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2009 Mac pro may be a kick-arse gaming machine
- Thread starter Abidubi
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I still haven't quite decided to keep the SP board or go with a DP model yet, and it's getting awfully hard not to break out the wire, iron, and shrink tubing.I think everyone does that.
I remember finishing my current build, and I was about to boot it up and it hit me: I HAVE TO MAKE THIS PERFECT.
Anyway I made a decision, I'm going with a really cheap 08 model which I can probably break even next year after Christmas and give myself a brand new build as a gift when the 300 series, 5000 series, and Intel's larabee show up along with the i7 shrink.
I've done a decent job without hacking the wiring to custom, but I won't ever be totally happy until I do. I just can't leave well enough alone.
I hadn't seen that one yet.
Beats this one in appearance, but it may have the upper hand cooling wise.
The type of games you like and the argument between console and PC is simple: you get what you like. Personally I like gaming on the PC more than consoles, but I own both.
Just wanted to add about these facts:
1. Most manufacturers for PC components give great warranties. EVGA for example has two of my video cards under lifetime warranty. My XFX card even allows for the transfer of the lifetime warranty. They also don't void your warranty for modifications of the rest of the computer. Oh, and you don't have to ship everything to get things fixed to keep your warranty.
2. The case might cost $300 or so aftermarket. Remarkably similar to the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112170.
Personally, I use a CM Stacker 830 for maximum cooling purposes. Quitest? You haven't seen how quiet PC's can get. There's an entire group of PC enthusiasts dedicated to making the quietest PC's available: http://www.silentpcreview.com/
Hint: It's not the company, it's up to what parts you want to put in there.
Cant argue with OS X, though Hackintoshes are becoming more prevalent. Also, resale wise, sure - its mostly because Apple takes forever to come out with new hardware, whereas new PC hardware comes out every 3 months and people want the latest and greatest. Support wise, again, it's up to you on what components you choose.
When it all comes down to it, for $1000 less, you probably could build a PC with better components, quieter, and with the case of your choosing. But its up to you if you believe OS X is the difference maker
Just wanted to add about these facts:
1. Most manufacturers for PC components give great warranties. EVGA for example has two of my video cards under lifetime warranty. My XFX card even allows for the transfer of the lifetime warranty. They also don't void your warranty for modifications of the rest of the computer. Oh, and you don't have to ship everything to get things fixed to keep your warranty.
2. The case might cost $300 or so aftermarket. Remarkably similar to the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112170.
Personally, I use a CM Stacker 830 for maximum cooling purposes. Quitest? You haven't seen how quiet PC's can get. There's an entire group of PC enthusiasts dedicated to making the quietest PC's available: http://www.silentpcreview.com/
Hint: It's not the company, it's up to what parts you want to put in there.
Cant argue with OS X, though Hackintoshes are becoming more prevalent. Also, resale wise, sure - its mostly because Apple takes forever to come out with new hardware, whereas new PC hardware comes out every 3 months and people want the latest and greatest. Support wise, again, it's up to you on what components you choose.
When it all comes down to it, for $1000 less, you probably could build a PC with better components, quieter, and with the case of your choosing. But its up to you if you believe OS X is the difference maker
Link please. The new Mac Pro is worth 70% of it's asking price, and I'm torn between a 2008 brand new Mac Pro for less than $2000 or a new build entirely. Either way it's going to be faster than my G4
I personally think it's not overpriced given what it has under the hood. The price will be undoubtedly extremely competitive with (more reliable, better supported and more flexible) dual-Nehalem offerings from other makers.
It's just that most enthusiast and power home user's needs are just not met with this machine, despite the fact that in terms of it's faux-workstation engineering makes it best in a home environment - although for Apple, since it can ill afford to split product exposure / SKU's on this class of machine, it makes sense to go with a layout that satisfies it's core pro clientele - content creators / BS merchants.
And it'll obviously result in the repeat of the comedy 'what can I stick in here with extreme effort that I can put in any decent PC in a matter of minutes, and crow about it' routine again throughout the rest of the year.
