Check out Lloyd Chambers' stress testing of SSDs at MacPerformanceGuide.com - Sandforce SSDs with overprovisioning seem not tobsuffer from degradation like the cheaper Apple SSDs or Intel's models.
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2011 Mac Mini - Speculation
- Thread starter Nanker/Phelge
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Check out Lloyd Chambers' stress testing of SSDs at MacPerformanceGuide.com - Sandforce SSDs with overprovisioning seem not tobsuffer from degradation like the cheaper Apple SSDs or Intel's models.
Thanks! That's interesting to hear. Do you have a link, please? I can't seem to find it on his site.
It's a long multi-page report and can be found here. It's worth noting that the SSD on the new MacBook Air uses a different Toshiba controller than Apple's previous SSD offerings. Anandtech reviewed and said that while it has very strong garbage collection, it may be too aggressive and end up shortening the life of the drive in the long run by forcing more write cycles than is necessary. So the best bet at the moment is still the SandForce-based drives.
I think the take-away message from it all is that, even though we've seen a rapid improvements in the past 3 years, SSDs are still cutting edge and the industry still has to catch up to this new technology and figure out how best to use it. I wouldn't be surprised if future editions of OS X or Windows offered native support for using SSDs the way that Seagate uses flash for their Momentus XT hybrid drives... in other words, let software figure out what files need to be sped up via the SSD so you don't have to shell out the money to put your whole boot drive and a chunk of user data on flash. I think once the OS vendors figure that out, you'll see a lot more first-party SSD integration in lower-end devices like the Mini.
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kas23
macrumors 603
This is nuts. Why are people suggesting Apple remove the optical drive? One of the biggest reasons to remove the optical drive is to conserve room, mainly for portable devices like netbooks. That is, they drop them to make the device smaller and more portable. Furthermore, Apple markets the Mac Mini as something you can hook up to the HDTV. If they removed the optical drive, this would eliminate people's ability to watch DVDs on their HDTV via the Mac Mini.
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Agreed. Heck, I want the consumer Mac Mini as a server just as I use the Optical Drive constantly (I currently have a G4/1.67 PowerBook as my server, and I use the optical frequently on it to import into my shared iTunes library and to grab footage off of DVDs for Projects I do).
No, no, no. Apple actually does not do that. If they wanted to market this unit towards the HTPC market, they would actually make a proper combo touchpad/keyboard, it would be capable of playing HD soundtracks, which it is not and it would have HDMI 1.4 and blu-ray support, which it doesnt.
Apple markets this unit as a replacement for PCs, for people who already have a keyboard, screen etc.
I WISH Apple would properly target the HTPC market with this unit, but they do not. As it is people basically just use it as HTPC anyway but Apple is not going out of its way to court them as a market.
Optical drives way out of date and they would not be missed on this unit IMO. I'd rather see that space used to make this unit capable of accepting the higer capacity 12.5mm height hard drives.
of course, Apple agree with you. The Mini is not for HTPC use, the Apple Tv is. And it does not carry an optical drive. Apple are targeting convenience over quality, hence H264 does not do 1080p, hence iTunes will provide lossless audio but the Apple Store doesn't sell it.
They're saying that their way comes first, but for those of you who really want lossless audio, you have tp rip your own discs, and if you want an Apple branded DVD player, here's HDMI out on your Mini, have fun with that.
The only point at which Apple could be seen as marketing the Mini for HTPC use would be if they ship it with a small SSD holding Apple TV's OS, dual booting with OS X, or if they ship it with the smallest iPod Touch to use as a virtual remote / keyboard to fill the gap you suggest.
Personally, I want a Mini iTunes server to feed all my audio and video to every iTunes carrying laptop, Apple TV or iPhone / iPod Touch and iPad on my wireless network. That way we won't need to use a Mini as an HTPC. That would be useful to me.
