2011 Mac Mini Server w/ RED RAW Footage

[qCzar]

We are aware of that page, yes.

I remember that when it first came out and it's still impressive. But it's also a very carefully constructed shot. The light in the stairwell and behind the door provide a motivated back light to define Leo and separate him from the darkness. Put Leo's back towards an unlit wall in that rom and it's a much different shot.

Thanks for the link, I didn't realize it was on RedUser.


As for the technical aspect I quoted, I mention I'm shooting at night but don't give any insight about my scenes. I find it amusing that everyone jumps and says that I need light. There will be light, just the movie is going to introduce minimal light. It's going to be mostly location based lighting. But now we're on the subject of shooting and editing the movie more than we are on the original topic.

 

[mBox]

It happens a lot here at MacUser.
But Lethals first post is correct.
With you have you're in for hard times.
The closest system we have here to base your set-up would be an older MacBook Pro 2009.
We still used it for converting R3D in REDCineX but to ProRes.
Its slow trust me but mostly I/O as far as bottle-neck goes.
The minute we hooked up a eSata card it got better.
But no where near ATTO ExpressSAS and G-Tech set-up.

 

[LethalWolfe]

This, video with only a key is very flat.

http://www.red.com/learn/workflow

Try this if you havent already looked on here.

Just for clarification, when I said shooting flat is good I was referring to shooting a low contrast image to help maintain as much image quality as possible.

Fox10078's use of the term 'flat' is in regards to using lighting to help give the image 'depth', which is a good thing.

So you want a flat image w/regards to contrast but you don't want a flat image with regards to how the subject(s) look in the scene.

As for the technical aspect I quoted, I mention I'm shooting at night but don't give any insight about my scenes. I find it amusing that everyone jumps and says that I need light. There will be light, just the movie is going to introduce minimal light. It's going to be mostly location based lighting. But now we're on the subject of shooting and editing the movie more than we are on the original topic.

Unless given info that people know what they are doing I assume that they don't. And when you are thinking of using such a low-end setup to edit 4k R3Ds I extrapolate out that this whole thing is going to be done on a shoe string budget. In my experience most first timers tend to gravitate towards the camera excessively and neglect things like lighting, audio, wardrobe and set design even though proper lighting, audio, wardrobe and set design can make up for not having a great camera but having a great camera can't make up for so much else being inadequate. How much light you need certainly depends on your camera but the rule of thumb is always the same, the camera has to be able to see into the shadows. If the camera can't see what's in the shadows all you'll get is noise. Noise means more time and effort fixing it post which could impact your decision about which computers to use which brings us back to your original post.

I mainly deal in post and spend a lot of my time, unfortunately, fixing what production did wrong so to me it's really hard to have a conversation about only post, only pre or only production because they are all connected. What happens in pre impacts production which impacts post so post has to involved from the beginning (even though many times it is not).

Plus, I think it's been thoroughly addressed that using a Mac Mini Server is going to come up lacking if working w/4k R3D files.


Lethal

 

[WRP]

I mainly deal in post and spend a lot of my time, unfortunately, fixing what production did wrong so to me it's really hard to have a conversation about only post, only pre or only production because they are all connected. What happens in pre impacts production which impacts post so post has to involved from the beginning (even though many times it is not).

I swear, the next person I hear say "we'll fix it in post" is going to get throat chopped. Of course THEY are never fixing it in post, it's always guys like us.

 

[calviin]

Dear OP,

Please do us a favor and listen to what we have to say. It's less important to shoot on a Red than having a balanced budget for pre- and post-production. 4k will not run on a Mac Mini. I'm using a early 2011 2.2 GHz i7 on a 17" MBP. Despite the fact I'm only running FCP7 and 1080p video, I guarantee you that you would want to rent Red Rocket and a MBP or a Mac Pro. All of us here want to help but that requires you to listen. There are much better cameras suitable for your video. I personally would never recommend Red cameras unless you were doing Hollywood-class stuff. Current SLRs are more than good enough for indie-films right now. Yes, you get the amazing tone and light abilities of Red, but at what cost? For the amount of money to rent a Red for a couple weeks, I can probably buy a D8000/5DMk2 with a few lenses. (I might be exaggerating here, but I've seen the prices of Red cameras.) You also need lights and yes, you might be able to shoot at ISO 2000 under moonlight but proper lighting will change everything. The same person can go from carefree, innocent to dark and moody with the only thing changing is the lighting.

tl;dr? Focus on plot, lighting, sound, moral/takeaway message and stop drooling over the gear. I know it's tempting, but no one cares what you shot it on if it looks like crap. Good luck and happy shooting!

