2015 Wimbledon

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by 63dot, Jul 7, 2015.

  1. 63dot, Jul 7, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015

    63dot macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #1
    We often see top ranked Djokovic on men's side or top ranked Williams on women's side in the finals and to be sure they could be the best right now and maybe even ever. I don't think I have seen a men's player or a women's player with the weapons and sheer stamina and mental toughness of these two.

    Williams has no equal or at least since Steffi Graf days way back when and Steffi had at least Seles who had her number at times, but Williams never had anybody dominate her other than her older sister when they were very young. And while there are great #2, #3, #4, and #5 seeds on the men's side this year, Djokovic is further ahead this year than any former #1 was over their best competition at any time in tennis history (Novak at 13,845 to #2 Federer's 9665 points as well as being first man ever to win first three Masters 1000 tournaments): http://www.marketwatch.com/story/world-no-1-novak-djokovic-sets-two-records-2015-04-20

    But interestingly, while Djokovic easily beats his opponents he can often beat himself in Semi-finals and Finals with inconsistency, and he is in Quarter Finals and does face the highest ranked challenger in #9 Cilic. Others in Quarters are #4 Wawrinka vs #21, #3 Murray vs. an unseeded player, and #2 Federer vs #12. And Djokovic is the defending Wimbledon champion of last year and he could down Fenderer like last year and is 11 for 16 against him since turning #1, beat Murray like many times before and is 15 for 20 in that rivalry since hitting top spot, and certainly won't fall for and hit clay dampened shots to Wawrinka's backhands like the French Open and beat him 9 for 11 since number #1.

    If Williams makes it to final, she will only have to face #13 or #20 seed, but she still has to get past #4 Maria Sharapova in the Semi Finals which is the highest seeded match thus far at Wimbledon on women's side. Williams is coming off of rather recent wins at French and Australian Opens so I expect her to be at her peak. But when Sharapova is on, like these days and when she first rose to prominence, she can challenge Williams. Williams at 33 can't keep it up forever and Sharapova is five years younger and rivalry which has been mostly Williams, will change if Williams stays in tennis much longer.

    While I expect several more majors for both Djokovic and Williams, things could get very interesting if both #1 seeds fall in their next matchups. This type of possibility, which seems possible with seeds remaining and who is facing the two #1 players next, and is why I love tennis at times.
     
  2. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #2
    Very true.

    However, Djokovic is great to watch, if not just for how much fun he likes to have at the tournaments. For example, trying to be nice then getting into a fight and getting beat down:



    to making fun of (which subsequently called out) John McEnroe (read: poking the bear):




    With McEnroe and Agassi, tennis really hasn't been stiff, but is a long ways away from Bobby Riggs, Althea Gibson, and Arthur Ashe. But Novak does make it very funny. Tennis is the 2nd sport I play, and love it.

    BL.
     
  3. Scepticalscribe, Jul 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #3
    Look, Serena Williams is superb, superb, superb.

    As a role model, quietly and politely confident (but never cocky) black woman, articulate and gifted sportswoman, rounded and grounded and balanced human being, and superlative tennis player she has conducted herself with grace, dignity and decency superbly at the top flight for well over a decade. To be honest, Sharapova isn't in her league, - not professionally - and, frankly, never really has been, despite the fact that some male commentators, and some with other agendas from the US, might have preferred otherwise.

    Seriously: Take a look at the extraordinary career of Serena Williams - she took time out - because she is so grounded and balanced that she has other interests - and yet just look at what she has achieved and ask yourselves this: If a white - traditionally attractive - woman had managed to achieve anything approaching that degree of success, what would the (advertising and other) coverage be?

    Unfortunately, there is an old - very old - and disgraceful - double standard in some sports, which is especially marked and prevalent in women's tennis, which is that the media - and perhaps advertisers, and male commentators - tend to prefer traditionally attractive women (Sharapova, Gabriela Sabatini, Anna Kournikova, indeed, perhaps even Steffi Graf - who was a genuinely excellent player) - to the more athletically accomplished and better tennis players such as Monica Seles, and the Williams' sisters.

    It is as though they regret that the better player (who may be less aesthetically desirable - this is a sporting competition not a bloody catwalk - in fact, there is nothing more annoying than models - who haven't a clue how to hold or hit with a tennis racquet modelling sports clothing while looking beautifully brainless as they pretend to hit a tennis ball while having no idea how to actually set about doing that) rather than the more classically beautiful player has won.

    In such an universe, defined by male desire, someone like Gabriela Sabatini, or Maria Sharapova, or Anna Kournikova would always win Wimbledon, rather than the physically uninspiring but brilliantly gifted women who unfortunately, keep on winning, in defiance of the preferred script.

    Re the men, I used to like Roger Federer, until I noticed his spectacular lack of basic courtesies such as grace and generosity. Roger has a passionate love affair with himself; this is understandable, he is stylish, handsome, elegant, articulate, but I really do prefer it when someone can win with class and grace and generosity. I recall Roger's remarks in 2012 when he defeated the anguished Andy Murray in the final; let's just say there was little grace and no generosity. Roger - you can afford to share praise…….just a hint...

    Novak Djokovic is a fantastic role mode for Serbs (as, indeed, Monica Seles once was) and an outstanding tennis player.

    I'm not sure I like the grandstanding and psychological games-playing; actually, I don't. He's better than that, and doesn't need to to do it.

    As for Andy Murray, yes, you can say I'm a fan; brilliant, intelligent, thoughtful, brave, decent, with a fantastic work ethic, a subdued and unspectacular loyalty to those he respects, a history of appointing original, unorthodox and unusual coaches. Speaking personally, I'd love to see him win Wimbledon - again.
     
