2016 Macbook Vs 2016 MBP - Your reasons to wait until WWDC?

Discussion in 'MacBook' started by Jobsian, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. Jobsian macrumors 6502a

    Jobsian

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    #1
    Increasing confirmation now that actually yes the 2016 Skylake Macbook is a significant upgrade from 2015, especially the M7, with impressive benchmarks and people describing it as snappier (contrary to a lot of speculation here, lol). And of course the extra battery.

    What is making you wait for the MBP redesign announcement? I'm still holding off but am finding it increasingly difficult to rationalise.
    • Do I need more RAM? No.
    • Better graphics? I can't deny that I'm excited by rumors of Polaris GPUs, but will I realistically need it for anything on a laptop? Not for my use. Unless Polaris makes me interested in notebook gaming again, unlikely though.
    • CPU? This is the part that might make me most interested. What a lot of Skylake naysayers didn't seem to understand is that I'm not looking for a performance boost that suddenly allows me to run resource-intensive apps, just any boost that minimises those annoying pauses, beachballs and blips that affect the quality of your day to day interaction with your notebook. Those make a difference to me. The MBP's CPU will surely help more, but the M7 is looking like a substantial upgrade from last year.
    • SSD - I really wanted 1TB for the MB's 2016 upgrade, but 512GB's enough.
    • Ports - having to carry dongles is annoying.
    • Design - this seems to be the x-factor, with rumors of new hinge designs and a slimmer profile. It'll still be bigger and heavier than the gorgeous MB.

    So overall, yes there are a number of upgrades that could be welcome, but I can't think of any that would justify the increased size and weight. Tempted to hold off until WWDC in case they do something earth-shattering with the MBPs, but I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger on an M7...
     
  2. Serban Suspended

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    #2
    If you dont need more ram, since the mbp will have by default 16, or need more display estate, if maybe they go with 14" and 16" route, then go with the macbook
    In mbp it will be possible to add another port thunderbolt 3 usb-c.
     
  3. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Location:
    Enjoying Better Things
    #3
    Just waiting to see what Apple delivers for the MacBook Pro, my 15" rMBP is now really showing it`s age, my 2014 13" rMBP has written over 15Tb of data on the SSD. As I rely on my systems professionally I don't generally keep them beyond 24 months, the 15" being the exception as Apple have not released a meaningful update in years.

    Don't really agree with the 12" Retina MacBook update being significant, I own the 1.2 and don't see the M5 being significantly faster in real life use, if looking for performance actively cooled systems will always prevail over the passive cooling of the rMB, as ultimately the CPU will throttle down. If the 2016 rMBP fails to impress then I will opt for a second 512 rMb, although I would prefer 1Tb.

    As apple is obsessed with thin & light we can pretty much expect the 2016 13" rMBP not to be too much heavier than the current 12" rMB, equally it will have a vastly more powerful CPU/GPU, more ports, with all the advantages of the rMB; speakers, display, full aluminium construction. Personally I expect the 13" rMB to be in the range of 1.2Kg - 1.3kg. In short the new 13" rMBP will not be significantly larger to heavier than the 12" rMB, however it will be significantly more capable for those of us that need the extra computational performance.

    Biggest advantage of the rMB is the CPU is less likely to throttle and additional battery, little else. For the price point Apple should have incorporated TB3, not save it for another year when they have less to announce at WWDC, just a cheap move on their behalf.

    Q-6
     
  4. MyopicPaideia macrumors 68000

    MyopicPaideia

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Location:
    Trollhättan, Sweden
    #4
    Well, the only reason to wait now, assuming they actually do unvail a new completely redesigned MBP at WWDC, is buyers remorse.

    I am not in this boat as I've been enjoying the rMB for a year already with no regrets or complaints. Just extremely happy computing.

    However, if I had held off for the 2nd gen. rMB, I would definitely be waiting just a couple of months longer for WWDC just to make sure I didn't fall in love with any new MBP before I pulled the trigger.

    IF, big if, there is a radical redesign that sees a non-tapered chassis that is a mm or so thinner than the current MBA and packs the equivalent range of the Skylake processors with multiple TB-3/USB-C ports, LPDDR4 memory, and smaller bezeled 14" and 16" screens fitting in an equal or slighter smaller footprint than the current models, AND Space Grey finish...then even I might be tempted to get one...and would definitely be kicking myself if I had just gotten the Gen 2 rMB.
     
