2016/17 MLB Hotstove thread

[Queen of Spades]

You guys are absolutely nuts, the Red Sox are set up for right now, but also for a long time. All of their top farm talent is now on the ML team. And the excess has been used to acquire assets to help with holes. Benintendi, Betts, Bogaerts, and Bradley are 23, 24, 24, and 26. Betts is already an MVP candidate, and Benintendi has already shown he can be an elite hitter. Why do you think they told the White Sox to go stuff it when they were asking for Benintendi?

Chris Sale was a steal. 27-year-old ace with a cheap contract for 1 top end prospect (who hasn't shown he can hit a curve ball or cut down on the strikeouts yet), Kopech (character issues), and two lottery tickets. You do that deal every single time and twice on Sunday. That's what you build your farm to do, contribute to the major league team as cheap, cost-controlled assets...and as pieces to get you positions of need. For every Syndergaard, there's a dozen Carl Pavano, Trey Balls, etc. Losing Moncada hurts, but you need to trade talent for talent, and Sale is an established ace.

They still have Devers, Groome and a few others in the minors, but right now the team is stacked with both young talent and veteran talent. The Yankees won a ton from 1998 onward with this exact strategy. How the hell am I the only one who remembers this? It's when they got away from supplementing their farm talent with free agents that they went to crap. You need both - that's the what the Red Sox are doing. Eduardo Rodriguez is 23! They're literally all kids. Cheap, talented kids.

As a Red Sox fan, I'm beyond excited. And Price is fine. All of his peripherals were good - he started off slow, but was excellent in the second half. The playoff win will come, he's a victim of SSS. Sale/Price/Porcello....goodnight.

 

[MacNut]

You guys are absolutely nuts, the Red Sox are set up for right now, but also for a long time. All of their top farm talent is now on the ML team. And the excess has been used to acquire assets to help with holes. Benintendi, Betts, Bogaerts, and Bradley are 23, 24, 24, and 26. Betts is already an MVP candidate, and Benintendi has already shown he can be an elite hitter. Why do you think they told the White Sox to go stuff it when they were asking for Benintendi?

Chris Sale was a steal. 27-year-old ace with a cheap contract for 1 top end prospect (who hasn't shown he can hit a curve ball or cut down on the strikeouts yet), Kopech (character issues), and two lottery tickets. You do that deal every single time and twice on Sunday. That's what you build your farm to do, contribute to the major league team as cheap, cost-controlled assets...or as pieces to get you positions of need. For every Syndergaard, there's a dozen Carl Pavano, Trey Balls, etc.

They still have Devers, Groome and a few others in the minors, but right now the team is stacked with both young talent and veteran talent. The Yankees won a ton from 1998 onward with this exact strategy. It's when they got away from it that they went to crap.

As a Red Sox fan, I'm beyond excited. And Price is fine. All of his peripherals were good - he started off slow, but was excellent in the second half. The playoff win will come, he's a victim of SSS. Sale/Price/Porcello....goodnight.

There are some big contracts coming up for the Red Sox and they won't be able to afford all of them. Plus they will have to pay Sale in 3 years when he turns free agent. The past year they depleted their system with some questionable signings. Price needs to get the bugs out of his head. He can't pitch in the post season and lets far too much get to him. He has great stuff when he is with it. It's when it goes to **** it really goes south quick.

 

[Queen of Spades]

There are some big contracts coming up for the Red Sox and they won't be able to afford all of them. Plus they will have to pay Sale in 3 years when he turns free agent. The past year they depleted their system with some questionable signings. Price needs to get the bugs out of his head. He can't pitch in the post season and lets far too much get to him. He has great stuff when he is with it. It's when it goes to **** it really goes south quick.

Again, this is being overstated hugely. What team won't have some turnover in 3 seasons? Most of the Red Sox's young talent is cost-controlled for awhile. They will make choices in 3 seasons based on need and cost...but for right now they're set for several years. And they have the money for extensions where it makes sense.