I have the silver version of the Lian Li you linked. But I got it for less than $300 shipped.
(Nov. '08 IIRC).I'll have to look for the review. Searched the site you linked, but it didn't turn up.
Found a review of a cooler worth looking at though. Hardware support, even for DIY builds, certainly isn't bad these days. Glad you brought that up.
DIY's primary cost for me is time, as I have to do my own diagnostics/support/repair... But building a Hack isn't so bad. Vanilla Kernel + a retail copy of OS X, and you're set. The USB dongle method is interesting to say the least, but boards supported are rather limited.
Well to make a QUIET gaming pc you have to pay for it.
My original plan for a gaming pc was $800, but here and there, plus large heat sinks, low rpm fans, sound proofing, etc puts the cost to close to $2000, at refurb MacPro category. If time is accounted in the cost then it is more expensive than a Mac Pro.
Yes exactly.
My original plan for a gaming pc was $800, but here and there, plus large heat sinks, low rpm fans, sound proofing, etc puts the cost to close to $2000, at refurb MacPro category. If time is accounted in the cost then it is more expensive than a Mac Pro.
Yes exactly.
Why do you think that? I agree that it will be price competitive, but HP and Dell offer better warranties and more upgrades, making them better buys. Perhaps you have a different view of this refresh that hasn't been thought of on these forums, and I'd like to hear them. However, at face value it seems as if they've went from a reasonably priced computer to a not so reasonably priced one. Most of my ire is directed at the $2500 model, as my tasks (Headshotting people) are better served by it, but I don't think the dual quad is much better value wise.
Hey! Check this out. Almost the same setup mac pro that i'll be getting is cheaper than alienware.
http://www.alienware.com/customize/alx-x58-desktop.aspx?SysCode=PC-ALX-X58&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT
Of course it has much better options for graphics and faster memory, but it's pretty close. I'm actually surprised.
Equip the mac pro with a 1TB drive, the best quad core and the 4870 to make the comparison.
http://www.alienware.com/customize/alx-x58-desktop.aspx?SysCode=PC-ALX-X58&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT
Of course it has much better options for graphics and faster memory, but it's pretty close. I'm actually surprised.
Equip the mac pro with a 1TB drive, the best quad core and the 4870 to make the comparison.
Are you using that nifty thought controlled mouse right now that I saw a video of a while back?
You pay for the dual quad capability whether you go Apple or anyone else. Keeping one of those empty is your choice - and yes, it is a waste of money if that's the way it's going to remain.
And also yes, ultimately Dell and HP are better value and superior solutions for business who aren't stuck to OS X solutions for the reasons I put down. As I said, I was referring purely to what's under the hood in terms of the processors you get, etc. The core hardware prices will likely be the same situation as before - both Dells and HP's (with the standard 3-year next-business-day onsite warranty) and Lenovo if they refresh their range will be likely slightly higher in price to a comparable-on-paper Pro.
The low end model only has one socket and an 8GB memory cap. You're NOT paying for the dual quad. On the high end model, if the standard processors are cheaper than the 08 model, why raise the price? It seems like you haven't taken much of a look at the new model.
Apple raised the price of it's DQ solution by $500, and each chip is 2.26ghz and costs a lot less than the previous generation 2.8. Nehalem or not, that speed is going to have a tough time beating the 2.8DQ in anything but memory intensive apps. Why pay $500 more for nearly the same performance - in only some areas?
A 4870 in a Mac doesn't even make sense to me...that thing is so damn loud. Also, a 512mb 4870 is average at best...now if you could put a GTX 295 with some DDR3 1600 in a Mac, Boom Shock a lock a
Let's not exaggerate, shall we? If you spent $1200 more to get a QUIET PC that wasn't water cooled, then you got screwed, plain and simple. If you're worried about sound proofing, get an Antec P18x series - they come naturally insulated. Or a Cooler Master Cosmos S. Plenty of other caes come with natural insulation.