  5. T'hain Esh Kelch macrumors 601

    T'hain Esh Kelch

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Location:
    Denmark
    #5
    I would actually be surprised if the new MBPs offer anything other than TB3 ports, so you may still say hello to dongles. All other ports are on their way out (Mayhaps not HDMI, that is discusseable), so I don't see why they should keep them around. These days Apple is fond of keeping older models for backwards compatibility, and I assume they will do the same here.

    If anything, a mixture of USB-C and TB3 ports, to keep costs down due to the extra controllers, and then thats another upgrade point in the future.
     
  6. magbarn macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    #6
    I just can't bring myself to spend >$3000 right now on a loaded rMBP with 3 year old GPU and CPU. The only thing modern on the rMBP 15 is its SSD. If Apple does the stupid and uses the same type of keyboard as my wife's rMB in the new rMBP, reduced the number of ports, get's rid of magsafe, I'll be forced into buying a leftover rMBP with a big discount as the resellers like B&H usually do when the older models are phased out or starting to look into PC laptops...
     
  7. zhenya macrumors 603

    zhenya

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    #7
    Easy to go from usb-c/Thunderbolt to HDMI so no reason to have one of those that is single-purpose.

    I think they will have 2 Thunderbolt ports on 1 side of the machine (ports must be a very short distance from the controller card) and 1, maybe 2, regular USB ports on the other side? They'd have to have 2 Thunderbolt controllers to have those ports on both sides so...
     
  8. MxNRG, Apr 24, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016

    MxNRG macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    #8
    I've been using my late 2010 Mac Book Air from new, though I was tempted by the 2015 Mac Book, it wasn't a big enough uptick in CPU and the screen is touch on the small side. Now that the 2016 Mac Book is out it would be plain dumb to jump in and get one without seeing what the Pro/Air lines get updated to in less than 8 weeks.
     
  9. ctyrider macrumors 6502a

    ctyrider

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    #9
    I am in the same boat. Very happy with my 1.3Ghz 2015 rMB, which has been my one and only machine. But could be swayed to upgrade this year if new MBP is something special. But it would have to be closer in weight and thinness to the current MBA, rather than current MBP (which is a brick, especially compared to 12" rMB).

    One thing that may push me to upgrade is TB3 port, combined with new 5K 27" Apple Display.. assuming of course Apple releases such thing side by side 2016 MBP, which is far from certain. But an ultrathin and powerful MacBook combined with a 5K display connected via a single cable will be a very powerful combination.

    In any case, I am certainly in no rush to upgrade my 2015 rMB, so will see what WWDC will bring us.
     
  10. Unrealmac1988, Apr 24, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016

    Unrealmac1988 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2015
    #10
    There are 2,5 reasons for me:

    1: no 4k 60 Hz --> the Macbook is NOT future proof for me. I am planning to keep my next MB for about 5 years and I am dead sure that 4k displays will drastically drop in price in the next few years.

    2: only one usb-c, not two

    2,5: 1450€ for the base model is still a ******** of money even for a Macbook. For 1450€ I should miss nothing, and when it comes to the Macbook there sure are the two mentioned things I miss. Especially point 1.

    I think I should have bought the MB for 999€ but not for 1450€

    edit: I wouldn't be so sure that Apple announces anything at WWDC. I have a feeling that they are more and more moving this event to purely hardware based.
     
  11. Gualwer macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    #11
    I was gonna purchase a new Macbook pro, but I think I'm gonna wait and see what changes Apple is making to the MBP. Also, I may not even purchase the new Model, but Im crossing my fingers Apple drop the price on the 2015 models. I'm thinking about purchasing a refurbished MBP.
     
  12. cambookpro macrumors 603

    cambookpro

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    #12
    No Thunderbolt 3 - otherwise I'd be typing this on a rMB.
     
  13. deeddawg macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #13
    Where would you suggest they have placed the Alpine Ridge controller necessary to implement TB3 on Skylake?
    [​IMG]
    https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Retina+MacBook+2016+Teardown/62149
     
  14. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Location:
    Enjoying Better Things
    #14
    Would that not be for Apple to figure? Or do you feel that they are short on resources? Like all business there is a strategy, oddly enough that does not always serve the customer first. If you are happy to settle for less, then corporations such as Apple have ever less incentive to push the boundaries. Second Gen rMB for it`s current price point should have TB3, we as the end users should demand more, not settle for less...

    FWIW Skylake is physically smaller than Broadwell, ipso facto Apple will have gained some space on the MLB
    [​IMG]
    "Cant innovate anymore, my ass!" well it`s beginning to look that way, lets see what WWDC brings...

    Q-6
     
  15. deeddawg macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #15
    The posted image was from the ifixit 2016 rMB teardown, so it includes the Skylake hardware.

