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The picture shows VIA chip but the seller's description says NEC chip. I don't know what is the chip in your card.

VIA can work. I had one but if I remember it right, it needs a driver to work with OS X (OS 9 is not supported). It's not available on VIA's web site anymore but I have it backed up on a DVD and I think you can try downloading it from http://support.dynamode.com/test/drivers/controllers/usb-4pci-2.0/ (VIAMACUSB_160_G4_p1.pkg.zip).

The ones with NEC chip are more compatible/reliable with Mac, real plug & play for Mac.

PS. From http://gmb.nl/item.aspx?id=1852
The OP's card uses a VIA chip.

This is not a NEC card. It is indeed the VIA chipset. Attached photo is the card in my QS Powermac. Running 10.5.8, this card was plug & play for me - no issues at all, no driver installation. Whatever the usb2.0 PCI card required, it was already present within leopard. I cannot verify the seller claims of earlier OSX version support as this went straight into a leopard box. I have not tried it on earlier OSX releases or classic OS.
D57CBC0B-1D41-47B7-8444-BBEB2C5E983B.jpg

I agree that the symptoms don't sound like something stemming from a usb2.0 pci card. laggy delays and never ending spinning beachballs from my limited experience has always been either A.) not enough RAM, or B.) an old HDD starting to give up the ghost. I'm sure there are others but that is what I have run into.
 
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Out of curiosity, I installed my VIA (VT6212L) card along side the NEC (D720101F1) card. Both worked under 10.5.8 like you said. Tried booting 10.4.11, the Mac turned itself off during start-up...

No, I was not panic, quite used to it. Switched the video card from Radeon 9800 Pro to GeForce 4MX, then it booted but still crashed on start-up. Tried turning it on again, then it booted fine, was going to check how the VIA card was presented in System Profiler but the Mac went into sleep mode by itself and would not wake up...

Fine, tried it again, this time I could look into the System Profiler and the VIA card was recognized correctly and the ports worked, without installing any driver. I don't remember why I needed to install the driver. May be at the time I was using an earlier version of Tiger that needed the driver, I don't know.

Then I tried booting into OS 9, real OS 9 (not the Classic). Both cards showed up in OS 9's System Profiler. The NEC was in slot-2, the VIA was in slot-3. But only the NEC was recognized as USB. Sure enough, the only card that worked was the NEC one, at USB 1.1 speed.

OS-9.jpg


The reason I stopped using the VIA card was reliability. It seemed not to get along with the Radeon 9800 Pro and also had increasing intermittent issues. But I suspect the real culprit is my 15 years old MDD itself and the NEC card may be just "more forgiving" than the VIA card. The number of electrolytic capacitors on the two cards is quite different: the NEC has three 22uF 25V's and five 47uF 16V's while the VIA has only two 22uF 16V's. Not sure if that's enough to cause that difference.

2cards.jpg


By the way, I see currently available cards on eBay have a different layout from mine. So the NEC chip may not be a guarantee that it will work with a Mac anymore. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=3332.0
 
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Does anyone else experience that the more hard drives you add to the ports the slower the file transfer max speed is? Even when the drive is idling and just mounted to the desktop on Leopard in a G4. From 35MB/sec with 1 drive connected to 12MB/sec with 4 drives connected. Mine is an NEC card.
 
Does anyone else experience that the more hard drives you add to the ports the slower the file transfer max speed is? Even when the drive is idling and just mounted to the desktop on Leopard in a G4. From 35MB/sec with 1 drive connected to 12MB/sec with 4 drives connected. Mine is an NEC card.

I can’t say that I’ve experienced that, then again, I’m in the habit of walking away from a stack of large file transfers & doing other things.

Hmm, I know I have a nec card but Isure don’t remember which Mac it’s in.
 
Does anyone else experience that the more hard drives you add to the ports the slower the file transfer max speed is? Even when the drive is idling and just mounted to the desktop on Leopard in a G4. From 35MB/sec with 1 drive connected to 12MB/sec with 4 drives connected. Mine is an NEC card.
PCI bus can only handle like 130 MB/s, this is no surprise.
Does anyone know anything about those Sil3114 SATA cards from China and if they'll work in an MDD?
 
Does anyone know anything about those Sil3114 SATA cards from China and if they'll work in an MDD?

Not at the moment. There is a HK seller on eBay who has got hold of a stock of 2 port SiI3112 cards and, having modded and flashed them with the SeriTek firmware, is flogging them at $50 a pop. He would not have a business if you could do the same with SiI3114 cards.
 
PCI bus can only handle like 130 MB/s, this is no surprise.

Power Mac G4's have had 64-bit PCI slots since the Sawtooth, making theoretical max throughput 266 MB/s.

You're correct though, since that speed limit is for the bus as a whole (not each slot), the more I/O you put on that bus, the lower (slower) the available throughput will be.
 