In fact, if you're getting any case beyond a budget case (as in $100 or more MSRP, but things are always on deals these days) - you'll fall into one of two categories. Maximum air cooling, noise be damned - like the Antec 900 or CM Stacker 830. Or quiet - like the Antec P18x series or Cosmos S. And if you're concerned about noise, you'd be going with a quiet one anyways.
Start with fans, you can go to Petra's Tech shop for Yate Loon 120mm low speed fans (some of the quietest around) for about $4 a piece. Get a fan controller for $20 to control it to your liking (or just volt mod em with a pair of scissors and pliers).
Then get an aftermarket cooler for your video card (assuming it's reference, as most non-reference video cards come with quiet solutions) which run for at most $60-70. An aftermarket cooler for your CPU as well will cost at most $75 (and will cool your CPU down an incredible amount as well).
All that will AT MOST cost you $300, and that's assuming you're changing everything out. Really the only thing you lose is time, and for some that' s a legit issue, and for others it's just something to do during the day on a weekend when noting else is going on. Personally, I'm a big DIYer when it comes to hardware (be it cars, computers, whatever) so it's easy to see why I build my own gaming machines.
No, I guess I didn't take a look at the lower end - I jut assumed. My bad. Well in that case it sucks quite a bit.
I'm kind of in the same situation here... and I could use some advice.
My old windows 'gaming' pc is broken... I have absolutely no idea what's wrong with it... and its OLD (2003) so I need/want a new desktop pc.
For my € 2500 (MacPro + 24" monitor + AppleCare) I want something that can run games on high-settings smoothly...
Problem is... I want to develop for iPhone aswell so i pretty much need an intel-based, Leopard-running mac don't I? Otherwise I would just go with a windows pc.
I've been looking at the Mac Pro for a while now...
I still have a lot of doubts about how good it is at running games (talking about things like TeamFortress 2 and Call of Duty 4 on High-settings).
It's not designed to be a gaming machine... and only to use it for iPhone development is total overkill... and still... I think I'm trying to hit 2 birds with one stone here
It seems like a better deal than to buy a new gaming pc for 1500 and a cheap iMac or MacMini for iPhone development (+ then I would need 2 monitors
).And Hackintosh is not an optin...
What would you recommend?
1. Mac Pro
2. PC + iMac/Mini
Mac Pro... it's a much more elegant solution than having two computers. A Quad 2.66 tricked out with a 4870 or the upcoming GTX285 would be ideal in your situation.
Those games run like they were from 2001. Max settings and I can't tell if the FPS ever drops.
i absolutely agree, you don't need Xeon class processors for gaming, nor is any game going to be able to take advantage of the multi threading from 4-8 cores
forget about it
however, if you buy a mac pro for a pro level workstation and happen to take some breaks every once in awhile to play some games, well, that's acceptable
I'm kind of in the same situation here... and I could use some advice.
My old windows 'gaming' pc is broken... I have absolutely no idea what's wrong with it... and its OLD (2003) so I need/want a new desktop pc.
For my 2500 (MacPro + 24" monitor + AppleCare) I want something that can run games on high-settings smoothly...
Problem is... I want to develop for iPhone aswell so i pretty much need an intel-based, Leopard-running mac don't I? Otherwise I would just go with a windows pc.
I've been looking at the Mac Pro for a while now...
I still have a lot of doubts about how good it is at running games (talking about things like TeamFortress 2 and Call of Duty 4 on High-settings).
It's not designed to be a gaming machine... and only to use it for iPhone development is total overkill... and still... I think I'm trying to hit 2 birds with one stone here
It seems like a better deal than to buy a new gaming pc for 1500 and a cheap iMac or MacMini for iPhone development (+ then I would need 2 monitors
And Hackintosh is not an optin...
What would you recommend?