Akula971
macrumors regular
Get a Buffalo Link station mini together with an airport extreme. Plug the unit via its ethernet port. Stick your ITunes library on it. Start ITunes up whilst holding down ALT and select the ITunes library on the linkstation. Repeat for your other devices.
Optical drives are not out of date for many of the people who Apple targets the Mini at. For example, many video games - boom still on disk. Many software applications - boom still on disk. Who is the Mini aimed at: Families on a tight budget and switchers, what do these people have: Disks, lots and lots of disks. Getting rid of it would be absolutely stupid on Apples part, IMHO.
Are gamers the target group of a mini?
Applications that come on a disc?
Come again!
I don't know ANY application (other than Logic) that you can't download and activate.
Quad core in a mini and I'm jump for joy. As long as it came in under 1500. I basically would love a quad iMac withou the built in screen.
kas23
macrumors 603
Yes, yes, yes. Geez, you sound like a little girl who's not getting her way.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/features.html
About half-way down the screen, buddy, right from the horse's mouth:
"Mac mini comes to the big screen.
It’s easy to connect Mac mini to the biggest screen in the house — your HDTV — courtesy of a built-in HDMI port. Plug in one HDMI cable and start enjoying content on your Mac mini in brilliant HD. Like movies and TV shows from iTunes, the Internet, and your photo library. There’s also a handy control that lets you easily adjust the output on Mac mini to fill even the biggest HDTV screen. And when you just want to listen to music, you can play your entire iTunes collection through your home entertainment center, or stream it to a set of speakers in any room via an AirPort Express Base Station."
The reason why Apple does this and doesn't provide a full keyboard with a track pad is because Apple would never do such a thing to us. Using a full keyboard and track pad is a very clunky and aesthetically awful way to control a TV (regardless who is making it). It's ergonomically an incredibly dumb idea too. Could you imagine using this while laying down on your couch? What about using it while standing? Horrible solution for a simple problem.
As for not releasing it with HDMI 1.4 or BD, same reason why ATV only puts out 720p, Apple computers still use USB 2.0, the Mini still has an Intel C2D processor, etc. Because Apple is usually slow to offer cutting edge tech in their products...because it increases their profit margin...so they can always offer an exciting update every year...because people will still buy it no matter what it has in it....because they're Apple and they could do what they damn please. Steve Jobs could defecate into the case of a Mac Mini and 1 million people would camp out to buy it.
But why would Apple do this? The Mac Mini is already basically an ATV plus a whole lot more. You can get all ATV's offerings through iTunes on the Mini. As for the remote, I agree, this is not exactly simple. But anyone who is willing to use a Mini for HTPC use is likely tech savvy enough to figure out how to so it. Simply, anyone who has either a iPod Touch, an iPhone, or an iPad (I would guess, about 98% of the people on this forum), there are many remote apps you can use via your iDevice. They actually work pretty well too. I use HippoRemote.
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Icaras
macrumors 603
Because I use the optical drive like 5% of the time...And if Apple would rather not adopt blu-ray, then I think that space would better be used for beefing up the Mac mini, such as in better graphics or in more storage space options.
And I'll reiterate again: USB superdrive. Solved.
Interesting how Apple is so concerned with how its computers look and then refuses to make any consumer grade computer that has enough internal room.
So the customer then has to destroy, desecrate, disrupt the design elegance that Apple designed into its computer cases by plugging in a bunch of external drives.
Apple would rather have its users clutter up their workspace and possibly even hide that elegantly design Apple computer behind wires, cables and external devices instead of offering a mid range mini tower that more people could afford and that has the room inside for those external devices.
That sounds like good marketing. "That's a nice looking computer. If I could see it."
