDMI?

 

[vded]

There's nothing wrong with a 23" display running 1080p with Mac. Will be fine.
I use a 27" 1080p display. Looks ok to me.

I suggest that BEFORE you try anything odd (like a "switch box"), that you connect the display DIRECTLY to the Mac, and see if you can get running that way (keyboard and mouse, too).

Does it work that way?

Thanks for the fast reply.
I’ve tried to connect the monitor directly to Mac with 3 different HDMI to HDMI cables but the problems persist. All of them, can’t change brightness and speakers volume (work only on 100%), and the UI is so cluttered (no sharpness at all).

 

[PauloSera]

There's nothing wrong with a 23" display running 1080p with Mac. Will be fine.
I use a 27" 1080p display. Looks ok to me.

Just....no. How can you even claim that in 2023? Let alone say that to someone who has already said it looks blurry. The Mac has had 2x scaling for retina displays for 11 years already! Come on.

 

[PauloSera]

Ah, didn’t knew about the 2x display scaling and the high DPI displays.

You propose to buy a new 4K display (23”-24”) with at least 2 HDMI inputs and then change the inputs via display’s UI? Wouldn’t be too time consuming against one button with the HDMI Switch which is changing the inputs in 1 second?

Also, if I buy a new monitor with the above specs, the problems with the brightness and speakers adjustment will be disappeared? In this occasion the connections is better to be done with HDMI to HDMI cable or Type-C to HDMI?

Brightness and speaker adjustment are a gamble. I don't think that will ever work over HDMI.

I suggest HDMI so that you could keep using your HDMI switch, even though that device is probably going to cause problems.

If I'm making a real suggestion, it would be a Thunderbolt display that is made for Mac. But you have other considerations.

 

[macsound1]

You can use Sound Source to control the HDMI volume. MacOS does this because it's assuming an HDMI audio output is going to something like a TV, that has it's own volume control. It's trying to prevent you from doing something stupid like turning the volume down on the mac and then up on the TV.

Confirming you're saying the monitor only flickers when you use a 3rd part app to try and control it's brightness?

For image sharpness - have you looked at the options in System Preferences > Display? The mac probably chose something based on the EDID signal from the monitor (or the switchbox), but you can change that. Maybe it's showing in 1080i or something weird.

Best of luck

 

[HouseLannister]

Related question: does the M2 mini have any monitor sleep issues like was reported on the M1 mini? The issue was widely reported when the M1 mini first launched, but haven't heard anything in awhile. Was the issue resolved?

 

[vded]

Brightness and speaker adjustment are a gamble. I don't think that will ever work over HDMI.

I suggest HDMI so that you could keep using your HDMI switch, even though that device is probably going to cause problems.

If I'm making a real suggestion, it would be a Thunderbolt display that is made for Mac. But you have other considerations.

It seems so odd that Mac can’t transfer audio though HDMI or adjust brightness when connected to a monitor!
So all the million users around the world are facing the same issue and Apple don’t add support for CEC? Oh man, as much as I love  products, really hate these decisions.

As long as I keep digging the issues maybe it’s the best option to buy a new budget monitor which fully work with Mini and keep the old Dell for the Windows. I don’t have a problem to ditch the switch for a more appropriate setup. It worth only 10€.

Found some ThunderBolt3 displays but at 4K resolution their price is around 500€/$. Way beyond my budget. Is there any cheaper alternative?

 

[vded]

You can use Sound Source to control the HDMI volume. MacOS does this because it's assuming an HDMI audio output is going to something like a TV, that has it's own volume control. It's trying to prevent you from doing something stupid like turning the volume down on the mac and then up on the TV.

Confirming you're saying the monitor only flickers when you use a 3rd part app to try and control it's brightness?

For image sharpness - have you looked at the options in System Preferences > Display? The mac probably chose something based on the EDID signal from the monitor (or the switchbox), but you can change that. Maybe it's showing in 1080i or something weird.

Best of luck

This app sounds promising. Will install it tomorrow when I’m at work and report back. Thanks for the suggestion.

Confirmed, the monitor only flickers when trying to adjust the brightness though MonitorControl v4.1.0 app.

Been in this Display menu before but didn’t changed anything because I’ve assumed the O/S have automatically chosen the best and optimal resolution (which was 1920x1080 in my occasion). Will double check it tomorrow for other given resolutions.

As a general rule, when searching for a Mac monitor which specs should we consider important (beside 4K)? The desktop market for Macs is completely different from Windows as I can see.

