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Or what is actually US only, Its to be expected off-shore sales are going to trend far differently that US sales. Just because you are getting outsold in china, does that really matter to what you market in the US? only if you try to market cheap crap in the US to standardize your production lines. The blathering about global markets is so much BS, separate out to continents at least beforehand.

Totally agreed.
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Yeah the problem is profit means nothing to a person buying a product from any company.

Same as market share means nothing to a person buying any product..

Do you buy products because a company has a large market share or is highly profitable? I know I don't.
 
Slow and Steady wins the race. I pay my Apple dues, and I have almost zero headaches, in an already headache filled computing world. Yeah they're all going to race to the bottom in price, but when people start going 4-5 years keeping their phones, and Asia, India, and Middle East get into the mix, and another 10 years from now, and difference will be clear, between: I can pay $500 for the Apple the WILL WORK 99.9% of the time, and know I am secure and my phone won't fail, and all the other hazards in the update world, versus $100 for a phone that won't work that they'll probably have to buy a new one still every 1-2 years at that $100, and realize they are buying soda cans vs real devices.

Summary:

A 4-5 year iPhone that costs $500, that will work and is secure, or
A 1-2 year phone that costs $100, the doesn't work? and is insecure...

It's a FREE WORLD, where you can choose your headache...
 
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This is partially due to the fact that Android smartphone makers make budget phones which a lot of people buy. Apple doesn't make budget phones so they are missing out on a very large demographic. If apple made a true budget phone I'm pretty sure people on developing countries would buy and drive up their market share.

Secondly even in the high end market ios devices are behind smartphone makers in terms of hardware and functionality like samsung, HTC and even now Huawei. The rumors about iphone 7 aren't helping either.

I honestly love ios and it's devices . It looks nice and the apps are always high quality but apple has done little to innovate and all they have been doing these past years is copying jailbreak and Android features. And apple keeps treating their consumers like 2 years. They could at least add a pro or advanced mode that would allow power users to do more with their device. Don't even get me started on the chunky bezels they still have after all these years.
 
Well you know that's true. I for know for a fact if I WANTED to customize my phone to DEATH, and have control over every element, then I would HANDS DOWN, get an Android phone. They crush Apple in this arena. That's why we loose so many "tech guys" to Android, because some guys are just tweakers and want to be able to MOD. I just don't have time to customize my phone, and I really am not into thinking of it as my primary device, for hacks or cracks. To me it's an LTE connection for being on the road, I develop for it, and really don't use that many Apps. I need to it be reliable, because it's my main line. So I don't feel like root-ing my phone and taking any risks with it. I did developer beta updates in the past after WWDC times, but, having to (root) your iPhone with a beta release every two weeks is a pain in the ars. I just want a device I can count on, that is DONE. Put it my pocket I am gone. To some guys their phone is toy to tinker with, that I just want to forget about.
 
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But Apple is about *premium* products. a budget phone here and there, but if you want cheaper, go to Android, and Apple wouldn't care less... They only care about customers coming to Apple, not going away..

You won't get a call from them to say "What can we do to make you stay with us" If i thew in the towel, Apple would say say "ok,, so long."
 
But Apple is about *premium* products. a budget phone here and there, but if you want cheaper, go to Android, and Apple wouldn't care less... They only care about customers coming to Apple, not going away..

You won't get a call from them to say "What can we do to make you stay with us" If i thew in the towel, Apple would say say "ok,, so long."
I actually think their whole ecosystem is about keeping the customer. AirPlay, for one, is about locking you into the system because it has unique features over Casting. Making it easy to pick up a call on your iPad or Mac. Having cross platform apps available that are optimized for both the iPhone and iPad. The notifications and messaging working across platforms. Features like Airdrop or Photos. Even the watch is about keeping you using the iPhone.

Updated firmware going back to old devices without nearly as much fragmentation is another benefit to the entire ecosystem.

This isn't just a spec game, it is about the whole system being more important than a thin bezel ( or whatever xyz feature you feel you are missing).

Despite all the doom and gloom, iPhone and iOS are still far and away the most profitable on the market ( http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...uch-more-profitable-the-iphone-is-than-a.aspx ).

While the argument over market share vs profitability has been going on since Microsoft vs Apple days. I don't see Apple changing that approach. However, it would be interesting to see them release a subpar $100 phone and see their profits tank, but at the same time tell their shareholders that things are better than ever because their market share has grown.
 