And I'll point out, no it isnt, as the USB superdrive is ugly, less convenient, and a real pain if youve got say 30 minis in a lab - its just the sort of thing people will walk off with. It also takes away from the idea of "heres a new computer, you can use all your old stuff, pop it in and it works" instead of the average PC - Macs: 1 Box, PCs: 3-4)
kas23
macrumors 603
That's fine you use it only 5% of the time. However, this computer is manufactured for the masses, not just you. Anyways, I think Apple could easy beef-up the storage while not sacrificing the optical drive. There are 1TB drives not that you can fit in your back pocket. Or, Apple can go with the SSDs it places in the MBA. Regardless, making the Mini slightly bigger is no cause for alarm because its not a mobile device. It's meant to sit on a desk.
*cough cough* Consumers - Like my teenage sister, like playing Sims 3 etc and like having them on disk. Shes not tech savvy enough to know where to download them from. They ARE the target group of the mini. 'nuff Said.
Icaras
macrumors 603
But the Mac Mini is still selling, isn't it? It's still successful, right?
Then purchase the consumer version. Another easy alternative would just be for Apple to provide a CTO version to choose the Mac OSX client for the drive-less Mini. Actually, this would be an easier route that could please all audiences.
I think it would be worth it then to see some statistics on how much of the masses actually use the optical drive today in 2011 and any predictions and analysis' of future use.
If the Mini were to begin adopting the onboard flash memory that the Air utilizes, I think what you propose with keeping the optical drive could still be achieved.
Regarding your last statement though, we're talking about Apple here. Do you honestly think they are going to make the Mini bigger? 😉
Santabean2000
macrumors 68000
Agreed.
Although I'm firmly in the 'let's kill the ODD' crowd, really I'm thinking more for portables where one has to lug it around all the time.
There is still a need to have at least one ODD in your household somewhere, to enable Remote Disk use for the few times you might need it for your portables, but also to rip dvds etc too.
I'm in the market for a new mini so I'm def very interested to see what comes next. And I'm hoping I don't have to wait too long either... *holds breath*
kas23
macrumors 603
No, I agree, they'll not likely make it bigger. A CTO verison would be a fine solution, but without a real price difference, I'm unsure if people would go for the version with no optical drive. Would people save money by going with the non-OD version? Doubt it. Would people care that the version with the OD weights 5 ounces more for a computer that's gonna sit on a desk for the duration of its life? Doubt it.
Icaras
macrumors 603
I was actually thinking Apple could keep the price as is (as the Server Mini), but just replace the optical drive with more flash storage drives or SSDs (but I'm aware that's impossible at the moment, given the current pricing of flash and SSD).
But with an optical drive-less mini, replaced with 2 or more flash storage drives inside, it's just much better use of the chipset architecture because you'll be able to exploit SSDs and flash drives with SATA speeds, which I think is a much better use of the chipset and technology.
If, and only if, Apple decides to adopt blu-ray, that I think the optical drive would better be served built in the computer so then that it could utilize SATA speeds for 1080p and HD audio, but alas, that doesn't seem to be the direction in which Apple is going, so I say ditch the superdrive. Because the USB interface is perfectly suitable for just a standard superdrive. No extra fast bandwidth needed. I hope my justification makes sense. Anyway, whatever happens, just give us some CTO options, Apple!
Of course I understand that such a mini would cost well over $1000, given that the current SL server costs $999, but I'm just looking ahead, optimistically, to the future 🙂
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skye12
macrumors 65816
It's my opinion that Apple still wants the mini to be a small, capable and affordable Mac. They darn well know its the machine of choice for much of the HT crowd. The AppleTv is more for the streaming novice.
The blu-ray question has already been answered indirectly by Job's repeated dislike of it's "business model" and other issues.
Apple will not support it in the future, ever. Personally, I wish they would too.
Could be very happy with the current mini, but have been holding out for the next
model with likely an i3 processor.
The blu-ray question has already been answered indirectly by Job's repeated dislike of it's "business model" and other issues.
Apple will not support it in the future, ever. Personally, I wish they would too.
Could be very happy with the current mini, but have been holding out for the next
model with likely an i3 processor.
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This is just another reason why I bought a Mac Pro - Keeps Apples hands off what optical drive I can and cant have inside my Mac...