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20 inch iMac Released
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Another reason the iMac isn't geared to gamers...>
The internal cards aren't exactly user replacable.
The internal cards aren't exactly user replacable.
The 20" iMac would have been much more enticing if the update offered something else (e.g. 512MB built-in RAM) beyond the larger display.
A larger display and at least 1GB RAM are what I need most right now.
I'll be waiting another month or two to see if there's any iMac price drop or other "interesting" product announcements.
Power consumption is another issue why I'm considering an iMac over a G5. Anyone know the maximum continuous power of G5's in watts? The 17"/19" iMac are 160/190W. The G5 maximum current is 6.5/7.5 for low/high voltage range.
Wow. Such a lively debate over what is clearly designed to boost the profit margin on a line that is sure to be under a lot of trees this year.
The gaming argument is absurd in and of itself. As much as I love Macs, if I were a hardcore "gamer," I wouldn't be buying them. Let's face it, Apple is not a major player in the gaming scene, and it has never shown a serious interest in courting that market. Why should it? Most games come out only for the PC, or ridiculously late for the Mac.
And as far as the spec debate, Apple is courting Mom and Dad. If they are buying an iMac for their kid at the Apple Store, they're looking at the breathtaking screen, not the spec sheet. The iMac line has always offered high style at the expense of performance and expandability. The eye-popping looks of the iMac are the secret to its success, especially in the consumer market. And that goes double during the holiday season - the time of year when most people who know nothing about computers rush out to buy one.
Most importantly, though, the iMac line is a little old. They have to make a dramatic change to the LOOK of the machine to make it into those all-important "hot gift" lists that clutter every publication this time of year. Bumping up the video card does not get a picture in the paper.
The gaming argument is absurd in and of itself. As much as I love Macs, if I were a hardcore "gamer," I wouldn't be buying them. Let's face it, Apple is not a major player in the gaming scene, and it has never shown a serious interest in courting that market. Why should it? Most games come out only for the PC, or ridiculously late for the Mac.
And as far as the spec debate, Apple is courting Mom and Dad. If they are buying an iMac for their kid at the Apple Store, they're looking at the breathtaking screen, not the spec sheet. The iMac line has always offered high style at the expense of performance and expandability. The eye-popping looks of the iMac are the secret to its success, especially in the consumer market. And that goes double during the holiday season - the time of year when most people who know nothing about computers rush out to buy one.
Most importantly, though, the iMac line is a little old. They have to make a dramatic change to the LOOK of the machine to make it into those all-important "hot gift" lists that clutter every publication this time of year. Bumping up the video card does not get a picture in the paper.
Here's the thing. Apple has created HUGE momentum in the younger market (college students and the like.) So many people I know at school either did like I did and Worked in High school to save to buy their first computer for college. I worked forty hours a week and bought an iBook (seems like so long ago, it's a 500MHZ G3 
) Most college students can't afford that. Apple needs to capitalize on the momentum they've created with iPod and iTunes for Windows, because it won't last forever, others will catch up. Almost everyone I know plans on buying a new computer upon graduation, so many students WANT macs, but can't afford even the bottom of the line iMac right out of college (and who really wants an eMac?) Not that the eMac is a bad machine, it's just not a desirable machine. The 20" iMac is a bad move because it's a move in the WRONG direction. Apple has go to find a way to bring a relatively fashionable macintosh to the masses. It doesn't have to run FCP4 or render HD video in seconds, but if they don't have an affordable, fashionable mac, folks are gonna have to settle for the PCs and then all they're gonna sell are iPods.
) Most college students can't afford that. Apple needs to capitalize on the momentum they've created with iPod and iTunes for Windows, because it won't last forever, others will catch up. Almost everyone I know plans on buying a new computer upon graduation, so many students WANT macs, but can't afford even the bottom of the line iMac right out of college (and who really wants an eMac?) Not that the eMac is a bad machine, it's just not a desirable machine. The 20" iMac is a bad move because it's a move in the WRONG direction. Apple has go to find a way to bring a relatively fashionable macintosh to the masses. It doesn't have to run FCP4 or render HD video in seconds, but if they don't have an affordable, fashionable mac, folks are gonna have to settle for the PCs and then all they're gonna sell are iPods.Totally agree. Why it should be such a problem to release cheaper headless box under 1k for rest of us(im in Aussie land too). I mean, we even have to pay more for Apple products than people pay in US. It is total rubbish because Apple doesn't even use prop. hardware like it once used to. AGP,PCI,GPU's are the same like in PC world. CPU is different but hey don't try to tell us that lingering G4 is worth it's price tag. It is obvious that this iMac release, and pretty much everything else in consumer segment is just showeling down unsold crappy Motorola G4 CPU's (that nobody really should want) at poor consumer expense. They could have at least droped iMac prices way down to sell those CPU's. Instead they decide to attach 20" screen worth thousand US$ to crappy CPU, and you can't even reuse it's screen once(soon) your expensive iMac is obsolete.