I'm curious-- where does your user name come from?
First name adr*** 2nd name mob******** birthday 7th of jan. Boring I know. I suppose I should have put the year on as well, a bit lazy, call me admob7193. I'll gonna change my username if I can, time to get some housekeeping in order.
 
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First name adr*** 2nd name mob******** birthday 7th of jan. Boring I know. I suppose I should have put the year on as well, a bit lazy, call me admob7193. I'll gonna change my username if I can, time to get some housekeeping in order.
Admob is also a Google advertising business...
 
When your selling point is specifications and not the HUMAN, EMOTIONAL experience, you know you've failed.

Android: I can weld together some steel I-beams and make a crude car chassis, to which I bolt a V8 engine, wheels, a crude driving mechanism, controls and a seat. Technically it's VERY powerful, but the experience is POOR and lacks all the comfort and delight of a Bentley.

iPhone: I buy a Bentley, I get in and I drive it. The experience is SO quiet, the air so cool and refreshing and the ride so smooth and luxurious, that I don't care about the engine under the bonnet - I know it HAS one, but I don't think about it. This thing is a DREAM, I get to meetings feeling refreshed, relaxed and calm.

I think my point is well carried.


===========================================================


Another example:

Person A: "Look at my HUGE collection of sable brushes and oils, look at these HUGE canvases I have, the oils are UV resistant and these canvases are woven in a special way with extra thick threads that resist tearing more than ordinary canvases. One day I shall get around to using them to paint something amazing"

Person B: (silent, and points to the wall...):

Thomas_Cole's_%22The_Picnic%22,_Brooklyn_Museum_IMG_3787.JPG
 
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Apple should offer more affordable phones. A plastic case, 1.5GB RAM iPhone 5C Rev.2 could do the job. The same thing with iPads. A non-Retina, plastic case, faster-than-Mini 1 could cover a niche which Apple refuses to explore.

People from underdeveloped countries can't afford $600 for an iPhone SE. A competitive Samsung Galaxy J5 can be found for ~$200,00. A ~$200 5C with more RAM could be an attractive product.
 
The decline of iOS is being caused by Apple killing small developers on the app store. Gone are the days when you would pull out your iPhone to check the app store to see what crazy new ideas someone came up with - ideas no one in middle management at a larger company would risk their desk job to advocate. I know this because I've worked both for those companies (where crazy ideas were 'killed' - only to see someone else hit it out of the park with the same idea), and have also shipped my own apps - including a "first ever" idea in the store = $$$$. Removing discoverability features from the app store has killed small devs - the cost to produce an app now requires a large marketing budget for any chance of success because NO ONE sitting in a cube at Apple will advocate featuring crazy new idea apps from a "nobody" software company.

Also, in the past Apple 'justified' the iPhone's position as the "high-end" smartphone due to having the best apps platform in the market. That enabled the onslaught of apps for the platform - but now for some reason apple wants to limit the number of new apps with the stupid featuring system which is just as mysterious as app approval. As other platforms reach parity with app development capability, the iPhone will just become a higher priced cell phone. Sorry, very few people will pay more money just for a rose gold color phone.
 
The decline of iOS is being caused by Apple killing small developers on the app store. Gone are the days when you would pull out your iPhone to check the app store to see what crazy new ideas someone came up with - ideas no one in middle management at a larger company would risk their desk job to advocate. I know this because I've worked both for those companies (where crazy ideas were 'killed' - only to see someone else hit it out of the park with the same idea), and have also shipped my own apps - including a "first ever" idea in the store = $$$$. Removing discoverability features from the app store has killed small devs - the cost to produce an app now requires a large marketing budget for any chance of success because NO ONE sitting in a cube at Apple will advocate featuring crazy new idea apps from a "nobody" software company.
The app store is becoming more and crowded, no doubt, and app developers need to evolve to survive as well. No one else is going to do your promotion for you, and I feel it is counterintuitive to expect Apple or any other platform to come to your rescue.

Apple doesn't owe anyone a living. The onus is on the app developer to come up with his own marketing, be it via social media, having it featured on websites such as Macstories or iDownloadblog, or whatever. It seems like quite the entitled mindset to assume that Apple is somehow obligated to showcase new apps (which probably number in the thousands every week, if not more) and give equal weighting to each and every one.
 
