2016 Macbook Pro 15" first impressions

[therealseebs]

i don't know if ergonomic is the right word. i think the correct assumption is that they want to make it as light as possible while making the least amount of compromises and I think they've done that.

This keyboard is one hell of a compromise compared to the previous-gen keyboard.

Realistically, it seems to me that I'm going to need to have an external keyboard to use this machine for any length of time. There's no way they saved enough weight to make up for that keyboard.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

This keyboard is one hell of a compromise compared to the previous-gen keyboard.

Realistically, it seems to me that I'm going to need to have an external keyboard to use this machine for any length of time. There's no way they saved enough weight to make up for that keyboard.

I mean, I think the keyboard is just fine. I'm sure they sold a ton of original macbooks and had enough information on the keyboard to make this choice.

My opinion is that as long as the keyboard is accurate, I don't have many complaints.

 

[techspin]

I don't think you'll miss once you get used to it. Do I miss those clunky keyboards from the 90's? Hell no. Did the people from the 90's miss the typewriters? I don't think so. You should come back to this thread in a few weeks to tell us your updated impressions



They do already, and lo and behold, it sticks out like a mf. I had the link somewhere, if you're interested. MagSafe will be missed, no doubt about that...

You must try a mechanical keyboard...preferably one with brown cherry mx switches. Although I think mechanical keyboards offer the best typing experience, I can appreciate the new MBP keyboard. Like a previous poster (the one claiming 150 wpm typing speed lol) mentioned, the low profile design makes it feel more efficient.

 

[Macalway]

i don't know if ergonomic is the right word. i think the correct assumption is that they want to make it as light as possible while making the least amount of compromises and I think they've done that.

Why is ergonomic not the word? Is ergonomics antiquated?

 

[therealseebs]

I mean, I think the keyboard is just fine. I'm sure they sold a ton of original macbooks and had enough information on the keyboard to make this choice.

And yet, here we are, with people reporting significant pain from this keyboard, which they haven't had with previous keyboards.

You know, this is gonna sound weird, but... What if different people are different sometimes? Could that even be a thing? If so, it could have a lot of implications for Apple's hardware strategy.

 

[SVTM]

I see a few people in this thread arguing about the keyboard but its really not that bad. I've used it all day today and yesterday and I'm already getting used to it even when I have been switching between my 2012 and this one. The only thing I don't like about the keyboard is the left and right arrow keys being the same size. Before they were kinda easy to isolate without looking down but now you can get lost trying to find them.

Honestly for me the trackpad click is more of an irritation than the keyboard, it just feels very soft compared to my 2012 and I wish I could get a better click out of it. I did mess with light, medium, firm settings and none of them feel that different. Maybe it will break in or I will get used to it, as of right now I'm not sure.

The real compromise after two days? MagSafe. I miss it more than I thought I would since I'm constantly switching between sitting and standing desks. Not only is the new cord a pain to plug in but there is no charge indicator on it which sucks when the computer is in sleep mode. It's also a thicker cord with apples signature grippy finish so the chance of yanking this extremely light computer off of a table or desk is high.

I've been looking into buying a cable that is smoother and less of an eyesore but I'm not sure if the one I'm looking at can handle the power coming from the power supply. Anyone in this thread have any knowledge about cables and know if this one will work? http://a.co/aau0pBm

 

[MrGuder]

The real compromise after two days? MagSafe. I miss it more than I thought I would since I'm constantly switching between sitting and standing desks. Not only is the new cord a pain to plug in but there is no charge indicator on it which sucks when the computer is in sleep mode. It's also a thicker cord with apples signature grippy finish so the chance of yanking this extremely light computer off of a table or desk is high.

I just saw this the other day, there is currently a kickstarter called Snapnator that is suppose to bring back the MagSafe. It actually looks pretty good, there is still 41 days left and it's already met it's goal so most likely will happen. There's a video showing it and at $29.00 doesn't seem to be that expensive and delivery is in Jan 2017.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...nap-feature-is-back?ref=checkout_rewards_page

Thanks for your review. I'm on the fence on getting the 15 Macbook Pro just released or going with a refurb 2015. I like that they decreased the weight to just 4 lbs and it's smaller than the 2015 model. Can you tell the difference in weight and width of the laptop and what about the display is it really that much better than the 2015 model?

 

[therealseebs]

I see a few people in this thread arguing about the keyboard but its really not that bad.

Maybe it isn't for you. I have long-term RSI injuries from people telling me "no, that keyboard's not that bad", before I learned not to listen to anyone who goes around telling people that something isn't really hurting them.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

And yet, here we are, with people reporting significant pain from this keyboard, which they haven't had with previous keyboards.

