2017 iMac Internal Drive Question

[ChopinGuy]

So I'm considering getting the 27" i7 512ssd iMac configuration through B&H (they have it for $2,499 no tax/free shipping).

My intention would be to install a 1TB SSD internally along with the 512GB NVMe Apple ssd.

Question is, once installed, can I configure the iMac to boot from the 1TB SSD and not the NVMe?

I'd be using the machine for video editing, and would rather host footage on that high speed NVMe. The 1TB SSD would be fine for a boot/system drive.

Thanks in advance...

 

[mreg376]

So your plan is to break open your new iMac, void the warranty and install a second SSD? That's your plan for your brand new machine? Then I guess it doesn't matter to you that B&H, an excellent store with great prices, doesn't take computer returns for refund under any circumstances.

 

[old mac]

So your plan is to break open your new iMac, void the warranty and install a second SSD? That's your plan for your brand new machine? Then I guess it doesn't matter to you that B&H, an excellent store with great prices, doesn't take computer returns for refund under any circumstances.

Why not answer the question instead of giving a good reason not to buy the iMac.

 

[Krayzkat]

yes you can change the boot drive to the new one.

 

[mreg376]

I wasn't implying that he shouldn't buy it, just that he shouldn't buy it and immediately void the warranty. Maybe he didn't know that would void the warranty. Otherwise external storage is the obvious answer.

 

[old mac]

Question is, once installed, can I configure the iMac to boot from the 1TB SSD and not the NVMe?

, System Preference, Startup Disk.
If MacOS works the same as OSX, this will change your default startup drive.

 

[ChopinGuy]

So your plan is to break open your new iMac, void the warranty and install a second SSD? That's your plan for your brand new machine? Then I guess it doesn't matter to you that B&H, an excellent store with great prices, doesn't take computer returns for refund under any circumstances.

I wasn't implying that he shouldn't buy it, just that he shouldn't buy it and immediately void the warranty. Maybe he didn't know that would void the warranty. Otherwise external storage is the obvious answer.

I appreciate the candor, but this isn't what I asked. Nor is external storage the obvious answer. Fact of the matter is any external storage solution that performs at the speed of the NVMe SSD from Apple is VASTLY more expensive than the $270 cost of a 1TB 860EVO SSD to use as boot/system drive - leaving me the NVMe SSD to use solely as a media host drive (raw video files) where a drive of that performance capability really shines.

So all that being said - I am fully aware of the risk/drawbacks to doing this to a brand new machine...

 

[mreg376]

Have you considered a 1TB SSD upgrade for the iMac? I know it's not cheap, but it's cheaper than a TB3 external drive, a more elegant solution certainly, and you can use a "relatively" dirt cheap external drive for backup. I recently made a similar decision, as I believe I'll be keep my new iMac for a while (although probably not as long as I kept my 2007...) AND you will still have the option at adding TB3 storage eventually as the prices will inevitably come down. AND you preserve your warranty, which may also save you a lot of money in the future. Just some thoughts...

 

[ChopinGuy]

Have you considered a 1TB SSD upgrade for the iMac? I know it's not cheap, but it's cheaper than a TB3 external drive, a more elegant solution certainly, and you can use a "relatively" dirt cheap external drive for backup. I recently made a similar decision, as I believe I'll be keep my new iMac for a while (although probably not as long as I kept my 2007...) AND you will still have the option at adding TB3 storage eventually as the prices will inevitably come down. AND you preserve your warranty, which may also save you a lot of money in the future. Just some thoughts...

I had considered this, and still might get the 1TB SSD for more future proofing. What I wasn't clear in expressing was part of the motivation in adding the second drive is maximizing performance in a video centric work flow. It's really best to have your system system drive and media host drive separated. Hence why I like these 2017 iMacs for the potential to add a SATA SSD when ordered with Apples NVMe SSD. With system and media drive separated you really get a lot better performance with video work.

So that's the angle I'm approaching this from. External storage wise I'd really only consider that for archiving footage...

 

[mreg376]

I see. And for that speed you need a second SSD or a ridiculously expensive TB3 drive. I think you need a Mac Pro.

 

[ChopinGuy]

I see. And for that speed you need a second SSD or a ridiculously expensive TB3 drive. I think you need a Mac Pro.

Yeah I've been toying with all options at this point. I have a monster PC at work for video editing (HP Z workstation/Titan Xp/Multiple SSDs/Multiple PCIE SSDs/etc.), but love the MacOS in my personal use. Unfortunately the 'trash-in-tosh' / 'trash-can-pro' isn't something I would dump any money into, and while the the 4.1/5.1 MacPros are still good machines if you upgrade them appropriately; they are severely limited in their I/O speed capability due to previous generation SATA II, and PCIE protocols.