This is exactly what the Yankees did. Have a group of homegrown talent and supplement where necessary.

Betts controlled through 2020
Bogaerts controlled through 2019
Bradley controlled through 2020
Swihart controlled through 2021
Benintendi controlled through 2022
Eduardo Rodriguez controlled through 2020
Price controlled through 2022
Porcello controlled through 2019
Sale controlled through 2019
Pedroia controlled through 2020

 

[MacNut]

Again, this is being overstated hugely. What team won't have some turnover in 3 seasons? Most of the Red Sox's young talent is cost-controlled for awhile. They will make choices in 3 seasons based on need and cost...but for right now they're set for several years. And they have the money for extensions where it makes sense.

This is exactly what the Yankees did. Have a group of homegrown talent and supplement where necessary.

Betts controlled through 2020
Bogaerts controlled through 2019
Bradley controlled through 2020
Swihart controlled through 2021
Benintendi controlled through 2022
Eduardo Rodriguez controlled through 2020
Price controlled through 2022
Porcello controlled through 2019
Sale controlled through 2019
Pedroia controlled through 2020

And that gives them about 3 years, do you think they will be able to sign everyone? And by that time they might not have a farm system left.

 

[Queen of Spades]

And that gives them about 3 years, do you think they will be able to sign everyone? And by that time they might not have a farm system left.

They'll make choices like every other team. Some will be signed, some won't (draft picks), and the process repeats. You have to supplement major league talent with free agents and make trades. All three have to work together. Cubs, Red Sox, Astros, and others are all doing this well right now.

You don't win awards for having the best farm system every year. The Red Sox have a team full of their minor league talent. The point is to win championships and to have a chance to win them for as long as possible.

Would any Red Sox fan take back the Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett trade? Very similar to Sale/Moncada. Hell no, we won a Championship in 2007 with Beckett pitching for us. And also supplemented with young players like Ellsbury, Pedroia, etc. Same idea.

 

[MacNut]

They'll make choices like every other team. Some will be signed, some won't (draft picks), and the process repeats. You have to supplement major league talent with free agents and make trades. All three have to work together. Cubs, Red Sox, Astros, and others are all doing this well right now.

You don't win awards for having the best farm system every year. The Red Sox have a team full of their minor league talent. The point is to win championships and to have a chance to win them for as long as possible.

Would any Red Sox fan take back Hanley Ramirez for Beckett? Hell no, we won a Championship in 2007 with him pitching for us. And also supplemented with young players like Ellsbury, Pedroia, etc. Same idea.

I agree, and the Yankees have restocked theirs. Lets hope we have another good decade of the rivalry. I hate when one or both teams suck. Really makes it boring.

 

[Queen of Spades]

I agree, and the Yankees have restocked theirs. Lets hope we have another good decade of the rivalry. I hate when one or both teams suck. Really makes it boring.

The Yankees have done a really great job restocking. Agree 100%, the rivalry is boring when it's one-sided.

But someone had to stop you and Maflynn's insanity in this thread, you guys were rapidly losing touch with reality.

 

[MacNut]

The Yankees have done a really great job restocking. Agree 100%, the rivalry is boring when it's one-sided.

But someone had to stop you and Maflynn's insanity in this thread, you guys were rapidly losing touch with reality.

Love you too.

 

[AustinIllini]

Chris Sale is probably the best pitcher in the AL (played for a bad team so no one really paid attention), so in three years, expect him to cost mega money. What the Red Sox and White Sox did was make a deal fitting for their current roadmaps. On the other hand, the Nationals completely dropped the ball in the Adam Eaton trade.

 

[63dot]

You guys are absolutely nuts, the Red Sox are set up for right now, but also for a long time. All of their top farm talent is now on the ML team. And the excess has been used to acquire assets to help with holes. Benintendi, Betts, Bogaerts, and Bradley are 23, 24, 24, and 26. Betts is already an MVP candidate, and Benintendi has already shown he can be an elite hitter. Why do you think they told the White Sox to go stuff it when they were asking for Benintendi?