You know, this is gonna sound weird, but... What if different people are different sometimes? Could that even be a thing? If so, it could have a lot of implications for Apple's hardware strategy.

i have no qualms with this. i'm sure some love it some don't.

Why is ergonomic not the word? Is ergonomics antiquated?

because ergonomics is more about usage as pertaining to it's ability to cause injury. i'm not sure if key travel applies.

 

[dugbug]

Maybe it isn't for you. I have long-term RSI injuries from people telling me "no, that keyboard's not that bad", before I learned not to listen to anyone who goes around telling people that something isn't really hurting them.

are we making the argument that light travel keyboards are better or worse for RSI? Im getting confused on this keyboard thing. If I had RSI I would think the angle and hand position on the keyboard is a greater factor than any key travel argument.

 

[Pootmatoot]

Design: Space Grey looks fantastic in person, especially for people that have gotten bored with the same old silver option. The entire laptop is extremely thin compared to previous MBPs yet the computer is silent during light normal day to day tasks.

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The colour looks lovely, but I worry it might suffer the same problem as the Razers, with very similar dark anodised aluminium: slight chips sparkle like stars and are incredibly noticeable.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

are we making the argument that light travel keyboards are better or worse for RSI? Im getting confused on this keyboard thing. If I had RSI I would think the angle and hand position on the keyboard is a greater factor than any key travel argument.

if anything short keyboard travel makes you strike the keys with less force which should be better on your joints

 

[therealseebs]

because ergonomics is more about usage as pertaining to it's ability to cause injury. i'm not sure if key travel applies.

It does. The short key travel is why the keys cause injury. On a keyboard with enough key travel, your finger gets some time to slow down, or there can be some cushioning, before it hits a wall. Low-impact. On this keyboard, if your finger is moving fast enough to type quickly and hitting the keys hard enough to activate them, it's gonna hit a wall. High impact.

 

[PhoneI]

Maybe it isn't for you. I have long-term RSI injuries from people telling me "no, that keyboard's not that bad", before I learned not to listen to anyone who goes around telling people that something isn't really hurting them.

I have had terrible carpal tunnel the last few years and I have absolutely no pain using this keyboard. Kind of wondering why a keyboard with less travel would cause more pain though.

Anyway, after my first full day with the new keyboard, I think its fine. No real concerns at all.
[doublepost=1479259068][/doublepost]

It does. The short key travel is why the keys cause injury. On a keyboard with enough key travel, your finger gets some time to slow down, or there can be some cushioning, before it hits a wall. Low-impact. On this keyboard, if your finger is moving fast enough to type quickly and hitting the keys hard enough to activate them, it's gonna hit a wall. High impact.

I think one way I adjusted quickly to the new keyboard is that I actually apply less pressure when using the new keyboard, compared to the old.

 

[therealseebs]

are we making the argument that light travel keyboards are better or worse for RSI? Im getting confused on this keyboard thing. If I had RSI I would think the angle and hand position on the keyboard is a greater factor than any key travel argument.

Light activation force can be a good thing, although there's some evidence that too-light activation force is bad. But key travel isn't the same thing as activation force. And it's not 100% consistent, different people have different needs, but too-short travel (or too-long!) can absolutely cause injury.

And yes, angle and hand position are also factors. But you can type absolutely perfectly, and if the keyboard causes you injury, you're still screwed.

 

[xmonkey]

I think you should get a 2015 model. You seem to have lots of issues with the 2016.

 

[therealseebs]

I have had terrible carpal tunnel the last few years and I have absolutely no pain using this keyboard. Kind of wondering why a keyboard with less travel would cause more pain though.

Impact.

I think one way I adjusted quickly to the new keyboard is that I actually apply less pressure when using the new keyboard, compared to the old.

Well, I'm not using it right now because it tends to injure me, so I'm not going to be able to do a ton of testing for a while. For the most part, at the speed I type, I'm already typing with close to the minimal pressure I can apply, it's just inertia.
[doublepost=1479259272][/doublepost]

I think you should get a 2015 model. You seem to have lots of issues with the 2016.

I'm actually thinking about it. Originally I dismissed it because of the significant CPU/GPU performance gap, but this is a lot worse than I expected. ... That said, I just saw someone reporting that they got a brand-new 2015 MBP, and it lacked the discrete GPU (!?!?!). I am not sure what to make of that.

So, yeah, I'm seriously considering it at this point. I had vastly underestimated how bad that keyboard would be after half an hour of typing.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

i honestly have never heard of this before. someone should actually post medical evidence

 

[PhoneI]

Impact.



