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2-pound dog used for deadly place kick
- Thread starter Frohickey
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wordmunger said:
I don't think any of the viewpoints are mutually exclusive.
Meat eater means that I love eating dead animals. If its barbeque sauce slathered all over it, the better.
Owning a pet means that I love live animals too. Live animals and barbeque sauce don't get together well, especially if you have wall-to-wall carpetting.
Advocating death penalty for animal cruelty, maybe tying them up and slathering barbeque sauce over them while they put near a fireant hill would be a good thing to do.
So... death penalty for all meat eaters? Hmmm... should help with the world population problem--except perhaps in Buddhist India.Frohickey said:
Read the post. I'm talking about what the penalty should be OUTSIDE of the property crime.Frohickey said:
i personally think this is so sad - why do people do this?, i just don't understand how people could get fun out of doing this to an animal - u know regardless of whether the doggie was cute or not - this is just wrong - i think they should introduce life sentences for people who do this to animals - CAN U IMAGINE THE PAIN THAT THE ANIMAL FELT? - maybe then scum will learn not to do this - anyway where did he get 25,000 for bail - in fact he shouldn't be given bail.
Killing stuff doesn't make sense, but it's the way the world works. Furthermore, killing things that society finds it unacceptable to kill because it's "fun" is a sign there's something wrong with you.
Here are two differences: If I join the military and you send me out to kill people, it is generally speaking socially acceptable. Yes, those people probably want to kill me, and it's quite possible I don't want to kill them, but it's a sanctioned act. And, if you enjoy doing it, there's probably something wrong with you.
If I go down the street and beat a bum to death for fun, that is highly socially unacceptable. It served no purpose, was malicious, and is a bad, bad, thing--a clear sign of someone in need of help.
So, if my job is to raise and slaughter chickens for food, that is socially acceptable. I probably don't enjoy doing it, but there is a purpose--they provide food, necessary or not. It may not be a terribly mentally healthy thing to do, but it's natural and part of society.
If I go down the street and beat my neighbor's pet chicken (hey, I know people with pet chickens) to death because it's fun, there's something wrong with me. The life of the chicken itself may not have more weight as a moral absolute, but the purpose of the killing is significantly different, as is the motivation that caused me to do it.
So, basically, anybody who place kicks an ancient 2-pound dog that was by all accounts very friendly toward people has something seriously wrong with them, and I'd be more worried about that guy than a car thief.
I tell you, if that had been my dog it'd have taken more willpower than I probably have to just hold him until police arrived. I can imagine a good hard placekick to a certain region that'd be appropriate to the situation, and hopefully prevent any sadistic offspring, too.
Here are two differences: If I join the military and you send me out to kill people, it is generally speaking socially acceptable. Yes, those people probably want to kill me, and it's quite possible I don't want to kill them, but it's a sanctioned act. And, if you enjoy doing it, there's probably something wrong with you.
If I go down the street and beat a bum to death for fun, that is highly socially unacceptable. It served no purpose, was malicious, and is a bad, bad, thing--a clear sign of someone in need of help.
So, if my job is to raise and slaughter chickens for food, that is socially acceptable. I probably don't enjoy doing it, but there is a purpose--they provide food, necessary or not. It may not be a terribly mentally healthy thing to do, but it's natural and part of society.
If I go down the street and beat my neighbor's pet chicken (hey, I know people with pet chickens) to death because it's fun, there's something wrong with me. The life of the chicken itself may not have more weight as a moral absolute, but the purpose of the killing is significantly different, as is the motivation that caused me to do it.
So, basically, anybody who place kicks an ancient 2-pound dog that was by all accounts very friendly toward people has something seriously wrong with them, and I'd be more worried about that guy than a car thief.
I tell you, if that had been my dog it'd have taken more willpower than I probably have to just hold him until police arrived. I can imagine a good hard placekick to a certain region that'd be appropriate to the situation, and hopefully prevent any sadistic offspring, too.