Chris Sale was a steal. 27-year-old ace with a cheap contract for 1 top end prospect (who hasn't shown he can hit a curve ball or cut down on the strikeouts yet), Kopech (character issues), and two lottery tickets. You do that deal every single time and twice on Sunday. That's what you build your farm to do, contribute to the major league team as cheap, cost-controlled assets...and as pieces to get you positions of need. For every Syndergaard, there's a dozen Carl Pavano, Trey Balls, etc. Losing Moncada hurts, but you need to trade talent for talent, and Sale is an established ace.

They still have Devers, Groome and a few others in the minors, but right now the team is stacked with both young talent and veteran talent. The Yankees won a ton from 1998 onward with this exact strategy. How the hell am I the only one who remembers this? It's when they got away from supplementing their farm talent with free agents that they went to crap. You need both - that's the what the Red Sox are doing. Eduardo Rodriguez is 23! They're literally all kids. Cheap, talented kids.

As a Red Sox fan, I'm beyond excited. And Price is fine. All of his peripherals were good - he started off slow, but was excellent in the second half. The playoff win will come, he's a victim of SSS. Sale/Price/Porcello....goodnight.

When we lost Pablo Sandoval in SF, it was a sad day. Besides Tim Lincecum, he was the most popular player we lost to another team. Like Lincecum, Pablo was a part of three postseasons and three rings.

When Pablo is thin, he is really good and I think you should have a strong 2017. Even I will root for his success.



http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/210914654/pablo-sandoval-comeback-2017-boston-red-sox
[doublepost=1481565286][/doublepost]

But meanwhile in SF, we are biting our nails.

I am not 100% percent that San Francisco could beat the odd year curse, having totally failed to see 2011, 2013, and 2015 postseasons the year after a World Series championship, but I have hope for 2017.

Our two biggest targets of the Hot Stove 2017, Cespedes and Chapman, are in New York for 2017. Oh well, that sucks. Kenley Jansen is most likely to be Miami Marlins to boost that team, so at least he won't haunt us as LA's closer.

We do have the next best thing besides those three to help the Giants and it's Washington's closer, Mark Melancon.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/giants-nearing-deal-with-mark-melancon.html

Somehow we need a good hitter like a Dexter Fowler, but he went to the Cardinals, one of our arch enemies. But without hitting with a man like Fowler to add to what little we have left, the 2017 campaign may be another cursed year where we don't even make the playoffs. Our pitching will be insane with three of the ten Cy Young short list pitchers for 2016 (Cueto, Madbum, Melancon), but there has to be hitting to make the 2017 postseason appear.

If you were a Giants fan, or are, who would you consider who is available who could help San Francisco?

 

[pachyderm]

When we lost Pablo Sandoval in SF, it was a sad day. Besides Tim Lincecum, he was the most popular player we lost to another team. Like Lincecum, Pablo was a part of three postseasons and three rings.

When Pablo is thin, he is really good and I think you should have a strong 2017. Even I will root for his success.



http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/210914654/pablo-sandoval-comeback-2017-boston-red-sox
[doublepost=1481565286][/doublepost]

But meanwhile in SF, we are biting our nails.

I am not 100% percent that San Francisco could beat the odd year curse, having totally failed to see 2011, 2013, and 2015 postseasons the year after a World Series championship, but I have hope for 2017.

Our two biggest targets of the Hot Stove 2017, Cespedes and Chapman, are in New York for 2017. Oh well, that sucks. Kenley Jansen is most likely to be Miami Marlins to boost that team, so at least he won't haunt us as LA's closer.