Cheers
Kiddie's go Home and do your Homework
Lots of kiddies on the board today.
Since you guy's aren't running Panther, you don't know what you're talking about.
The G4, with Panther, is no longer a slow machine. Your criticism is old, showing, you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm running on a 550 Powerbook, with 512 meg of ram. I don't need any more performance for anything, except games.
But, I don't have the time for games, nice to be a kid.
The iMac's at 1.25 Ghz will be at least twice as fast as my machine. So, I can't help but think these machines would be very fast.
Lots of kiddies on the board today.
Since you guy's aren't running Panther, you don't know what you're talking about.
The G4, with Panther, is no longer a slow machine. Your criticism is old, showing, you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm running on a 550 Powerbook, with 512 meg of ram. I don't need any more performance for anything, except games.
But, I don't have the time for games, nice to be a kid.
The iMac's at 1.25 Ghz will be at least twice as fast as my machine. So, I can't help but think these machines would be very fast.
You're right.. it's all about the bottom line. If I were a parent of someone under 12, I'd buy an eMac... Like my brother-in-law did for his 5 kids. If I were buying for someone over 12, I'd hold off and give them an IOU certificate for a Mac... They'll get over not having the surprise.
I disagree. Yes, hardcore gamers aren't going to buy Macs ever. But their numbers are small compared to casual gamers. I mainly use my Macs for development, but occasionally fire up Jedi Knight II or Max Payne. It's not at all unreasonable to expect that modern games will run decently on high-end Macs. They don't have to match the performance of the water-cooled nuclear-powered Alienware rigs, but they should be usable. If not, a measurable number of customers *will* be lost. I would already have ordered a dual 1.8 G5, except that it's crippled by the GeforceFX. (Yes, you can upgrade at the Apple Store for $50, but if I order there I get hit with 8% sales tax on the whole thing).
Now, this may be irrelevant in the specific case of the 20" iMac. Probably its limiting factor for most games will be the CPU rather than the graphics chip. But it would be foolish for Apple to entirely ignore game performance.
Re: Kiddie's go Home and do your Homework
I would consider my self a kiddie, I'm in Junior High and have my own 17inch 800Mhz imac, while my parents use some old crap pc. Well anyway I had to work hard to get what I have, and I am happy with it. And to add to what you said about panther, it makes the G4 unbelievably faster. My boot time was cut in half and apps load like 3 times faster than they used to. The G4 is a great consumer machine, with panther, and I think is will stick around for a while.
I probably won't buy a new computer with a G4. Infact I probably won't buy a new computer until I graduate and then I'm gonna get some Kick a** G5 or possibly G6 powerbook!!1
I would consider my self a kiddie, I'm in Junior High and have my own 17inch 800Mhz imac, while my parents use some old crap pc. Well anyway I had to work hard to get what I have, and I am happy with it. And to add to what you said about panther, it makes the G4 unbelievably faster. My boot time was cut in half and apps load like 3 times faster than they used to. The G4 is a great consumer machine, with panther, and I think is will stick around for a while.
I probably won't buy a new computer with a G4. Infact I probably won't buy a new computer until I graduate and then I'm gonna get some Kick a** G5 or possibly G6 powerbook!!1
I would have to agree with the people that say for the price they should have gave you more with the 20" iMac. An iMac is a computer I would be happy with and I plan to buy a new desktop and laptop the day I get home from Iraq and have a lot of $$$ saved up. I bigger 120GB HD should be standard at that price. 512MB of RAM should be too, I don't know a lot about video cards, but it should be a step up from the 17". Last, the G4 is fine for a computer like the iMac, but there is no reason why it should still be using the 7455@1.25Ghz, when the 7447/7457 w/ 512K L2 with .13 fab is available. Considering the iMac has better cooling capacity then a Powerbook, a 7447/7457 would be able to clock much better then the current old school G4.
I am not an expert at this, but for that price it should include all of that and at least a 1.42 Ghz G4. I know they might be saving what speed bumps are left for future models, but in a desktop combination the new G4 is not even close to maxed out. The 7455 maxes at 1.42 so I am guessing if cooling is decent, the new G4 could be running 1.8 to 2.0 Ghz.
I am not an expert at this, but for that price it should include all of that and at least a 1.42 Ghz G4. I know they might be saving what speed bumps are left for future models, but in a desktop combination the new G4 is not even close to maxed out. The 7455 maxes at 1.42 so I am guessing if cooling is decent, the new G4 could be running 1.8 to 2.0 Ghz.
I don't regret anything I have ever done since that would keep me bogged down, always second guessing what I have done.
All I'm saying is that if I could have bought 2 G4's and a MoBo, and peicied the rest together my self I would have. I am very happy with the preformace of my Athlon based system that I bought in Feb 2001. I play nolf 1 until the graphics card overheats (GeForce 2 overclocked from 175Mhz-230Mhz, Edit video using Vegas and After FX, Encode Div-x, watch DVD's, and play dreamcast though a TV card I bought last december. I dumped an extra 512 stick of Ram in it at the same time I bought the TV card and it works a treat. Though I intend to upgrade before Christmas.
