Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
i'd like to see the single table but not the august-april schedule. they, in no way, could compete with the NFL, MLB, NHL and NBA, NCAA Football + Basketball all at once... and those seasons will all overlap. MLS has a hard enough time right now V MLB. they're hardly on tv as it is....

I want to see a single table as well - it will better serve teams who have good regular-season records.

I also agree that moving the schedule in-line with Europe's August-April schedule is not going to work, at least for the forseeable future. The weather and competition from the NFL in particular is just too much of a challenge. Maybe someday, when the MLS has grown bigger and carved out a solid niche for itself, it could be done - as long as we had a big winter break like the Bundesliga.

In the short/medium term, I am more in favor of an apertura-clausura setup, as is done in Latin America.

some of those markets, imho, are ridiculous. Detroit can barely support their own people much less the Lions and the Tigers. bringing in another relatively unpopular/ most likely losing franchise into a greatly depressed theatre ... not sound business.

and why a 3rd team for texas? isn't there another state unused/untapped market that could use a team? North Carolina, TN, IN even AZ ?

Garber is smoking crack about Detroit - the city is an economic hellhole right now, plus it would be too close to Chicago/Columbus/Toronto IMO. We should spread the teams out geographically when possible.

By targeting Texas and California, he is clearly demonstrating that the league is really in-tune with its Hispanic fans and sees them as an important avenue for the growth of the league - on that I agree with him. We should try to spread the franchises out as much as possible, but if Texas and California's Latino population are willing to support new franchises, then those are markets that should not be ignored. Many Latinos seem interested in becoming consumers of MLS, even while remaining supporters of their favorite clubs "back home". Perhaps, as you suggested, they could start a team in Arizona or even New Mexico to spread things out a bit. Phoenix A.F.C sounds decent, eh?

MLS has no club in the south (unless you count Texas), so a Florida-based team is also worth trying (again). The last one did not do well though. Let's hope they've learned their lessons this time.
 
Interesting stuff. I suppose a key challenge the MLS faces when it comes to new teams is getting the balance right between spreading them around geographically and servicing the areas where there's likely to be good support.

The targeting of Hispanic fans to provide core support has worked for a number of teams, perhaps there are some other notable ex-pat communities for whom a similar approach could be tried?

Phoenix A.F.C sounds decent, eh?
Phoenix... er... Phoenixes? :eek:

Anyway, a treat for pachyderm – I know he likes new shirts, especially those that feature red and white stripes. :D

Behold, the new polyester rag of Athletic Club de Bilbao...

4837384152_d44969a1fc.jpg

Gorgeous stuff, absolutely gorgeous. Essentially it's the same shirt as the new West Brom and Sunderland home offerings, albeit with a far less offensive sponsor than the former and a differing collar from the latter.

Just for all the non-UKers, here's the collar detail... ;)

4837389548_c7e47eeab3.jpg
 
lol. Bilbao is my fave Spanish side... ;) I love that shirt despite the collar...

Lord: I was thinking AZ or NM also. I'd love to see one come to TN. Miami can/will work now I think.
 
The targeting of Hispanic fans to provide core support has worked for a number of teams, perhaps there are some other notable ex-pat communities for whom a similar approach could be tried?

There are a few large Eastern European expat communities here and there who love their football, but by and large the only football-loving immigrant communities we have are Hispanic. There was a time in the 19th century when large numbers of particularly Scotch (but also English and probavbly Irish) immigrants joined crack football clubs over here, for example with industrial giants Bethlehem Steel F.C.

Liverpool and Manchester were also major industrial centers, so it's interesting to see that US football giants of a previous era were centered around industry. The same thing is going on in Asia Korea with teams like Korea's Pohong Steelers.

Gorgeous stuff, absolutely gorgeous. Essentially it's the same shirt as the new West Brom and Sunderland home offerings, albeit with a far less offensive sponsor than the former and a differing collar from the latter.

I like it a lot. I usually don't like collared shirts so much, but that one looks great.

Lord: I was thinking AZ or NM also. I'd love to see one come to TN. Miami can/will work now I think.

We'll be at 19 teams by 2012. I don't recall if the MLS has decided on a cap on the number of teams, but I don't think we should go past 22-25 or so. Otherwise it would be too many for one league.

One thing about MLS that is surely very different from Europe is that teams can move. The franchise remains intact, but the location changes. So once we reach out maximum team number, the only way to start a new team is to buy an existing franchise and move it.
 