  4. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #4
    Very good question. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head that would be a distant second or third would be an Anna Kournikova or Michelle Wie. And while Wie is still upcoming, Kournikova found it hard to impossible to capitalize on the athletic part of her career and turn that into victories in the majors. However, both have and could easily again make the cover of Sports Illustrated or any fashion or fitness magazine.

    I'd even throw Martina Hingis into that mix.. But in thinking of it, none of them come close to Venus or Serena's amount of success.


    Unfortunately, too true. I keep comparing how pleasant tennis has been to the eye with the likes of Sharapova, Kournikova, or Ana Ivanovic, to the likes of Dinara Safina (sister of Marat Safin) or Arantxa Sanchez Vicario, which looked very stocky.

    Everytime I watch or think of Wimbledon, I don't really think of Murray, Federer, Nadal, or even Sampras and Agassi; When I think of Wimbledon, I always remember 2001, when after losing in the championship match 3 times, and his career and dreams fading, Goran Ivanisevic, ranked 125th in the world at that time, was given the wildcard spot, and went on to finally win Wimbledon against Patrick Rafter. When I think of winning and losing with grace and humility, I think of that match. I just watched it again, and you can't help but feel for both players.

    BL.
     
  5. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #5
    Agree with you about Anna Kournikova - another whom the (mostly male) commentariat would have loved to have been better at the actual business of playing tennis than she actually was.

    And agree re Goran Ivanisevic; that was wonderful and I was delighted for him when he won, especially in such circumstances.
     
  6. 63dot, Jul 10, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015

    63dot thread starter macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #6
    Federer and Djokovic have been pretty even with each other in their career and both have won about the same in Masters 1000 matches.

    But Federer was clearly the stronger player in their earlier matchups but Djokovic has won two thirds of the meetings since Djokovic's great 2011 year. Current odds during semis put Djokovic at even better than 2 for 3 in final against Federer. With chronological age and history of last five seasons, this match should go to Djokovic unless he completely falls apart and beats himself as happened in the French Open recently. Given Federer in his prime and if Fed were in his 20s, he would be 50/50 with Djokovic since Djokovic's rise to #1 in 2011, but there's five years between them so Djokovic has taken advantage of that and spent his early years in obscurity when Federer was already established.

    If Djokovic does not get his rhythm early enough, then Federer can win in straight sets but if it goes to four or five, then Djokovic and his stamina will win the day. Federer used to usually win in stamina types of matches with a lot of groundstrokes, but he's not the same player he was five years ago in that department. The only thing Federer has going for him is that he didn't wear himself out for the final by going four or five sets against Murray so it's the best situation for rest he could hope for going against the world #1.

    Tennis / Wimbledon / Outright betting - Men's
    Event Selection Odds
    2015 Wimbledon - Men's singles N Djokovic 8/13 S

    R Federer 5/2 S

    A Murray 11/2 S

    Also, quite an overwhelming nod for Djokovic who seems to be at the top of tennis in the most unchallenged way, ever:

    http://www.freebetsfreetips.com/who-will-win-wimbledon

    And since 2011, Djokovic has as many Masters 1000 titles since his 2011 run as Murray, Nadal, and Federer combined which makes a great case and couldn't be considered possible in any universe, considering who is in tennis today. So to call Djokovic the best men's player ever isn't premature, even though he has only 8 titles currently against the bigger trophy shelves of Nadal and Federer.

    http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/story/...t-player-ever-world-no-1-prepares-french-open

    Of the three most dominant years in tennis history for men, to match up with Mac's great year he had during the golden age of tennis when he had other greats to fight off, the other best years are Djokovic's 2015 winning three Masters 1000 out of the gate and racking up 13,000+ points, and Djokovic's 3 grand slams and 70-6 record not letting any player dominate him in 2011 given the company he had to keep. Basically, in 2015 it is Djokovic versus himself.

    Here's hoping tennis can be more interesting and have Federer win just one more where this is likely his best, last chance.
     
  7. 63dot, Jul 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015

    63dot thread starter macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #7
    Williams catching up with Graf and is not done yet and few will challenge Serena being seen as the best ever.

    With 2015 Wimbledon win just completed, Djokovic with his two majors, first three masters 1000s attempted and won, biggest point lead in rankings, arguably ranks up there overall on tour with his 2011 year or any single year for men. If he wins US Open this will put him in same sentence as Sampras and Federer for best ever. At least in his career, he's 20-20 with Federer and 70% in meetings since his #1 in 2011, so who is going to eventually dethrone Djokovic?

    My thoughts are that Andy Murray or Kei Nishikori are still on the rise and will realistically challenge to be the next #1s but probably more than two years from now. DJ will get at least another couple of majors, or more, and log in well over 250 weeks at number #1 in an era that had Federer and Nadal before and during, and Murray concurrently.

    I had thought that being #1 during the age of Agassi and Sampras was the hardest, or Connors/Borg/McEnroe/Lendl, but the big four of the last few years is the best golden age on men's side, ever. I can't be happier unless Wawrinka, Nishikori, and Murray all rank up a ton of majors wins, too and still have Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer as relevant top 10 players five years from now. A crowded field is the best way to determine who is the best and has a way of already great players becoming that much more honed.

    I love the rivalries on the men's side but it will take a lot more to be like this one:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1703668-ranking-the-10-best-rivalries-in-tennis-history/page/11
     
  8. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #8
    There are no women in tennis that can out power either Williams sister. They both have power and finesse that is unrivaled today or going back in time.
     

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