1. Mac Pro
2. PC + iMac/Mini
I'd recommend a Mac Pro. I originally had a Windows gaming computer. Then I got a cheap old log board from an old eMac for £50. I hacked it up with an old ATX power supply and ended up using it far more than the Windows computer - even though the headless emac was just a bare board with some unsightly wires coming out of it. I then replaced that with an Intel Mac Mini when that came out. I hardly ever booted up the Windows computer any more. It was so much noisier that I'd given up having both running at the same time. What's the point in spending all that money on a gaming computer when you're not going to be using it most of the time?
In the end I sold the Mac Mini, sold the parts of the Windows machine and bought a Mac Pro when they were released. I haven't looked back since.
Rebooting into Windows for gaming really isn't that much of a hassle. The Mac Pro can also be a formidable gaming machine too although as others have said this certainly should not be a deciding factor. Your circumstances sound similar to mine, you want a powerful Apple computer to do your work and development on yet you'd also like the ability to play games well. After all, you can put two 4870s in there and crossfire them in Windows.
Yeah, I have troubles with those numbers as well. My 7300 on a 1.1 Mac Pro 2.66 gets 65 FPS in my tests. The 2600 is supposed to be much faster than the 7300. So even if it's only 80 FPS that means that they're saying the 4870 gets 400 FPS. Umm, yeah, riiiight.
Fast FPS in a game like Quake4 needs a fast-ish CPU (and memory!) to feed the card; so it IS a balance - but most of it is on the video card for sure. It's hard to place a percentage on it because the CPU (and RAM) is either fast enough or it's not. So it's kind of a pass/fail thing. I guess a Core i7 at 2.66 is a good enough environment to support 120 to 150 FPS in Q4 though. That's just a guess tho.
However frames per second (FPS) considerations miss the critical factor in most first person shooters (FPS); and that's network topology. Q3/Q4 clients only need a sustained 15K/s ~ 20K/s but hops, proximity, and other factors which affect ping delay is absolutely critical! I can beat any player in the world if my ping is 1 or 0 and theirs is 100 or so. My stats in Q3 when I was running my own server (logging on at 0-ping) sustained #4 world wide for almost an entire month. That's pretty incredible when you consider how the stats are compiled.
Game consoles are fine for these kinds of games too. You can get mouse and keyboard for any console worth playing FPS games on so your controls of choice are supported on either venue.
If anyone is worried about that just go to a local shop and buy it there. Most or all shops will order stuff for you. If you live out in the boons where there are no shops then WTH are you doing wasting your time with computers anyway?? Go water-skiing, rock climbing, back-packing, snowboarding, snowmobileing, get into farming, breed horses, grow pot!
That case looks like a maintenance nightmare. Whoever designed it was either on drugs at the time or suffering from a critical brain-failure. It's definitely what I call a "stoned design".
Well, you have to pay for everything so I'm not sure what you mean. But if you want silent operation just water-cool. A decent pump makes no noise at all and replaces the need for all of the fans (except PSU) in a given system. Fans are where the noise comes from mostly so...
Thx for the advice!
I'll be waiting until june/july to buy one though.
I'm hoping that by that time there will be a new model for the iPod touch, snow leopard will be preinstalled and the new GTX 285 will be available... fingers crossed!
Let's just hope the GTX285 doesn't cost a whole lot more than the 4870.
Because it's pc counterpart costs about twice as much as the 4870... and no, it's not twice the performance
Btw: do you think the GTX285 will be listed as an option (next to the GT120 & 4870) if I order my MacPro from apple.com or will I have to buy it seperately?
I'll be waiting until june/july to buy one though.
I'm hoping that by that time there will be a new model for the iPod touch, snow leopard will be preinstalled and the new GTX 285 will be available... fingers crossed!
Let's just hope the GTX285 doesn't cost a whole lot more than the 4870.
Because it's pc counterpart costs about twice as much as the 4870... and no, it's not twice the performance
Btw: do you think the GTX285 will be listed as an option (next to the GT120 & 4870) if I order my MacPro from apple.com or will I have to buy it seperately?