Thus where I arrive at cracking open a new iMac as it is the only machine with the capability to add a second internal drive with decent speed (SATA III), and not having to spend a ton on external high speed storage. Even the newer iMac Pros would cause me to have to evaluate external storage options.

 

[mreg376]

It should not a surprise to any person in the business of video that use of two separate drives has a speed advantage over a single drive. Apple should offer, at least in its iMac Pros, that if you get an pure-SSD as your primary drive you have the option of adding a second drive, which is tiny in size.

 

[Fishrrman]

I don't think it's wise to break open ANY brand-new Mac to "upgrade" it for ANY reason.
What if something goes wrong? The warranty will be void and the unit will be un-returnable.
But that's just me.

OP:
You're aware that the internal SSD drive used on the iMac is an "Apple-proprietary" design, and that you can't buy a replacement from any source other than Apple?
And that they WON'T sell you one as a "standalone unit"?

That means that any additional drive you install will be a SATA-3 type, much slower than the factory-installed internal.

If 500gb "isn't enough" for you, and you want a fast alternative, I'd suggest this:
- get the iMac with the factory-installed 512gb SSD
and then...
- get one of the new thunderbolt3 external drives -- they are MUCH faster than USB3 (but also quite expensive).

or...

Just buy an iMac with a 1tb internal SSD and be done with it.

 

[ChopinGuy]

I don't think it's wise to break open ANY brand-new Mac to "upgrade" it for ANY reason.
What if something goes wrong? The warranty will be void and the unit will be un-returnable.
But that's just me.

OP:
You're aware that the internal SSD drive used on the iMac is an "Apple-proprietary" design, and that you can't buy a replacement from any source other than Apple?
And that they WON'T sell you one as a "standalone unit"?

That means that any additional drive you install will be a SATA-3 type, much slower than the factory-installed internal.

If 500gb "isn't enough" for you, and you want a fast alternative, I'd suggest this:
- get the iMac with the factory-installed 512gb SSD
and then...
- get one of the new thunderbolt3 external drives -- they are MUCH faster than USB3 (but also quite expensive).

or...

Just buy an iMac with a 1tb internal SSD and be done with it.

Thanks Fishrrman - there was a lot to sift through in the thread, but we had been over most this.

My whole purpose is to have two independent drives in one machine for video editing where you want to host your footage on a drive that IS NOT your system drive.

No one really needs a system drive that performs at the speed of the Apple NVMe SSD (though nice to have), but where it shines is for media applications. A SATA III SSD is plenty snappy for a system drive. And yes I know the Apple NVMe drives are proprietary.

Hence the thought to order the 27" iMac with the NVMe SSD, and then you still have the ability add the second drive with the SATA III connection. Simply getting the 1TB NVMe does nothing for drive separation. And the $270 for a 1TB 860EVO is a heck of a lot cheaper than any TB3 high speed external storage options.

All this weighted against the obvious drawback - you void your warranty opening up the machine...

 

[J.Gallardo]

Thanks Fishrrman - there was a lot to sift through in the thread, but we had been over most this.

My whole purpose is to have two independent drives in one machine for video editing where you want to host your footage on a drive that IS NOT your system drive.

No one really needs a system drive that performs at the speed of the Apple NVMe SSD (though nice to have), but where it shines is for media applications. A SATA III SSD is plenty snappy for a system drive. And yes I know the Apple NVMe drives are proprietary.

Hence the thought to order the 27" iMac with the NVMe SSD, and then you still have the ability add the second drive with the SATA III connection. Simply getting the 1TB NVMe does nothing for drive separation. And the $270 for a 1TB 860EVO is a heck of a lot cheaper than any TB3 high speed external storage options.

All this weighted against the obvious drawback - you void your warranty opening up the machine...

...you void your warranty, and don't get better performance! The bottleneck is SATA III ; usb 3 is faster. So you'll get same performance with a USB 3 external SATA III SSD.
By the way: if iMac is not designed to have an alien SSD into body... Will SATA III be easily accesible? Is iMac prepared to add an internal SSD?
Being in the doubt, and not gaining speed, an external SATA III SSD is the cheap & logic way.
If you want to squeeze SATA III performance, choose a case with USB 3.1 gen 2 interface (with UASP protocol). Will be 30$ to add to your 860EVO, and performance will be the SAME.