The app store is becoming more and crowded, no doubt, and app developers need to evolve to survive as well. No one else is going to do your promotion for you, and I feel it is counterintuitive to expect Apple or any other platform to come to your rescue.

Apple doesn't owe anyone a living. The onus is on the app developer to come up with his own marketing, be it via social media, having it featured on websites such as Macstories or iDownloadblog, or whatever. It seems like quite the entitled mindset to assume that Apple is somehow obligated to showcase new apps (which probably number in the thousands every week, if not more) and give equal weighting to each and every one.

You misunderstood/spun my point. I understand Apple does not owe anyone a living and never implied they do.

By dissuading small developers Apple has killed the apps "wow - who would have thought of that" factor, which has caused the iOS platform to suffer.

The iOS App Store is a CAPTIVE marketplace in which they totally dictate pricing terms (family share) AND they removed discoverability features that were there in the beginning - this now dissuades small developers to from the platform because marketing costs have driven up total investment costs for any app. If Apple whimsically decided to raise the iOS developer membership to 10k per year, how many more developers will leave the platform?

BRINGING BACK a simple sort by release date feature is not "a promotion", and is not impossible, and does not affect their "featuring" system in the slightest bit. Or, they could just let developers sell and distribute directly to the platform like you can on Mac (it's not that different anyway).
 
Maybe the problem with iPhone is not only its rivals, maybe the problem is there are not much more people who can/should spend that kind money on a phone. It should be interesting to know how much people is left without an iPhone having 1600-2000 USD of free cash after essential spending, those who would need to spend 50% or less of the monthly disposable cash on an iPhone. All the rest are just fanboys or fashion victims who are living way above their means, and you can't trust your business entirely on that kind of customer. The problem of going just high end is that high end buyers are way less than mid-end and low-end by definition. How this will end up, only God knows, but the Mac vs PC precedent is the most seemingly way, if the smartphone war lasts long enough. In my case, the things keeping me tied to Apple are the customer service, the ecosystem and smaller screens. I have tried the Plus model for a month, and I can't imagine living with that kind of brick everyday now, that's why smartphones as capable as the S7 edge are just not on my radar.
 
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Maybe the problem with iPhone is not only its rivals, maybe the problem is there are not much more people who can/should spend that kind money on a phone. It should be interesting to know how much people is left without an iPhone having 1600-2000 USD of free cash after essential spending, those who would need to spend 50% or less of the monthly disposable cash on an iPhone. All the rest are just fanboys or fashion victims who are living way above their means, and you can't trust your business entirely on that kind of customer. The problem of going just high end is that high end buyers are way less than mid-end and low-end by definition. How this will end up, only God knows, but the Mac vs PC precedent is the most seemingly way, if the smartphone war lasts long enough. In my case, the things keeping me tied to Apple are the customer service, the ecosystem and smaller screens. I have tried the Plus model for a month, and I can't imagine living with that kind of brick everyday now, that's why smartphones as capable as the S7 edge are just not on my radar.

Even for those that can afford it when will they stop purchasing or begin delaying the purchase. I know that I wouldn't spend $800-$1000 on any phone every two years that's money that would be better used elsewhere. There are a lot of great phones under $400 now that didn't exist a few years ago.
 
Even for those that can afford it when will they stop purchasing or begin delaying the purchase. I know that I wouldn't spend $800-$1000 on any phone every two years that's money that would be better used elsewhere. There are a lot of great phones under $400 now that didn't exist a few years ago.

That's very true, even being able to expend that kind of money, when you see some high end phones nowadays for 450 or less... I mean, 400€ of difference is a lot of money, that in my book is 1-3 years of GYM suscription, or a year of my home internet connection, or 3.5 years of my phone data plan, or almost 2 years of weekly cinema tickets, 12 years of my netflix suscription, 6.5 years of netflix+spotify... And for the last year or so, at least here, the iPhone resale value has been sinking A LOT. I bought a 6s Plus 64Gb last December (969€ here) and with the same discount than years before, it took 4 months to sell it, in pristine condition with 1 month of use, and I was lucky because most offers went for a 50-60% discount over retail price, go figure.