 

[mrfunnypenguin]

With the Mac almost all the letters are too small with rough edges and blurred. On the contrary with Windows are crystal clear.

There is a way to disable Font Smoothing in macOS.

Enter this into the magical app called Terminal:
defaults -currentHost write -g AppleFontSmoothing -int 0

Click enter, then restart your Mac.

 

[mrfunnypenguin]

I love iOS and iPadOS

Another cool thing about macOS is Universal Control & Sidecar. Sidecar lets you use your iPad as an external display, and Universal Control allows you to control an iPad or another Mac with your Mac's trackpad. Both very cool features.

 

[G5isAlive]

It seems so odd that Mac can’t transfer audio though HDMI or adjust brightness when connected to a monitor!
So all the million users around the world are facing the same issue and Apple don’t add support for CEC? Oh man, as much as I love  products, really hate these decisions.

As long as I keep digging the issues maybe it’s the best option to buy a new budget monitor which fully work with Mini and keep the old Dell for the Windows. I don’t have a problem to ditch the switch for a more appropriate setup. It worth only 10€.

Found some ThunderBolt3 displays but at 4K resolution their price is around 500€/$. Way beyond my budget. Is there any cheaper alternative?

Unfortunately, Mac mini's and budget monitors don't always play nice for the reasons you are running into. Even my relatively expensive 4k LG doesn't let me adjust brightness or volume from my Mac. This doesn't really bother me because I tend to set the brilliance once and leave it, and the LG is easy to adjust manually with a button on the bottom. As for sound, I use the audio output to cheap speakers. Anything is better than a cheap monitor speaker. Literally anything.

 

[AlixSPQR]

Just....no. How can you even claim that in 2023? Let alone say that to someone who has already said it looks blurry. The Mac has had 2x scaling for retina displays for 11 years already! Come on.

My brother wanted a small display so he uses a 19" monitor coupled to his M1 mini with a USB-C/HDMI to VGA adapter. It looks okay to him, he says. He had a 24" 1080p before and was happy with the picture quality, but thought it was too big. This is a subjective matter, not objective. Please don't advise people as if your opinion is a universal truth.

 

[brucewayne]

It seems so odd that Mac can’t transfer audio though HDMI or adjust brightness when connected to a monitor!
So all the million users around the world are facing the same issue and Apple don’t add support for CEC? Oh man, as much as I love  products, really hate these decisions.

As long as I keep digging the issues maybe it’s the best option to buy a new budget monitor which fully work with Mini and keep the old Dell for the Windows. I don’t have a problem to ditch the switch for a more appropriate setup. It worth only 10€.

Found some ThunderBolt3 displays but at 4K resolution their price is around 500€/$. Way beyond my budget. Is there any cheaper alternative?

HDMI-CEC has nothing to do with your mac sending audio to the hdmi port. -CEC is the communications standard that allows devices connected by HDMI to send commands like turn on, turn volume up and down, etc.

Your Mac is going to send the audio and display as is to your display via hdmi - it is up to the monitor to control that from there. You need to upgrade to an Apple display if you want the mac to control the monitor

For the audio itself, if you click the speaker icon in the menubar, do you have the monitor as an output choice? Note that switcher may intercept the handshake and provide its own data back to the mac

As far as resolution, Apple has been pushing retina displays for a decade now and they have made their UI look best under 2x scaling around 210 dpi. In other words, a 24" 4k monitor will look best at a 'resolution' of 1920x1080p. Yes, it sucks, and disabling font smoothing may help (see instructions on the post above), but in the end text probably won't look as good as your windows machine. There are some new monitors coming out from Dell and Samsung (27" 5k) that will give some additional options but they will likely be expensive also.

 

[AlixSPQR]

You need to upgrade to an Apple display if you want the mac to control the monitor

I use MonitorControl and it works fine with volume, brightness, and contrast. I have a mini Late 2012 and a Benq GW2450HM via HDMI.

 

[vded]

There is a way to disable Font Smoothing in macOS.

Enter this into the app called Terminal:
defaults -currentHost write -g AppleFontSmoothing -int 0

Click enter, then restart your Mac.

Will give it a try, thanks. Is there any way to revert it if I don’t like it?

 

[vded]

Unfortunately, Mac mini's and budget monitors don't always play nice for the reasons you are running into. Even my relatively expensive 4k LG doesn't let me adjust brightness or volume from my Mac. This doesn't really bother me because I tend to set the brilliance once and leave it, and the LG is easy to adjust manually with a button on the bottom. As for sound, I use the audio output to cheap speakers. Anything is better than a cheap monitor speaker. Literally anything.