We should try to spread the franchises out as much as possible, but if Texas and California's Latino population are willing to support new franchises, then those are markets that should not be ignored. Many Latinos seem interested in becoming consumers of MLS, even while remaining supporters of their favorite clubs "back home". Perhaps, as you suggested, they could start a team in Arizona or even New Mexico to spread things out a bit. Phoenix A.F.C sounds decent, eh?

MLS has no club in the south (unless you count Texas), so a Florida-based team is also worth trying (again). The last one did not do well though. Let's hope they've learned their lessons this time.

I think Phoenix and Miami are no-brainers. San Diego is a maybe. It has a big potential fanbase, but it is not much of a sports city. How big a media market is in New Mexico?

After that, there are few potential markets left. San Antonio? Oklahoma City? Atlanta? St. Louis?
 
After that, there are few potential markets left. San Antonio? Oklahoma City? Atlanta? St. Louis?

Columbus is a pretty small town but, without any other top division sports teams, they can focus their attention on their MLS team, and we won the league in '08. Perhaps MLS will consider smaller cities without any MLB/NBA/NFL representation.

Cleveland has bid for an MLS team unsuccessfully several times. That's good for me in a way, since I'm a Columbus supporter...it would place me in a difficult position. ;)
 
Cleveland has bid for an MLS team unsuccessfully several times. That's good for me in a way, since I'm a Columbus supporter...it would place me in a difficult position. ;)
The proximity of Columbus was probably a key factor – when the MLS is trying to drum up support for the league and its teams, the last thing they'll want are new teams cannibalising the support of those close to it.

Looking at the map of how the teams are laid out across the States, two key areas jump out – the Southern States east of Texas, and the, er, top middle States (Montana, the Dakotas, Minnesota, etc). Is there any untapped potential there?

Alternatively, while there's no promotion or relegation to or from the MLS, could some USL teams be 'upgraded' to become MLS franchises? They're established teams so one would imagine the core support is there already, would developing these sides to be future MLS members be a less risky proposition than planting a brand new team in untested territory?

Meanwhile, the word is that Mark Hughes is going to be unveiled as the new Fulham gaffer...
 
Well the population out in the northwest(upper middle) states is an issue.
Not a real big telly market there and someone asked about New Mexico, no not there either. BUT New Mexico has a big Latino pop and I think it would fly.

I'd like to see them make one division and have promotion/relegation.
I realize it might ward off any would be new comers but this is what kills me about the MLS anyway: We seem to be wet nursing this league all the way.

Grow some balls and make it happen. If a small team gets promoted then hopefully the league can help with travel costs. If a big team is relegated and has to play in some smaller, less luxurious venue then, tough, go play. The good news is that fans of the smaller clubs will get to see some big time footballers. We might lose some fans but I bet we'd gain more in the long run.
 
I believe Bill Simmons from ESPN page 2 wrote:

A 2nd-tier EPL team should become (America's team across the pond) and sign US players to most of its spots. Then, ESPN should have a TV deal with this team to show all/most of its games.

Would this not be a team you'd follow???
 
I believe Bill Simmons from ESPN page 2 wrote:

A 2nd-tier EPL team should become (America's team across the pond) and sign US players to most of its spots. Then, ESPN should have a TV deal with this team to show all/most of its games.
I take it that he's proposing an already existing club, rather than a new 'franchise' be created?

Both would have their issues – with the former, supporters of said club most likely wouldn't be happy (and quite legitimately so) at their side being used as a vehicle to promote overseas players and a foreign TV station. A new 'franchise' style club would meet with considerable opposition I would think... one only has to look at how many supporters in England view the MK Dons, who were essentially created as a franchise and took the place of another club in the league setup – an unprecedented and hugely unpopular situation.

I think an individual club having its own TV deal would be an issue as well. Although some clubs here have their own TV stations you can subscribe to via Sky or whatever, they don't have their own TV deals to show their games – stations forge deals with the Leagues themselves. If USA FC have their own deal, would it be fair for them to also receive TV cash from the league? Probably not.

Finally, as non-EU citizens any American players wanting to play in the UK have to be granted a work permit, unless they also hold dual nationality with an EU country. Getting permits for a couple of key players wouldn't be a problem but enough to fill the majority of a squad would be a huge ask, and one that I'd imagine would be unlikely to get approval.
 
I take it that he's proposing an already existing club, rather than a new 'franchise' be created?

Both would have their issues – with the former, supporters of said club most likely wouldn't be happy (and quite legitimately so) at their side being used as a vehicle to promote overseas players and a foreign TV station. A new 'franchise' style club would meet with considerable opposition I would think... one only has to look at how many supporters in England view the MK Dons, who were essentially created as a franchise and took the place of another club in the league setup – an unprecedented and hugely unpopular situation.