Let's asume it, nowadays the difference is more about not just software but services above all, than about hardware. And Apple doesn't provide the best services in the world, does it. My ignorance about these new phones is what keeps Apple making money from me, that's for sure, that and being a little fanboy too. But at the end of the day, I don't use iMessage, I use Whatsapp, I don't use Apple Music, I use Spotify, I don't use iCloud Drive, I use Dropbox...
 
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I wish some of these 'analysts' would do a comparative report on profitability of iOS vs other software over same period of time... What is the use in being a market leader when your profits are wafer thin?

But profits don't mean a great deal if your market share is in decline. If more people are choosing to buy your competitor's products, it could be a slippery slope. Apps for Android would get more investment and features than their iOS counterparts, new tech products are more likely to have Android compatibility and less likely to work with iOS.

Just look at PayPal's decision the other day to drop Windows, BlackBerry and Amazon apps. How long before app makers also drop iOS support?

It could be a slippery slope downward, profits don't really matter in that case.
 
Just look at PayPal's decision the other day to drop Windows, BlackBerry and Amazon apps. How long before app makers also drop iOS support?

When iOS usage share gets to the extremely low numbers those platforms had. iOS has over a billion active devices. So i don't see app makers dropping that platform even if they had a 90% drop in usage.
 
When your selling point is specifications and not the HUMAN, EMOTIONAL experience, you know you've failed.

Android: I can weld together some steel I-beams and make a crude car chassis, to which I bolt a V8 engine, wheels, a crude driving mechanism, controls and a seat. Technically it's VERY powerful, but the experience is POOR and lacks all the comfort and delight of a Bentley.

iPhone: I buy a Bentley, I get in and I drive it. The experience is SO quiet, the air so cool and refreshing and the ride so smooth and luxurious, that I don't care about the engine under the bonnet - I know it HAS one, but I don't think about it. This thing is a DREAM, I get to meetings feeling refreshed, relaxed and calm.

I think my point is well carried.


===========================================================


Another example:

Person A: "Look at my HUGE collection of sable brushes and oils, look at these HUGE canvases I have, the oils are UV resistant and these canvases are woven in a special way with extra thick threads that resist tearing more than ordinary canvases. One day I shall get around to using them to paint something amazing"

Person B: (silent, and points to the wall...):

Thomas_Cole's_%22The_Picnic%22,_Brooklyn_Museum_IMG_3787.JPG

Sure, mate. That's why they have publicly refused to used electric or less than v8 motors. Because they don't care about specs. As long as they are V8 or W12... Prestige is gained by build quality and specs, don't fool yourself. Crappy car brands are those who sell ridiculously underpowered badly built cars, part of the range or full range. Every prestige car brand use top specs and brag about it. Apple has been hiding the RAM spec because they know it's shameful. They talk very rapid about storage too, but they spend all the time of the Lord talking about CPU and GPU architecture and showing off demos. I guess why they didn't show off RAM heavy situations.
 
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When your selling point is specifications and not the HUMAN, EMOTIONAL experience, you know you've failed.

Android: I can weld together some steel I-beams and make a crude car chassis, to which I bolt a V8 engine, wheels, a crude driving mechanism, controls and a seat. Technically it's VERY powerful, but the experience is POOR and lacks all the comfort and delight of a Bentley.

iPhone: I buy a Bentley, I get in and I drive it. The experience is SO quiet, the air so cool and refreshing and the ride so smooth and luxurious, that I don't care about the engine under the bonnet - I know it HAS one, but I don't think about it. This thing is a DREAM, I get to meetings feeling refreshed, relaxed and calm.

I think my point is well carried.
brilliant, this must b post of the year for delusional dreams of non existent grandeur. It costs about 150 bucks to make an iphone and you think it's on a par with a Bentley, ignore the low cost droid handsets, compare apples to apples. A top end galaxy edge or note costs as much if not more to produce, they are premium in every way inluding cutting edge spec that the emperors new clothes phone won't have for several years. It's embarrassing that anyone in 2016 actually thinks like this.
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When iOS usage share gets to the extremely low numbers those platforms had. iOS has over a billion active devices. So i don't see app makers dropping that platform even if they had a 90% drop in usage.
Nope, they have sold a billion, how many are in a bin now. With android at 85%, that would mean nearly 6 billion people have a smartphone, no chance.
 
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