I don’t disagree about audio output quality.
Although, my workspace is limited and that’s why I’m searching (and already own) a monitor with built-in speakers.

 

[mrfunnypenguin]

Is there any way to revert it if I don’t like it?

Yes.

No Font Smoothing:
defaults -currentHost write -g AppleFontSmoothing -int 0

Light Font Smoothing:
defaults -currentHost write -g AppleFontSmoothing -int 1

Default Font Smoothing:
defaults -currentHost write -g AppleFontSmoothing -int 2

Heavy Font Smoothing:
defaults -currentHost write -g AppleFontSmoothing -int 3

 

[PauloSera]

My brother wanted a small display so he uses a 19" monitor coupled to his M1 mini with a USB-C/HDMI to VGA adapter. It looks okay to him, he says. He had a 24" 1080p before and was happy with the picture quality, but thought it was too big. This is a subjective matter, not objective. Please don't advise people as if your opinion is a universal truth.

Please don't advise people as if junk displays from 15 years ago are perfectly acceptable today. They're not. You thinking an iPhone 3G is "good enough for today" would be a subjective opinion. Doesn't mean you're correct or should be advising anyone.

 

[vded]

HDMI-CEC has nothing to do with your mac sending audio to the hdmi port. -CEC is the communications standard that allows devices connected by HDMI to send commands like turn on, turn volume up and down, etc.

Your Mac is going to send the audio and display as is to your display via hdmi - it is up to the monitor to control that from there. You need to upgrade to an Apple display if you want the mac to control the monitor

For the audio itself, if you click the speaker icon in the menubar, do you have the monitor as an output choice? Note that switcher may intercept the handshake and provide its own data back to the mac

As far as resolution, Apple has been pushing retina displays for a decade now and they have made their UI look best under 2x scaling around 210 dpi. In other words, a 24" 4k monitor will look best at a 'resolution' of 1920x1080p. Yes, it sucks, and disabling font smoothing may help (see instructions on the post above), but in the end text probably won't look as good as your windows machine. There are some new monitors coming out from Dell and Samsung (27" 5k) that will give some additional options but they will likely be expensive also.

Thanks for the clarification. About CEC I read it somewhere on Reddit when searched for a solution.

Yes, when I click the speaker icon in the Control Center I see two outputs, one is the Mac Mini and the other is the Dell monitor.
When selecting the Mini I can control it’s volume (apparently), when I select the monitor the volume stays stuck at 100%.
Even, with the ControlMonitor app (I’ve posted the GitHub link in my first post), it gives me the ability to control the volume slider but it has no effect on the speakers.

With the 2x scaling you’re referring to, makes a 4K monitor almost useless if we have to use it in 1080p. Damn, paying for 4K and full use it at 1080p. I feel so exhausted it, all day searching for solutions, even paying for a new monitor and I’m still stuck.

 

[PauloSera]

With the 2x scaling you’re referring to, makes a 4K monitor almost useless if we have to use it in 1080p. Damn, paying for 4K and full use it at 1080p. I feel so exhausted it, all day searching for solutions, even paying for a new monitor and I’m still stuck.

No, that's the wrong thought process. You're not buying 4K just to get 4K pixels of real estate. You're getting it to increase the quality of the display, namely the pixel density.

As I said before, you don't have to run the display at looks like 1920x1080 (it would be too large anyway) unless it is as small as 21". There are some other scaling options. I am running my 4K displays at looks like 2304 x 1296. It is a good balance between pixel density and asset size. Very close in size to what you get natively on an iMac or Studio Display.

 

[sam_dean]

Just....no. How can you even claim that in 2023? Let alone say that to someone who has already said it looks blurry. The Mac has had 2x scaling for retina displays for 11 years already! Come on.

Maybe he's using a SKU different from OP so his experience is better?

 

[Fishrrman]

"Just....no. How can you even claim that in 2023? Let alone say that to someone who has already said it looks blurry. The Mac has had 2x scaling for retina displays for 11 years already! Come on."

Just... YES.
I've been using a 27" 1080p display for a number of years now.
Works fine for me.
Particularly because of my older eyes, it's not so much "the clarity" of text that matters to me, but the size. Too small, and I can't make it out, regardless of clarity.

I also have a 2021 MacBook Pro 14", and text doesn't look "much different" to me on its retina display.

My next display will be 32". Undecided on whether to choose a native 1440p or a 4k display, scaled down to 1440p. I'm thinking the scaled display will actually be "blurrier"...
(I'd prefer a 32" 5k panel, but nobody makes or sells one)