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Power Mac G4's have had 64-bit PCI slots since the Sawtooth, making theoretical max throughput 266 MB/s.

You're correct though, since that speed limit is for the bus as a whole (not each slot), the more I/O you put on that bus, the lower (slower) the available throughput will be.
What about in my case where each slot on the card makes for slower file transfers even when the drive isn't being used and just resting on the desktop ??
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PCI bus can only handle like 130 MB/s, this is no surprise.
Does anyone know anything about those Sil3114 SATA cards from China and if they'll work in an MDD?
That's not even what i'm talking about..
 
What about in my case where each slot on the card makes for slower file transfers even when the drive isn't being used and just resting on the desktop ??

Well, a few things come to mind.

First, what makes you think your drive isn't being used when a file transfer is taking place? I don't know your setup, don't know whether your OS is on the drive you mention, etc., but the OS has to be doing something while that transfer is taking place. It may not be doing much - depends on whether or not your card uses bus mastering (handling on-card transfers itself, with minimal input from the OS), and how good that mastering is. One good way to find out is to launch Activity Monitor while doing a transfer, see how much your CPU and memory are being impacted, and by what.

Second, maybe you just have a bad card. It happens, even with NEC chipsets. I've had to throw cards away before.

Third, maybe you have one or more bad drives. Whether we're talking about USB flash drives, external hard drives, whatever - each of them is going to have its own drive controller that regulates I/O. It may not be that one of them is bad, it may be that it just doesn't "like" your card's chipset, or something.

Fourth, perhaps you've unknowingly added a USB 1.1 device somewhere in this mix? That will slow things down, even if the device works perfectly fine.

Fifth, maybe your Mac's PCI controller is failing. In which case none of the above matters. Unlikely but possible.

As you can hopefully see, there are just a whole lot of variables here. I haven't even touched all of them. To find the problem, you're going to have to test, test, test, until you've empirically eliminated enough of them that we, or you, can reason our way to a conclusion.
 
Well, a few things come to mind.

First, what makes you think your drive isn't being used when a file transfer is taking place? I don't know your setup, don't know whether your OS is on the drive you mention, etc., but the OS has to be doing something while that transfer is taking place. It may not be doing much - depends on whether or not your card uses bus mastering (handling on-card transfers itself, with minimal input from the OS), and how good that mastering is. One good way to find out is to launch Activity Monitor while doing a transfer, see how much your CPU and memory are being impacted, and by what.

Second, maybe you just have a bad card. It happens, even with NEC chipsets. I've had to throw cards away before.

Third, maybe you have one or more bad drives. Whether we're talking about USB flash drives, external hard drives, whatever - each of them is going to have its own drive controller that regulates I/O. It may not be that one of them is bad, it may be that it just doesn't "like" your card's chipset, or something.

Fourth, perhaps you've unknowingly added a USB 1.1 device somewhere in this mix? That will slow things down, even if the device works perfectly fine.

Fifth, maybe your Mac's PCI controller is failing. In which case none of the above matters. Unlikely but possible.

As you can hopefully see, there are just a whole lot of variables here. I haven't even touched all of them. To find the problem, you're going to have to test, test, test, until you've empirically eliminated enough of them that we, or you, can reason our way to a conclusion.


Okay i'll start from the beginning..imagine a 4 port pci card in the G4syba-sd-v2-5u-5-port-4-1-usb-2-0-pci-card-nec-chip-6.jpg
When i have 1 drive plugged in i get 35MB/sec doing file transfers/benchmarks.
Adding a 2nd drive to the port and speed gets reduced to 25MB/sec
Adding a 3rd drive the speeds drops to 16MB/sec
Adding a 4th drive makes file transfers crawl at 10.5MB/sec

On any drive i test thats on the card.
To me it seems like its sharing total bandwidth and dividing it between each port.

When i unplug 3 drives i get the full speed of the card once again.
Very Strange.
 
Okay i'll start from the beginning..imagine a 4 port pci card in the G4View attachment 851971
When i have 1 drive plugged in i get 35MB/sec doing file transfers/benchmarks.
Adding a 2nd drive to the port and speed gets reduced to 25MB/sec
Adding a 3rd drive the speeds drops to 16MB/sec
Adding a 4th drive makes file transfers crawl at 10.5MB/sec

On any drive i test thats on the card.
To me it seems like its sharing total bandwidth and dividing it between each port.

When i unplug 3 drives i get the full speed of the card once again.
Very Strange.
The 32-bit PCI bus can't handle 4 USB 2.0 drives at max speed. USB 2.0's max speed is 60 MB/s 60x4 is 240, 32-bit PCI at 33MHz (the MDD has 64-bit 33MHz PCI which is 266MHz but there isn't many cards that can make use of that) has a max speed of 133 MB/s. It should be able to handle 2 drives without slowing down, but that's probably just a limitation of the USB controller chip itself.
 