    Obviously Apple chose not to include TB3. I don't presume to judge their choice, I expect they have a number of well paid analysts figuring out the cost/benefit factors of how many customers they lose by not including TB3 vs the cost of including it on all the units where the buyer really doesn't care. I can speculate that two factors may have been available logic board space and the additional power consumption required, but the proof is in the pudding so to speak; the non-existence of TB3 in the new rMB shows that someone in Apple decided not to include TB3.

    As one who is claiming Apple should have done otherwise, you bear the onus of showing how and why their decision was wrong, preferably with a solid/detailed explanation to support your allegation.

    Poisoning_the_Well fallacy aside, simple Economics 101 shows that for any pricepoint there will typically be some quantity of potential consumers who think the item is over priced and won't buy it. The balancing act is to price the item at the point where the seller maximizes revenue, leaving some unhappy and others happy with the price/benefit equation. Generally speaking, any company that prices their stuff such that no customers think the price is too high is f'king their employees and their shareholders.

    Voting with your wallet has far more impact than posting to a forum.

    As stated above, the picture is of the 2016 logic board which includes your smaller Skylake processor.
    Now please show where you'd make room on the board for the Alpine Ridge stuff.
     
  16. MyopicPaideia, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016

    MyopicPaideia macrumors 68000

    MyopicPaideia

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Location:
    Trollhättan, Sweden
    #16
    Well, post a picture of the 2015 board side by side with the 2016 board so we can see what they did with the extra room, as @Queen6 has shown, Skylake is about half the size of Broadwell.

    Second, this isn't a court of law, I really get miffed when this silly argument gets thrown out there. It is such a cop out because you think that you don't have to explain/defend/prove your opinion, you just have to challenge him to do so. You guys are both speculating, not trying to establish something beyond a reasonable doubt. You are equally bound by your opinion that Apple could not in fact fit the Alpine Ridge controller in there. Show us why not then?

    My own speculative opinion is that they could possibly have included it, but chose not to do so, because they want their pro line to be the first to come out with TB3 compatibility, and they wanted a long enough differentiation between the MBP and the MB. The 2017 MB will have it because not only will the packaging engineering be easier and cheaper, but also because it will just be a "me too" catch up feature at that point instead of a headliner.

    I think @Queen6 is right to be miffed at the lack of features in the update. Me I am ok with it as I wasn't going to update anyway.
     
  17. Queen6, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016

    Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Location:
    Enjoying Better Things
    #17
    Well that`s the crux, some will just happily follow, while others will choose to question, we are clearly diametrically opposed on that one. I can equally speculate that Apple, wants to save on cost and increase it`s margin on this product. It also allows Apple launch TB3 with the upcoming 2016 MacBook Pro`s, saves something to rave about at WWDC 2017, as no doubt by then TB3 in the MacBook will be the most "amazing" thing Apple has ever accomplished.

    The 12" rMB would obviously benefit from TB3 given the limitation of a single port, therefore the more bandwidth the merrier. btw opinions and allegations are rather different subject matter, little too invested perhaps?

    Price-point certainly doesn't intimidate, nor does it represent good value of money, my own opinion is that Apple should have introduced TB3 or dropped the price-point, an opinion which I am fully entitled to have, as are you to counter. Apple no doubt delivers financially, however as you put it, Apple also f'king some of it customers across various product lines.

    Well right now that`s the plan, as there absolutely nothing compelling about the 2016 rMB to warrant upgrading my current 2015 1.2. if Apple deliver similar for the MacBook Pro, same logic will be applied to my 13" & 15" Retina`s. My computers are a key function of business, I buy what works, what makes sense, I expect premium products to live up to that, the more that don't will only result in further mediocrity, a point worth considering.

    Seriously, do people even expect a sensible response. Apple has innumerable resources I doubt that much is outside their reach, they are just drip feeding the technology, after all why not if if people are willing to upgrade year on year with little to no meaningful benefit. In short Apple could do a llot more, equally I don't see that they have any real incentive, maybe some are just easily pleased.

    On the flip-side , if you can post the component list & board schematic, you might be closer to getting an answer...

    Q-6
    --- Post Merged, Apr 25, 2016 ---
    I like the 12" Retina MacBook and replying on mine now while on a business trip in Vietnam. I would have like to have seen something a little more substantial from Apple, nothing earth shattering. The more I look a the numbers it`s no value to update this 1.2 512 to the 2016 model, unless you really like Pink.

    I also tend to agree that Apple wants to spotlight the MBP for 2016, equally I fear we may well see little more than a change of chassis, so ports may be reduced and no tangible benefit on battery life as they strive for ever thiner & lighter.