Makosuke said:
Sometimes its "fun" to kill. Like when you kill turtles that are infesting a pond. These would pretty much kill all of the fish in the pond, and after the fish are dead, you have rotting and dying turtles.
Or, when you kill ground squirrels in grazing areas for cattle. The "fun" way is to use rifles. The "bad" way is to use poison that poisons the ground squirrels which poisons the hawk that eats it, which poisons the coyote that eats it... etc. Too many ground squirrels, and their ground tunnels leads to flooding in these grazing areas, and broken legs for the 1200lb cows that walk around eating grass and pooping cow pies.
Or, when you kill coyotes as part of a predation control program. Coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, if the population is left unchecked, can mean the difference between a profitable sheep/cattle ranching operation and one that has to lay people off or go out of business.
So, I think the criteria should not be if its fun or not, but if there is a 'good thing' that happens if the killing is done. Killing Nazis/Hitler supporters might be fun (or not), but I think there is a 'good thing' that happens when it was done.
Guys,
I have to say - be really careful with your pets
These days, people stop at nothing. In this country, there have been a spate of cruelty-to-animal incidents, and they make me sick to my stomach.
Recently, a cat was taken from a house, had its 4 paws cut off and was hung. It's not clear whether the cat was dead before its paws were removed.
Also very recently, 2 rabbits were removed from hutches. They belonged to a mentally ill child. The rabbits were decapitated and put in a car, which was set on fire. Why'd they do it? It's believed it's because the family moved in to the area from out of town.
Two dogs were beaten to death against electricity boxes, a while back.
I'm just telling you all to be so, so careful with your pets. No matter if they're in your house; here, many incidents have involved the pets being removed from the house during a break-in - in some cases, nothing else was even stolen. Just the pet, which was later killed.
Please, please, watch out.
Additionally - comprehensive research has strongly hinted at signs that those who are cruel to animals have a greater inclination to commit acts of human cruelty later in life. Now, I won't argue this point - take from it what you will. Personally, I can see weight in it. The profiles of killers often - not always - include previous incidents of animal cruelty.
As for penalties; it's black and white, in my opinion. The people involved took a life - the life of a tame, family pet. I know in my household, our golden retriever is as much a part of the family as anyone else. In my opinion - to get less than life for the purposeful taking of a life, in such a cruel manner, showing no apparent remorse immediately after the event, warrents life in prison. Would you be happy living next door to those people, if you had a pet?
andy
I have to say - be really careful with your pets
These days, people stop at nothing. In this country, there have been a spate of cruelty-to-animal incidents, and they make me sick to my stomach.
Recently, a cat was taken from a house, had its 4 paws cut off and was hung. It's not clear whether the cat was dead before its paws were removed.
Also very recently, 2 rabbits were removed from hutches. They belonged to a mentally ill child. The rabbits were decapitated and put in a car, which was set on fire. Why'd they do it? It's believed it's because the family moved in to the area from out of town.
Two dogs were beaten to death against electricity boxes, a while back.
I'm just telling you all to be so, so careful with your pets. No matter if they're in your house; here, many incidents have involved the pets being removed from the house during a break-in - in some cases, nothing else was even stolen. Just the pet, which was later killed.
Please, please, watch out.
Additionally - comprehensive research has strongly hinted at signs that those who are cruel to animals have a greater inclination to commit acts of human cruelty later in life. Now, I won't argue this point - take from it what you will. Personally, I can see weight in it. The profiles of killers often - not always - include previous incidents of animal cruelty.
As for penalties; it's black and white, in my opinion. The people involved took a life - the life of a tame, family pet. I know in my household, our golden retriever is as much a part of the family as anyone else. In my opinion - to get less than life for the purposeful taking of a life, in such a cruel manner, showing no apparent remorse immediately after the event, warrents life in prison. Would you be happy living next door to those people, if you had a pet?
andy
_pb_boi said:
Not always. Its good to create a profile with, but not good to convict a person with.