 

[tubeexperience]

You can go into Setting > Startup Disk and choose which drive to boot from.

So your plan is to break open your new iMac, void the warranty and install a second SSD? That's your plan for your brand new machine? Then I guess it doesn't matter to you that B&H, an excellent store with great prices, doesn't take computer returns for refund under any circumstances.

I wasn't implying that he shouldn't buy it, just that he shouldn't buy it and immediately void the warranty. Maybe he didn't know that would void the warranty. Otherwise external storage is the obvious answer.

...you void your warranty, and don't get better performance! The bottleneck is SATA III ; usb 3 is faster. So you'll get same performance with a USB 3 external SATA III SSD.
By the way: if iMac is not designed to have an alien SSD into body... Will SATA III be easily accesible? Is iMac prepared to add an internal SSD?
Being in the doubt, and not gaining speed, an external SATA III SSD is the cheap & logic way.
If you want to squeeze SATA III performance, choose a case with USB 3.1 gen 2 interface (with UASP protocol). Will be 30$ to add to your 860EVO, and performance will be the SAME.

It doesn't void the warranty.

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act

 

[mreg376]

It doesn't void the warranty.

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act

So authoritative, and yet so wrong.

Breaking open the case does void the warranty. Magnuson-Moss doesn't give a consumer the right to do whatever they want to a product and still demand warranty repair. The law does a lot of good things for consumers, but the relevant part is that it prevents a manufacturer from requiring that a consumer use its branded products for USER-SERVICEABLE items, such as, for example, user-expandable memory. The manufacturer decides what is user-serviceable, not the consumer. You don't like their policy as to what is user-serviceable, don't buy the product.

 

[ChopinGuy]

You can go into Setting > Startup Disk and choose which drive to boot from.







It doesn't void the warranty.

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act

As already stated here that is unequivocally wrong - opening an iMac (i.e. removing the screen to access internals) voids the warranty...end of story...

 

[tubeexperience]

...you void your warranty, and don't get better performance! The bottleneck is SATA III ; usb 3 is faster. So you'll get same performance with a USB 3 external SATA III SSD.
By the way: if iMac is not designed to have an alien SSD into body... Will SATA III be easily accesible? Is iMac prepared to add an internal SSD?
Being in the doubt, and not gaining speed, an external SATA III SSD is the cheap & logic way.
If you want to squeeze SATA III performance, choose a case with USB 3.1 gen 2 interface (with UASP protocol). Will be 30$ to add to your 860EVO, and performance will be the SAME.

So authoritative, and yet so wrong.

Breaking open the case does void the warranty. Magnuson-Moss doesn't give a consumer the right to do whatever they want to a product and still demand warranty repair. The law does a lot of good things for consumers, but the relevant part is that it prevents a manufacturer from requiring that a consumer use its branded products for USER-SERVICEABLE items, such as, for example, user-expandable memory. The manufacturer decides what is user-serviceable, not the consumer. You don't like their policy as to what is user-serviceable, don't buy the product.

So authoritative, and yet so wrong.

Breaking open the case does void the warranty. Magnuson-Moss doesn't give a consumer the right to do whatever they want to a product and still demand warranty repair. The law does a lot of good things for consumers, but the relevant part is that it prevents a manufacturer from requiring that a consumer use its branded products for USER-SERVICEABLE items, such as, for example, user-expandable memory. The manufacturer decides what is user-serviceable, not the consumer. You don't like their policy as to what is user-serviceable, don't buy the product.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

Straight from the FTC:

The Federal Trade Commission staff has sent warning letters to six major companies that market and sell automobiles, cellular devices, and video gaming systems in the United States.

The letters warn that FTC staff has concerns about the companies’ statements that consumers must use specified parts or service providers to keep their warranties intact. Unless warrantors provide the parts or services for free or receive a waiver from the FTC, such statements generally are prohibited by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, a law that governs consumer product warranties. Similarly, such statements may be deceptive under the FTC Act.

 

[mreg376]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

Straight from the FTC:

The Federal Trade Commission staff has sent warning letters to six major companies that market and sell automobiles, cellular devices, and video gaming systems in the United States.

The letters warn that FTC staff has concerns about the companies’ statements that consumers must use specified parts or service providers to keep their warranties intact. Unless warrantors provide the parts or services for free or receive a waiver from the FTC, such statements generally are prohibited by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, a law that governs consumer product warranties. Similarly, such statements may be deceptive under the FTC Act.

Ummm, if you read what you just wrote, it has nothing to do with a consumer breaking open a product and tinkering with it to try to change its properties or design. If you don't understand what YOU are writing, I don't expect that you'll understand what anyone else is saying.