    Anyway we will see what WWDC brings, Apple may surprise, equally the Windows OEM`s are starting to produce some very nice hardware, W10 is far from perfect, yet not as bad a many would portray. In many respects the lines are blurring with both OS`s having positives and negatives, with neither having a significant advantage.

    Q-6
     
  18. deeddawg, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016

    deeddawg macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #18
    If you're going to jump into a discussion, particularly where you're going to chastise someone, do try to actually do so on actual things they've written instead of something else.

    I didn't state that Apple couldn't have incorporated the controller. I asked a question of where they'd put it. I was curious if Queen6's opinion was actually based on anything.

    BTW, I'd already provided the iFixit link to the 2016 teardown. I'd figured it'd be trivial if someone wanted to grab the 2015 teardown for comparison, but here you go:

    https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Retina+Macbook+2015+Teardown/39841
     
  19. MyopicPaideia, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016

    MyopicPaideia macrumors 68000

    MyopicPaideia

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Location:
    Trollhättan, Sweden
    #19
    PS, here's the 2015 logic board. Looks like they didn't do much with the packaging really, just put the smaller Skylake Module in place of the larger Broadwell piece.

    image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    Actually seems like there is the opportunity to tighten things up in the middle of the board when one takes into account that it seems like every single chipset there seems to have reduced in size a bit year over year. Is there enough there to fit in the whole Alpine Ridge controller? Your opinion is as valid as mine, being that we both are not mechanical or electrical engineers in the field.
     
  20. deeddawg macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #20
    I tend to deal with what's extant and make my decisions based on that. A given product is what it is and it either fits my needs sufficiently to justify purchase or it doesn't. I don't really get into what any company should or shouldn't do; I always thought armchair quarterbacking as pretty silly since nobody out here has insight to the underlying information driving the decisions.

    I too see no reason to upgrade my 2015 1.2/512. That said, TB3 honestly wouldn't have made any difference to that decision.
     
  21. wangkom macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    #21
    --- Post Merged, Apr 25, 2016 ---
    You are kidding me right?


    http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2015/03/macbook-12-interior-100572319-orig.png
     
  22. KPOM macrumors G5

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    #22
    Well, making the logic board bigger would have reduced the battery life. It also would have required a slight redesign to the case. My guess is Apple knows that Intel is building Thunderbolt 3 into Kaby Lake, and will incorporate it into the 2017 MacBook. By then it likely will have released rMBPs that support Thunderbolt 3, as well.
     
  23. joscejrod macrumors 6502

    joscejrod

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    #23
    Of course. Thunderbolt 3 is the perfect connection for pro users. Apple is going to introduce it with a new macbook pro, not in a macbook silent upgrade...

    The question for me is... "Is going apple to release only the big new macbook pro(like they did with the first retina model in 2012 and then, some months later (after selling some 12" macbooks), or will the put all cards on the table, releasing both models??
     
  24. toddzrx macrumors 6502a

    toddzrx

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    #24
    Agreed. No way would Apple release TB3 on the MB first; it's a Pro feature all the way. It'll then filter its way into all the other machines over the next year.

    Given how long we've waited to see new Pros, it'd be nice if Apple dumps all of them on us at once. Heck, I think they need to significantly update every computer they make, except of course for the MB and the half year old iMacs.
     
  25. deeddawg, Apr 26, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016

    deeddawg macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #25
    Apparently I need to spell this out for you.

    Making a change to an existing logic board has little impact on overall production. That sort of change can be slipstreamed into the rest of the existing production tooling and fabrication processes with relatively little cost or impact to production.

    Resizing a logic board in something as tightly packed as the rMB would likely create a cascade of secondary changes. At first glance they'd have to change the battery shape and chassis layout slightly. Even slight changes to these would entail retooling those supply/production lines as well as creating an additional slew of repair/refurbishment parts requirements to keep on hand for years. In manufacturing that typically entails not insignificant costs, as well as furthering the lead-times necessary for the design decisions to be finalized. It can often take months to make substantive changes that far back into the supply chain.

    Thus, it's easier, faster, and substantially less expensive to make changes that hold the logic board shape/size constant.

    Are you caught up now?

    (Within reason, of course, Apple can do whatever they choose to. Clearly they chose not to add TB3. Maybe it'd have been a simple logic board adjustment. Maybe it'd have required greater changes to the internals. If the latter, then it's possible they really didn't have an expectation of enough sales difference over TB3 to justify the costs. I suspect a very small portion of potential rMB buyers can even spell TB3 let alone tell you why they might want it.)
     

Share This Page