We do have the next best thing besides those three to help the Giants and it's Washington's closer, Mark Melancon.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/giants-nearing-deal-with-mark-melancon.html

Somehow we need a good hitter like a Dexter Fowler, but he went to the Cardinals, one of our arch enemies. But without hitting with a man like Fowler to add to what little we have left, the 2017 campaign may be another cursed year where we don't even make the playoffs. Our pitching will be insane with three of the ten Cy Young short list pitchers for 2016 (Cueto, Madbum, Melancon), but there has to be hitting to make the 2017 postseason appear.

If you were a Giants fan, or are, who would you consider who is available who could help San Francisco?

is it me or is our park not a HR hitter friendly park? Bonds was roided up when he played there.

 

[63dot]

is it me or is our park not a HR hitter friendly park? Bonds was roided up when he played there.

Melancon is supposed to egg hitters into ground balls in the infield and we have a solid infield defense. On paper this is the best person we could get. He's not as overwhelming as Jansen or Chapman, who we also looked at, but as a piece to fit in, Melancon is perfect.

We need a high batting average outfielder now, and Fowler already went to the Cardinals. If we got Fowler, and with Melancon, we would be the overstaffed "Cubs" or "Yankees". Without hitting, we are only a good team but not dominant, imho.

I think Cubs will be strong again and I would keep an eye out for the Mets and the Red Sox. If the Marlins get Jansen, then they could be the one to beat.

 

[Centaurr]

You gotta be kidding me, Aroldis Chapman says; "cubs manager misused me during post season" dude man up, i lost respect for Chapman now. you are a reliever pitcher, thats how it works. if you were a main pitcher, thats alittle different. Geez, these guys get millions to throw a ball and they complain, i dont like him anymore...smh

 

[pachyderm]

You gotta be kidding me, Aroldis Chapman says; "cubs manager misused me during post season" dude man up, i lost respect for Chapman now. you are a reliever pitcher, thats how it works. if you were a main pitcher, thats alittle different. Geez, these guys get millions to throw a ball and they complain, i dont like him anymore...smh

agreed.

Not sure how familiar you are with the Cub's history but he reminded me of one of their former relief pitchers, Lee Smith.
Smith either gave up the winning dinger or got them out. More often than not he gave up the dinger. He was useless in the post season. It's all speculation but IMHO Chapman was one pitch away from being Lee Smith. Piss on him.

 

[quagmire]

Pitched in low leverage games where maddon could have gave him rest. It is clear to all of us he was overworked and maddon did misuse him. Game 7 was proof enough there was barely anything left in his tank. Heck he took out Hendricks too soon. Could have easily left him in through 6-7 innings. And let Lester take 7-8 and maybe 9 and then bring in Chapman if Lester got in trouble in the 9th.

Though I agree he should not have spoke out about it.

 

[Centaurr]

Pitched in low leverage games where maddon could have gave him rest. It is clear to all of us he was overworked and maddon did misuse him. Game 7 was proof enough there was barely anything left in his tank. Heck he took out Hendricks too soon. Could have easily left him in through 6-7 innings. And let Lester take 7-8 and maybe 9 and then bring in Chapman if Lester got in trouble in the 9th.

Though I agree he should not have spoke out about it.

so you agree with him?...with that i comment i can tell whos your favorite baseball team and its not the cubs. comment invalid.

 

[quagmire]

so you agree with him?...with that i comment i can tell whos your favorite baseball team and its not the cubs. comment invalid.

So is any comment you make that is anything related to the Mets if my view is invalid because I'm being a Yankees fan.

And if you really want to know, I think we should have gone after Melancon instead.

And yes I do agree with him. They had several big leads that didn't necessitate Maddon bringing him in for multiple innings. Maddon saw Francona's use of Miller and their closer(forgot who), and decided to copy it. Fact is the Cubs had a better rotation and didn't need to rely on the pen like the Indians had to. The Cubs also lacked that bridge to Chapman. There was no need to stretch Chapman out and overwork him since a few games he came in, they had decent leads. You saw the result of that fatigue in Game 7.