 

[tubeexperience]

Ummm, if you read what you just wrote, it has nothing to do with a consumer breaking open a product and tinkering with it to try to change its properties or design. If you don't understand what YOU are writing, I don't expect that you'll understand what anyone else is saying.

It said right there that unless Apple is going to provide free parts or services, the warranty is not voided.

So, unless I can go to the Apple Store and have Apple install an SSD for me for free, Apple cannot void my warranty if I do it myself.

 

[J.Gallardo]

(F**k warranty).

- Prepared kits to install an internal SATA SSD in iMac are for iMacs with prior SATA disk installed.
- I doubt iMac models with PCI-e SSD are prepared to hold another SSD more into case, and (more important) if SATA III interface is there and ready to use.
- Even if install goes perfect (and warranty keeps valid), the cost & inconveniences clearly surpass advantages, compared to having an external SATA SSD through USB (SSD+case/wire). Performance is the same.
- In fact, the only advantage is you don't see your added SSD, and can move your iMac around forgettin' about accessory disk. (Oh, yes: and 1 more spare port...). On the other hand, if some day SSD fails or you want to change it for a newer one, you'll have to open again your iMac.

 

[mreg376]

It said right there that unless Apple is going to provide free parts or services, the warranty is not voided.

So, unless I can go to the Apple Store and have Apple install an SSD for me for free, Apple cannot void my warranty if I do it myself.

You remain incorrect. If Apple tells you up front, which they do, that replacing the drive or adding a second drive is not a user-upgradeable option, then they can and will void your warranty if you do it yourself or have it done by an unauthorized service provider. And they can charge you for doing it for you. Live in a dream world if you like. I know many lawyers who would love to take your money suing Apple on your misguided theory that you can do anything you want to your computer and Apple is still obliged to keep it running for free.
[doublepost=1527947134][/doublepost]

(F**k warranty).

- Prepared kits to install an internal SATA SSD in iMac are for iMacs with prior SATA disk installed.
- I doubt iMac models with PCI-e SSD are prepared to hold another SSD more into case, and (more important) if SATA III interface is there and ready to use.
- Even if install goes perfect (and warranty keeps valid), the cost & inconveniences clearly surpass advantages, compared to having an external SATA SSD through USB (SSD+case/wire). Performance is the same.
- In fact, the only advantage is you don't see your added SSD, and can move your iMac around forgettin' about accessory disk. (Oh, yes: and 1 more spare port...). On the other hand, if some day SSD fails or you want to change it for a newer one, you'll have to open again your iMac.

Good advice. As for the warranty, if one cares about it, it is gone once you open your iMac no matter how the install goes. This is not a Windows ATX case made to be opened and closed, it is a sealed unit. The best thing to do is to save the $169 you could spend on Applecare, there's a good chance any major defects would show up in the first year, and then the warranty is over anyway. But hey, anyone who wants to spend thousands and then void their warranty on day one is certainly entitled to do so. Personally, I like your solution better, and especially with TB3 now there is no sacrifice in speed.

 

[tubeexperience]

You remain incorrect. If Apple tells you up front, which they do, that replacing the drive or adding a second drive is not a user-upgradeable option, then they can and will void your warranty if you do it yourself or have it done by an unauthorized service provider. And they can charge you for doing it for you. Live in a dream world if you like. I know many lawyers who would love to take your money suing Apple on your misguided theory that you can do anything you want to your computer and Apple is still obliged to keep it running for free.

Show me where the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act said that it doesn't apply to "non user-replaceable parts" (whatever that means).

...or are you saying that if Apple breaks the law, take away your rights, and walk all over you, you are okay with that because you love Apple

 

[ChopinGuy]

Show me where the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act said that it doesn't apply to "non user-replaceable parts" (whatever that means).

...or are you saying that if Apple breaks the law, take away your rights, and walk all over you, you are okay with that because you love Apple

Show me where the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act said that it doesn't apply to "non user-replaceable parts" (whatever that means).

...or are you saying that if Apple breaks the law, take away your rights, and walk all over you, you are okay with that because you love Apple

You can beat the Magnuson-Moss drum all you want, but it's empty keyboard dribble at this point. For someone who's a member of this forum perhaps you've missed what is probably HUNDREDS of threads over the years confirming the fact that modifying an Apple machine past the Apple intended design VOIDS the warranty. Or perhaps you also missed the prominent retailers like iFixit, MacSales, and prominent tech reviewers who have all confirmed this COUNTLESS times in their product information and reviews.