Why can't they just make the iMac a PowerMac with an attached display.
If people wanted a cheap mac they are just going to buy an eMac.
If people wanted a cheap mac they are just going to buy an eMac.
Because people want a flexable machines that are expandable, and one where they can keep the screen so they don't have to buy a new one when they buy a new computer.
Re: Another reason the iMac isn't geared to gamers...>
Yes, you're correct - the iMac's cards aren't replaceable. As you say, this is another reason the iMac isn't geared to gamers, which is what I've been saying all along. Were you just trying to paraphrase my posts, or.....?
Yes, you're correct - the iMac's cards aren't replaceable. As you say, this is another reason the iMac isn't geared to gamers, which is what I've been saying all along. Were you just trying to paraphrase my posts, or.....?
Originally posted by Macco
Ooh yes, and make it pocket-sized, and powered by geothermal energy, and have it levitate a few inches above your desk, and the case changes color depending on what mood you're in, and 4... no wait, 8 processors! Oh, and sell it for $499.
'Don't hurt me' had a good point. I like his thinking.
Re: Kiddie's go Home and do your Homework
Thank you MikeAtari, I couldn't agree with you more! I sometimes feel like I might as well be talking to the wall...
Thank you MikeAtari, I couldn't agree with you more! I sometimes feel like I might as well be talking to the wall...
To reiterate, iMacs are NOT geared toward gamers. Hell, computers weren't supposed to be game machines in the first place! It's personal preference what you do with your computer, and the iMac shows that it wasn't built to play the latest, most cutting edge games. You'll be able to play some current games, but that's where the road ends. Consumers still deserve a simple "all-in-one" for a lesser price then a PowerMac.
The question is, what is an iMac? It WAS the Internet Mac. It has a built in display. It has everything in one simple casing. That is what an iMac is. Don't give me crap about an " upgradable headless iMac." Call it a Cube or low-end PowerMac already!
I got my 17-inch FP iMac last summer to use OS X and get away from the horrors on my Bondi Blue iMac. Sure, I'm a pretty avid gamer and the iMac lasted me about six months gaming-wise, without any regrets. I would've gotten a PowerMac if my family had the cash, but what was I going to mainly do with my computer? Surf the web, do homework, and everything else not graphics intensive. A 800 MHz G4 is still plenty of power for day to day use.
The question is, what is an iMac? It WAS the Internet Mac. It has a built in display. It has everything in one simple casing. That is what an iMac is. Don't give me crap about an " upgradable headless iMac." Call it a Cube or low-end PowerMac already!
I got my 17-inch FP iMac last summer to use OS X and get away from the horrors on my Bondi Blue iMac. Sure, I'm a pretty avid gamer and the iMac lasted me about six months gaming-wise, without any regrets. I would've gotten a PowerMac if my family had the cash, but what was I going to mainly do with my computer? Surf the web, do homework, and everything else not graphics intensive. A 800 MHz G4 is still plenty of power for day to day use.
Well, I'll jump into this....
I was disappointed that the 20" iMac was basicly a 17" iMac. Very strange.
The pricing is bad too. It's been some time (if ever) we've had a >$2000 iMac.
I agree with many that a low end Powermac/Headless iMac/New Cube/Whatever has a market. From what I've seen/heard the G4 Towers are selling decently. (Both new and refurbs/refresh) I think there's a market.
I really don't understand why Apple has NO consumer headless mac! It just seems strange.
I was disappointed that the 20" iMac was basicly a 17" iMac. Very strange.
The pricing is bad too. It's been some time (if ever) we've had a >$2000 iMac.
I agree with many that a low end Powermac/Headless iMac/New Cube/Whatever has a market. From what I've seen/heard the G4 Towers are selling decently. (Both new and refurbs/refresh) I think there's a market.
I really don't understand why Apple has NO consumer headless mac! It just seems strange.
Wow, so many armchair CEOs. So many people here think Apple should make a cheap, headless box. That way we could buy a barebones box, find the cheapest RAM, find the cheapest disk, the cheapest video cards, etc., and sell it for under $1000.
And why do we want that? Because it's cheap! But consider from Apple's point of view: there's no money to be made in such a box. Why should Apple steer their customers to a box with razor thin margins, when they make a healthy margin off of the iMacs? Is that what we really want? Apple to start losing money again?
Apple cannot be all things to all people. They make well packaged computing solutions. They are not in the rock-bottom do-it-yourself market - there's no money in it when you have to develop the OS and promote and run sales channels by yourself..
And why do we want that? Because it's cheap! But consider from Apple's point of view: there's no money to be made in such a box. Why should Apple steer their customers to a box with razor thin margins, when they make a healthy margin off of the iMacs? Is that what we really want? Apple to start losing money again?
Apple cannot be all things to all people. They make well packaged computing solutions. They are not in the rock-bottom do-it-yourself market - there's no money in it when you have to develop the OS and promote and run sales channels by yourself..