I'm not talking about usb max speeds I know the specs that has nothing to do with why every time i attach an additional drive to the ports and run a benchmark on drive #1 it slows down by half seems like. Then half again with a 3rd, and half again with a 4th drive connected. Each drive separately gets around 55MB/sec but as soon as another drive gets plugged in the speed drops.

It may very well be the limitation of the NEC controller chip like you say.
 
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I'm not talking about usb max speeds I know the specs that has nothing to do with why every time i attach an additional drive to the ports and run a benchmark on drive #1 it slows down by half seems like. Then half again with a 3rd, and half again with a 4th drive connected. Each drive separately gets around 55MB/sec but as soon as another drive gets plugged in the speed drops. To me it seems like total card bandwidth sharing and does anyone else experience this ??

I can't say I've experienced it, and can't test it right now either. So if that's all you really want to know, I hope someone else chimes in with your answer.

But you've been given nothing but good information here, from people trying to help you solve what we (or at least I) thought was a problem you wanted solved. If I was right, and you really do want a solution, then please stop just repeating the same information and showing us pictures of PCI cards like we don't know what they are.

I'm happy to help, I think others are too, but we need to know more than just that you're getting irritated because nobody is giving you exactly the answer you want.
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the MDD has 64-bit 33MHz PCI which is 266MHz but there isn't many cards that can make use of that

I agree with you about most cards not being able to make full use of it, but the bandwidth is still there regardless. I don't think 4 USB 2.0 drives - by themselves - would be enough to saturate the PCI bus. I think either he's got a poorly performing USB card, or other types of cards in the PCI slots pulling the bandwidth down.
 
I'm curious if the VIA chipset behaves the same way in this scenario.
 
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Its not being saturated its just mounted on the desktop.

You clearly don't understand what I mean. Whether something is mounted on the desktop has nothing to do with it, and nothing is ever "just" mounted on the desktop. Whenever a drive is connected, I/O occurs; if nothing else it's being indexed by the OS. It may not be using as much bandwidth as during a file transfer, but it is using bandwidth, and that's the point.

The more drives i plug in the slower all the drives become during file transfers. Its really strange.

But it's not strange, that's what you don't seem to get. There could be a hundred reasons for this, and you've been given several.

I wish someone can chime in with something i dont already know.

Well, we're not mind readers here, but good luck.
 
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I'm not talking about usb max speeds I know the specs that has nothing to do with why every time i attach an additional drive to the ports and run a benchmark on drive #1 it slows down by half seems like. Then half again with a 3rd, and half again with a 4th drive connected. Each drive separately gets around 55MB/sec but as soon as another drive gets plugged in the speed drops. To me it seems like total card bandwidth sharing and does anyone else experience this ??

I currently don't have fast enough USB drives to test. But let's think about it. Dividing the speed equally to each "active" port seems to be the most simple approach. Since the chip (I mean an NEC chip) has only one controller for high speed transfer.
https://datasheet.octopart.com/UPD720101F1-EA8-A-NEC-datasheet-7823645.pdf
 
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I currently don't have fast enough USB drives to test. But let's think about it. Dividing the speed equally to each "active" port seems to be the most simple approach. Since the chip (I mean an NEC chip) has only one controller for high speed transfer.
https://datasheet.octopart.com/UPD720101F1-EA8-A-NEC-datasheet-7823645.pdf

Ok, so if the card had a high speed controller core for each port vs just one, then we’d see full speed to the point of saturating the pci bus vs the stepped down speeds Op is experiencing? Is that what you are saying?
 
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Thanks that's useful technical information both you guys! That actually explains a lot with whats happening here.
 
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Ok, so if the card had a high speed controller core for each port vs just one, then we’d see full speed to the point of saturating the pci bus vs the stepped down speeds Op is experiencing? Is that what you are saying?

Yes.

Thanks !! Now that's useful information i didn't know. Is there an alternate chip or card for the older PPC G4's?

I don't know, since the other option I know (VIA VT6212, VT6212L) is also like the NEC (2x UHCI and 1x EHCI controllers).
 
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Yes.
I don't know, since the other option I know (VIA VT6212, VT6212L) is also like the NEC (2x UHCI and 1x EHCI controllers).

Well then I want those cards.:D

For the record, I didn't say that - the other guy did.

Powermacs are hard. Im going to go eat.
 
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I will get one of the VIA VT6212L cards and test.
Anyone know if the VIA VT6202 cards work too?
 
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Just in case anyone needs updated info I just installed this usb 2.0 pci card in my power Mac g4 quick silver. It was plug in play and worked for me in Mac OS 9.2.1 & Mac OS 10.4.11 & Sorbet Leopard. This really made transferring files was easier.

GODSHARK Internal USB 2.0 PCI Card, 5 Port (4 External & 1 Internal) PCI Expansion to USB 2 Adapter Hub Controller, High Speed 480Mbps for Desktop https://a.co/d/2PHGmW1
 
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