I burned ants with a magnifying glass when I was young. I ended up okay. Hmm... maybe thats why I'm so good at squashing computer bugs.
This is one of my hardest subjects to form a solid opinion on, i am totally divided and hypocritical on this. I think harming animals for the sake of fun (population and ecology control still shouldn't really be fun), particularly pets, is awful. But, the main reason i think that is because i think the animals are cute, and i don't want them to suffer. Animals that i don't think are cute, like cows and pigs, i have no problem eating. It's entirely based on a perception that I can't seem to change... the "cuteness" factor.
we can cover all the obvious, like, food animals are treated humanely. But they're not. My dad worked on a cattle farm for the first 14 years of my life, and i saw it firsthand-- They endure temperatures *way* outside of their natural habitat, their food is not diverse like it would be naturally (in a lot of places, cows simply eat sick cow parts). Then in the final few weeks of their lives, they're separated from the herd, moved through disgusting feedlots (ever seen **** get 2 feet deep? i have) and electrically tortured, all the while incapable of moving freely, before being killed in very stressful circumstances by a metal spike driven through the skull. This sort of existence, even for an animal, is unfathomable to many of us. Yet i still would rate a rare steak in my top 5 greatest things list, and i don't think i'd have any luck going vegan (actually the only animal product i intentionally eat is meat, no dairy, so i'm closer than some). But i do support PETA's initiatives to prevent food animal suffering, including their boycott of KFC for the conditions the chickens were grown in. Paradoxically, i support PETA's idea that no animals should be kept as pets, yet i keep pets of my own... tho i justify that by saying, pygmie albino african hedgehogs wouldn't survive in nature at all.
Does all of the above mean i can't condemn animal cruelty? I don't think so-- if hypocrisy was shunned in our country, it would be a much different place. If anyone hurt one of my hedgies (i only have one now, but my dearly-departed other three are still in my mind) i'd probably seriously harm them before coming to my senses. They're my babies, they've trusted me since they were pups, and i'll gladly protect them. chickens and cows? i still think they should be kept and slaughtered as humanely as possible, but i believe it's in the natural order of things for humans to eat them.
paul
we can cover all the obvious, like, food animals are treated humanely. But they're not. My dad worked on a cattle farm for the first 14 years of my life, and i saw it firsthand-- They endure temperatures *way* outside of their natural habitat, their food is not diverse like it would be naturally (in a lot of places, cows simply eat sick cow parts). Then in the final few weeks of their lives, they're separated from the herd, moved through disgusting feedlots (ever seen **** get 2 feet deep? i have) and electrically tortured, all the while incapable of moving freely, before being killed in very stressful circumstances by a metal spike driven through the skull. This sort of existence, even for an animal, is unfathomable to many of us. Yet i still would rate a rare steak in my top 5 greatest things list, and i don't think i'd have any luck going vegan (actually the only animal product i intentionally eat is meat, no dairy, so i'm closer than some). But i do support PETA's initiatives to prevent food animal suffering, including their boycott of KFC for the conditions the chickens were grown in. Paradoxically, i support PETA's idea that no animals should be kept as pets, yet i keep pets of my own... tho i justify that by saying, pygmie albino african hedgehogs wouldn't survive in nature at all.
Does all of the above mean i can't condemn animal cruelty? I don't think so-- if hypocrisy was shunned in our country, it would be a much different place. If anyone hurt one of my hedgies (i only have one now, but my dearly-departed other three are still in my mind) i'd probably seriously harm them before coming to my senses. They're my babies, they've trusted me since they were pups, and i'll gladly protect them. chickens and cows? i still think they should be kept and slaughtered as humanely as possible, but i believe it's in the natural order of things for humans to eat them.
paul
Frohickey said:
Silly me, but I don't think that the crime should be vandalism at all. Heck, I don't even think pets should be considered "property" at all, but maybe as living things that aren't given the same value of humans. So if someone were to, oh, kick a dog like an (American) football punter, he should go to jail for 4 years if the appropriate penalty for doing that to a human is 8 years (arbitrary value).