 

[qCzar]

I appreciate your concern. The cost of the red is really not an issue, we were able to secure a RED and a lens for a total of about 1.2k; that's for the entire eight days we'll be shooting.

I've also been listening and reading the posts. And you went over pretty much everything all the other posters covered. Which sadly, most of it is off-topic; I'll admit fault to replying to the off-topic posts.

 

[KeithPratt]

I find it amusing that everyone jumps and says that I need light.

But now we're on the subject of shooting and editing the movie more than we are on the original topic.

Which sadly, most of it is off-topic; I'll admit fault to replying to the off-topic posts.

The semi-paradox is that the higher you push the ISO, the higher you need to raise the blacks in order to obscure the noise. If you want to dig detail out of the shadows, the Sony F3 and Canon C300 will give you a cleaner image. If you shoot with RED you'd be prudent to consider adding a little light to the darker regions.

As you didn't ask for this advice, consider it a bonus that you got it.

 

[LethalWolfe]

As you didn't ask for this advice, consider it a bonus that you got it.

One man's bonus is apparently another man's off topic.


Lethal

 

[qCzar]

Bonus or not, it's not relevant to the topic at hand. While this topic has been insightful in just about every way other than it's intended course, it's still off-topic.

If you want to dig detail out of the shadows, the Sony F3 and Canon C300 will give you a cleaner image. If you shoot with RED you'd be prudent to consider adding a little light to the darker regions.

With what experience are you speaking from? The Sony F3 doesn't appear to shoot RAW and the Canon C300 seems to shoot at a more detailed format (50MB/s rather than 35), but still a compressed 8-Bit video file. Whereas R3D is a 12-Bit, up to 42MB/s, file. Personally, I'd rather have extra bit-depth though.

 

[LethalWolfe]

The topic at hand has been thoroughly addressed so I don't see what's wrong with having a related discussion. It's not like the thread got hijacked and nobody answered your original question.

With what experience are you speaking from? The Sony F3 doesn't appear to shoot RAW and the Canon C300 seems to shoot at a more detailed format (50MB/s rather than 35), but still a compressed 8-Bit video file. Whereas R3D is a 12-Bit, up to 42MB/s, file. Personally, I'd rather have extra bit-depth though.

Light sensitivity is dependent on the camera head (lens, imaging sensor, initial processing, etc., ) not the camera back (how the signal is recorded or leaves the camera). The codec certainly impacts how much image information is 'saved', for lack of a better term, but having a better codec doesn't mean you have a camera with better light sensitivity. A great example is the transition from SD to HD. Until the Sony EX1 came out there wasn't a sub-$10k HD camera that could match the low light ability of Sony's PD-170 SD DV camera.

Numbers aside, the C300, F3 and RED MX (even Epic) get comparable real world reviews and which one is 'best' typically comes down to a mix of personal preference, usability and specific situational requirements.


Lethal

 

[Kevin Monahan]

As of now Premiere on a Mac Pro w/a CUDA-compatible GPU and a fat eSATA or Thundberbolt RAID is going to integrate the best w/R3D files. If you can get a RED Rocket card ($5k-ish I think) all the better.

Right, editing R3D files natively in Premiere Pro is the right way to go. Just check out the forums on RedUser.net As LethalWolfe suggests, you do have to have a beefy system to edit at higher resolutions but you might have some success with a MacBook Pro at a fractional resolution, however, heavier iron is much preferred. It is not necessary to have a RED Rocket card or Thunderbolt array. A good RAID 0 array and a qualified NVIDIA GPU goes a long way with R3D playback.