I think an individual club having its own TV deal would be an issue as well. Although some clubs here have their own TV stations you can subscribe to via Sky or whatever, they don't have their own TV deals to show their games – stations forge deals with the Leagues themselves. If USA FC have their own deal, would it be fair for them to also receive TV cash from the league? Probably not.

Finally, as non-EU citizens any American players wanting to play in the UK have to be granted a work permit, unless they also hold dual nationality with an EU country. Getting permits for a couple of key players wouldn't be a problem but enough to fill the majority of a squad would be a huge ask, and one that I'd imagine would be unlikely to get approval.

I agree...but I'd assume ESPN would shell out some big bucks for this. It would also be a team that most people over there would really want to root against...or it would be an underdog that people would like?

I don't know--seems like it could be done. Don't some NFL owners own some of those clubs? I'm a huge futbol fan and I hate watching the MLS...I do, but it's watered down. I def. would watch this team play every game. It would be as if each city in the US would have its own futbol team.

I agree w/ your points (I'm not saying this is easy and could happen overnight), but it seems like there's a fanbase here that would really, really want to make it work?
 
...it seems like there's a fanbase here that would really, really want to make it work?
The thing is though, I think that most supporters would be aghast at their club being used in this way. If it happened to City I know that I'd be appalled.

Additionally, a further hurdle – there's also the new squad rule that Premier League and Football League clubs must adhere to from the start of the 2010/11 season. Each team will be limited to fielding a maximum of 25 players aged 21 or over, of whom a set number (at least eight in the Premier League, ten in the Football League) must be 'homegrown' – that is, they spent at least three years prior to the age of 21 at an English or Welsh club. Teams can field an unlimited number of under-21s, but they'd be less likely to get work permits agreed so the chances of them spending three years here to qualify as home-grown wouldn't be great.

So, as the rules stand, running a team from a predominantly American squad isn't going to be feasible.

If ESPN are happy to plough big money into Association Football, I think they'd be far better served using it to help develop the game in the States.
 
Agreed--like I said, I didn't look that far into it.

Also, the only way we're going to make soccer better here in the states is to have our guys play against the best and get paid the big bucks (aka EPL, NFL, NBA, etc...).

It's like having some english guys play in the CFL or something, hoping people will follow football and wondering why they suck when they go and play the Minnesota Vikings.
 
pachyderm posted a sneaky pic of the new Forest shirt a while back, and Umbro have officially unveiled it on their site...

4840443931_f89dbbbeff.jpg

...as suspected the sponsor has been added (the pachyderm pic was plain, but it doesn't look too bad on there - at least it's sharing the colours of the crest and manufacturers logo so it isn't fighting against them.

A good effort, that.
 
Looking at the map of how the teams are laid out across the States, two key areas jump out – the Southern States east of Texas, and the, er, top middle States (Montana, the Dakotas, Minnesota, etc). Is there any untapped potential there?

There could be, but the biggest problem there is that this part of the country doesn't have that many big cities and the population tends to be very spread out. There are NBA teams in Salt Lake City and Oklahoma City, neither of which has another major sports franchise. But looking down the list of major media markets, these states are not well-represented. None of the biggest cities in Montana, the Dakotas, Idaho or Wyoming are in the top 100 media markets.

College football is big in those parts of the country (hell, it's big in every part of the country) but each team only has about a half-dozen home games a year, so traveling to the games is a mini-vacation for the fans. Not to mention that those schools have alumni going back decades who have strong ties to their alma maters. One can't really expect much of that kind of dedication to travel during a 30+ game soccer season for a team that didn't exist the previous year.

Weather also could be a factor there. The Minnesota NFL team plays indoors because winter weather there is often severe. Their baseball season overlaps closely with MLS's season and the early and late games of the season are often played in cold weather. But the baseball team has been there for 50 years and has an established fan base. Looking at the map, the Twin Cities (Minneapolis & St. Paul) are the only major media market in that portion of the country that doesn't have an MLS team already. I don't know how much demand there would be.

In the South, the most obvious cities that are capable of supporting a team are Atlanta, Tampa, and Miami. Atlanta is a lame sports town by any measure and I doubt there's much demand there. (How Atlanta won the 1996 Olympics still baffles me. Ted Turner and Coca-Cola must have flat-out bribed people.) Miami used to have a team, but it didn't do well there. Miami also has a middling sports tradition, with only the NFL's Dolphins having a dedicated fan base. (Again, that team has been there over 40 years.) Twenty years ago Miami didn't even have baseball, basketball, or hockey(!) teams and none of those teams has had solid fan support so far.