Someone who does this isn't just damaging property. They're not just throwing eggs at a house window. He's actually kicking the crap out of a living thing. Imagine getting kicked like that in the face or something.
As the owner of 2 dogs, I'd like to kick this guy in the nuts until they come off and get stuck to the bottom of my shoe. Then I'd step on them.
Dippo said:I say just lock him up, and throw away the key!
Why waste the space with him. I say load up a 12 gauge and blow a couple holes through him.
I guess it seems more shocking because this dog was completely defenseless.
If they'd kicked an Alsatian to death, it would have been bad, but you would have thought the Alsatian could stand-up for itself.
When someone murders someone else, you expect there was a struggle. It's on more even terms.
But a 2/175 difference isn't exactly playing fair isit?
He looks like one of those guys who tries to look hard but can't ever pull it off, so has to do things like this. Idiot.
AppleMatt
edit: Idea for punishment. At the next big NFL game get all the players to run up and kick him as hard as they possibly can, half of America will be watching and know what he did, and he'll know what it feels like to receive a powerful kick of people twice your size
If they'd kicked an Alsatian to death, it would have been bad, but you would have thought the Alsatian could stand-up for itself.
When someone murders someone else, you expect there was a struggle. It's on more even terms.
But a 2/175 difference isn't exactly playing fair isit?
He looks like one of those guys who tries to look hard but can't ever pull it off, so has to do things like this. Idiot.
AppleMatt
edit: Idea for punishment. At the next big NFL game get all the players to run up and kick him as hard as they possibly can, half of America will be watching and know what he did, and he'll know what it feels like to receive a powerful kick of people twice your size
I was watching a programme about K9 unit Alsations a while back, and those dogs are so brave. And a lot of it IS bravery - they're certainly not daft, a lot of their training is aided by instinct. It actually made me feel all tingly - seeing those dogs risk their lives against armed suspects, wrestling them to the ground - without ripping the suspects arm off, which they could so easily do with one hard bite. Amazing.
This was a tiny, tiny dog - completely defenceless, a loved family pet.
I totally understand the arguement that we're all hypocritical - many of us eat chickens, but condemn this. However, we don't purposely kill chickens in the most inhumane way possible - if it's inhumane, it's because there often is no other viably profitable way, as clinical as that may sound. I certainly don't know of farmers place-kicking their chickens before running off.
Sometimes, I think it does me good to completely forget about reasoning - and just go with feelings. This just sucks.
It reminds me of the groups of steeks / mokes / neds / garys that walk about in groups on the street looking only for a fight to make their night. They will only approach you if they vastly outnumber you, or know you won't fight back. This dog was outnumbered, and couldn't fight back.
andy
paulwhannel said:
I am with you on this. While I am against unnessary cruelty to animals,particularly harmless pets some of the opinions here are over the top. If you eat meat beleive me you would be disgusted if you saw what goes on in the living conditions of some of these animals particularly Battery chickens. Out of sight out of mind I guess.
I have hoofed (kicked) a dog through the air that was trying to defend the roadside in front of its owners house and gave me scratches around my ankle to remember it and seen the results of dogs that play at hunting sheep. Think sheep guts hanging out and sheep so frightened and exhausted they ran till they died as to why I would have killed those dogs if I had the chance. The ranger got them in the end but encroaching suburbia and farms never really mix. As for the cute rabbits that if left to breed will eat paddocks barren and possums that eat all the new growth when you are trying to reforest to stop erosion. Sorry they have to go particularly as neither is native to my country.
But for all that anyone who kills a harmless pet in good health is sick and should be punished. Hmm just the posting of this reminds me of how contradictory I am on this ie 1 summer visiting friends feeding matty the half tame wild piglet the next summer really enjoying a barbeque with venison and pork sausages and beleive me they were superb!