Well, I'm not using it right now because it tends to injure me, so I'm not going to be able to do a ton of testing for a while. For the most part, at the speed I type, I'm already typing with close to the minimal pressure I can apply, it's just inertia.
[doublepost=1479259272][/doublepost]

I'm actually thinking about it. Originally I dismissed it because of the significant CPU/GPU performance gap, but this is a lot worse than I expected. ... That said, I just saw someone reporting that they got a brand-new 2015 MBP, and it lacked the discrete GPU (!?!?!). I am not sure what to make of that.

So, yeah, I'm seriously considering it at this point. I had vastly underestimated how bad that keyboard would be after half an hour of typing.

doesn't sound like this keyboard is for you then. If I was you I would grab an older model. Going forward though you might have a problem because I don't think Apple is going back to old keyboard.

As for performance, I have nothing scientific, but my new Macbook sure feels like it greatly out performs my old one.

 

[therealseebs]

doesn't sound like this keyboard is for you then. If I was you I would grab an older model. Going forward though you might have a problem because I don't think Apple is going back to old keyboard.

Oh, I know I'm on my way out as a Mac user. They've made it abundantly clear that users like me are not of interest. I just thought I could probably make do with this one. I seriously underestimated that keyboard.

 

[Macalway]

It does. The short key travel is why the keys cause injury. On a keyboard with enough key travel, your finger gets some time to slow down, or there can be some cushioning, before it hits a wall. Low-impact. On this keyboard, if your finger is moving fast enough to type quickly and hitting the keys hard enough to activate them, it's gonna hit a wall. High impact.

This absolutely. Extremely important. If you were to chart the force on the joints it would look pretty bad. It's impulse.
This is not complicated, so i'm not going to insult anyones intelligence.

I remember I had a Thinkpad keyboard once (they varied over the years, of course) that was so good, it was like it was typing by itself. It was weird

 

[xmonkey]

I'm actually thinking about it. Originally I dismissed it because of the significant CPU/GPU performance gap, but this is a lot worse than I expected. ... That said, I just saw someone reporting that they got a brand-new 2015 MBP, and it lacked the discrete GPU (!?!?!). I am not sure what to make of that.

So, yeah, I'm seriously considering it at this point. I had vastly underestimated how bad that keyboard would be after half an hour of typing.

Sounds like that person didn't read the spec sheet of what they were ordering. The dGPU model can still be purchased through Apple's refurb store or other retailers if they still have them in stock. Apple no longer sells the dGPU model new on their website.

edit - Should clarify, if Apple has stock of the dGPU refurb they will sell it. Stock varies all the time on that part of their store.

 

[Macalway]

I don't think Apple is going back to old keyboard.

They would if sales lagged, and they listened to their user base instead of Lord Ive.

 

[SVTM]

I just saw this the other day, there is currently a kickstarter called Snapnator that is suppose to bring back the MagSafe. It actually looks pretty good, there is still 41 days left and it's already met it's goal so most likely will happen. There's a video showing it and at $29.00 doesn't seem to be that expensive and delivery is in Jan 2017.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...nap-feature-is-back?ref=checkout_rewards_page

Thanks for your review. I'm on the fence on getting the 15 Macbook Pro just released or going with a refurb 2015. I like that they decreased the weight to just 4 lbs and it's smaller than the 2015 model. Can you tell the difference in weight and width of the laptop and what about the display is it really that much better than the 2015 model?

Thanks I'll keep an eye on that kickstarter. It's a shame it sticks out so far though. I really feel like USB C is the future but I don't feel apple should have taken away such a convenient way to charge. MagSafe, SD card slot, aux jack, and 4 usb c ports would have been the perfect compromise in my opinion.

I didn't have a 2015 but I have used them and it is definitely noticeably smaller than 2015s, compared to my 2012 its like picking up a piece of paper. As far as displays go I've only ever used 2015 displays off and on so I'm probably not qualified to answer how noticeable the difference is day to day.

Maybe it isn't for you. I have long-term RSI injuries from people telling me "no, that keyboard's not that bad", before I learned not to listen to anyone who goes around telling people that something isn't really hurting them.

Thats weird I don't recall telling you or anyone else that the keyboard isn't "hurting you". I did say that I feel most will get used to it fairly quickly, the sales numbers will most likely reflect that in the next few months. Maybe you aren't one of those people and thats fine, perhaps this Macbook Pro isn't for you? Now it sorta seems like you are highjacking the thread to defend the fact that you don't like the keyboard instead of moving on and buying another computer.

 

[PhoneI]

They would if sales lagged, and they listened to their user base instead of Lord Ive.

funny, by Lord Ive I assume you are referring to the man that has designed many of the products that has make Apple one of the most profitable companies that ever existed. Yeah, why should they listen to him?