The one other potential southern market might be Charlotte. It is a big media market and they do have a tradition of solid college soccer programs there. I have no idea how much attention it could get there though. It's the epicenter of NASCAR.


Alternatively, while there's no promotion or relegation to or from the MLS, could some USL teams be 'upgraded' to become MLS franchises? They're established teams so one would imagine the core support is there already, would developing these sides to be future MLS members be a less risky proposition than planting a brand new team in untested territory?

I suppose it could be done, but the USL team support bases are very small compared to the MLS teams. If you upgraded one of them to MLS, it would still be the equivalent of an expansion team playing against the established teams for the at least for the first couple years. And the way player contracts are done in MLS, most of the roster would be overturned anyway. More likely they would just establish a new team in the city and the USL team would move or disappear. Kind of counterintuitive, but we have no tradition of any kind of promotion here.
 
How about that MLS All Star Game?

I know it's not easy to get a team of relative strangers together to play cohesive football, but it's not like the All Stars managed to lose to a Premiership team in regular time until yesterday.

The more I watch Tom Cleverley, the more impressed I get by his play. I think the plans to loan him out to Newcastle should be cancelled and Sir Alex can send Michael Carrick over to Tyneside in his place.
 
How about that MLS All Star Game?

I know it's not easy to get a team of relative strangers together to play cohesive football, but it's not like the All Stars managed to lose to a Premiership team in regular time until yesterday.

The more I watch Tom Cleverley, the more impressed I get by his play. I think the plans to loan him out to Newcastle should be cancelled and Sir Alex can send Michael Carrick over to Tyneside in his place.

It was a VERY entertaining game. Regardless of the big win (5-2 in case anybody missed it), it was a lot of fun to watch. This is the first MLS game that I enjoy since the WorldCup, and I am glad I did.

Last time I saw the MLS all starts play was against Chelsea in Toyota Park in Illinois, where MLS won 1-0.

It definitely looked as if the ManU players were trying to prove themselves, so they did not hold back.
 
There could be...
Very informative. Ta muchly. :)

I know it's not easy to get a team of relative strangers together to play cohesive football...
We'll see how Mancini gets on this season. :p

Further squad trimmings at the KC – Kamel Ghilas is expected to complete a season-long loan to French outfit Arles-Avignon, but the big rumour currently circulating is that Bo Myhill is off to West Brom.

Say it ain't so, Bo. :(
 
schalke 04 announced yesterday that they got their contract with Raul all finished .. he is now the fourth player from Real going to the bundesliga within a single year

i always thought he would retire as a one-club player .. that he now went from the flair and hollywood atmosphere at Real to Gelsenkirchen with it's coal-miner-town 'charm' is nothing short of unbelievable... looks like in his age he wants to know if he can still do it in the champions league, before retirement as a manager at Real

meanwhile Real signed Khedira from VfB Stuttgart for a sum estimated between 12-15 millions... on the one side an absolute steal and on the other an equally big waste of such a good player
at real his biggest strenght, his forward runs, will go unnoticed since he will be occupied filling the gaps the Real all-star forwards will open constantly
 
Sort of shows the gulf between the big clubs and the lower league ones - Liverpool played their Europa match against the Macedonian team without ten of their World Cup players, but even then the players they had on the pitch were still worth around £40 million.
 
pachyderm posted a sneaky pic of the new Forest shirt a while back, and Umbro have officially unveiled it on their site...

View attachment 242083

...as suspected the sponsor has been added (the pachyderm pic was plain, but it doesn't look too bad on there - at least it's sharing the colours of the crest and manufacturers logo so it isn't fighting against them.

A good effort, that.

Love it still. Sponsorship aside....

I believe Bill Simmons from ESPN page 2 wrote:

A 2nd-tier EPL team should become (America's team across the pond) and sign US players to most of its spots. Then, ESPN should have a TV deal with this team to show all/most of its games.

Would this not be a team you'd follow???

Horrible idea. If I were a fan of that team I'd be livid.
 
How about that MLS All Star Game?

I know it's not easy to get a team of relative strangers together to play cohesive football, but it's not like the All Stars managed to lose to a Premiership team in regular time until yesterday.

The more I watch Tom Cleverley, the more impressed I get by his play. I think the plans to loan him out to Newcastle should be cancelled and Sir Alex can send Michael Carrick over to Tyneside in his place.

Cleverley - Newcastle United until January to see how well he steps up. If he does well, bring him back for the FA Cup, and if possible, some league.

Maybe Carrick will respond to an ultimatum, hopefully Nani has.

Cheers,
OW
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.