2018 Macbook Pro purchase opinions...

alaska_av8r

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 31, 2019
4
0
Memphis TN
I am looking for opinions/thoughts etc on purchasing a new macbook pro. First off let me say that I have an iPhone and iWatch but that pretty much sums up my Apple experience. So basically none None.....

I do NEED a new laptop for personal use. I am a self trained pc sort-of-nerd, I get into all sorts of stuff CAD, photography, videography, web development, light programming, databases etc. And about every 4-5 years I buy a new pc, usually a laptop. When I do buy I generally buy very close if not the top end at the time, best processor, most ram, large drives etc.....so I do spend money to get what I want within reason. My latest craze I am concentrating on is videography and photography and I also plan to begin learning IOS app development etc.

I have had friends that have had apple desktop and laptops and I know they used to be considered pretty much bullet proof and excelled at video/photography production and have always been curious about them. So at this point I find that I WANT a macbook pro. I know dollar for dollar the Dell XPS 15 will be about $1,000 cheaper for a similar configuration but I WANT a macbook pro.

I have been reading quite a bit about the latest Macbooks and here are my concerns. The i9 Intel processor and its heating issue worry me a bit since along with water, heat can drastically reduce the life of a laptop, not to mention it may be uncomfortable to hold.... yes I use a laptop as a laptop in my lap 90% of the time.

I don't know what the older keyboard everyone liked was like so I don't have anything to base upon, so I would likely never notice the difference, BUT if the older one was that good then I don't want to miss out.

I also am frustrated by the lack of older ports....maybe.... I don't like the idea of dongles, every single laptop I have owned the charging port socket was the first thing to go (come loose from the keyboard). But as far as peripherals I currently use a bluetooth mouse. I am not sure if I would have to use a dongle with a mouse or if there is a selection that would bluetooth to the laptop without a dongle. Otherwise I could tolerate using a dongle for other devices....I think....

I have read some discussions on folks that are hoping Apple will do something to correct these real/perceived faults with the macbook pro with their next release, so here is what I am asking. I would like input from those of you that own the new macbook, and/or are really familiar with Apple's past to provide a bit of advice, thoughts or whatever you want to call it.

I know some of the advice would be speculation, but I do not plan to wait a year to buy a new laptop. I would wait at most maybe a few months. I would also especially like to hear from someone that has the new one, and has had or still has an older one, to provide some perspective between the two. Preferably someone that tends to push the new one to its limits.

Here are some topics I'd like opinions on.... based on past experience with Apple....

What do you think the odds are there will be a re-worked macbook pro this year? And if so when? What items on my list do you think they will address?

Should I even consider dropping back to the i7 processor (something I hate doing) to avoid the overheating. Would i notice that much of a difference. Or is the heating issue with the i9 occurring infrequently enough that it shouldn't be a problem, for the life of me I can't figure out how updated software would cure the problem, seems to me its an architecture issue but i'm not a computer engineer.

I am somewhat hesitant to drop $5000 on a macbook with these issues, or are these issues more internet squeaky wheel type of thing.

Almost forgot, I know I will have to get new software for some of the programs I use, but for some of my old programs that don't have an Apple version I will be running bootcamp with Win10. So on my new macbook I will be running two operating systems plus the other files. I initially thought the 1tb ssd hardrive would be enough until I did the math. I am not sure how large IOS is but I expect Win10 will likely be pretty large as well....thoughts...

so to summarize I am looking at:
1. macbook pro i9
2. macbook pro i7
3. Dell XPS
4. Wait a few months

Thank you in advance for any input you can provide, and don't hesitate to point out anything I may have missed.....

thanks
tim
 

Howard2k

macrumors 68030
Mar 10, 2016
2,732
1,982
The current generations have some problems, and it's hard to gauge how significant a percentage of machines are affected. Certainly it's too many for me to risk it, but my current machine is working great.

As for storage, I would be hard pressed to pay the Apple SSD rates. I use a 256GB SSD, NAS, and external SSDs. The question is how much data do you need accessible at all times and at SSD speeds? Can you get buy carrying just a subset of data and accessing the rest either via wifi, VPN, or external drive?

In all honesty I would either wait, or buy a Lenovo. But I've spent lots of time working with computers and these days for my home computer I want something hassle free and reliable. I don't like my odds with the current ones. At the same time, I don't have a burning need either.

I like the look of the quad core 13". I know you're talking about the 15", and that's a monster. If you do go ahead then I would make some lists of tests that you can perform to try to verify whether you are affected by the current issues (major ones are keyboard, T2, audio) and then also I would buy 3 years of AppleCare (not AppleCare+). Then I'd work the machine hard in the few 14 days to try to replicate the issues, and after that rely on AppleCare. It seems that the i7 is far better value than the i9.

I suspect there will not be an update this year. I don't believe that there are newer relevant CPUs coming from Intel so would Apple release a new MBPro without a good bump in CPU? I doubt it. But they might do if the intent is to resolve other issues such as the keyboard, perhaps a T3 chip etc. So looking at Intel's roadmap I would guess not, but looking at Apple's current MBPro issues, I hope so.
 
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sosumi99

macrumors 6502
Oct 27, 2003
348
284
Given your interests and experience, I would suggest you stay away from Apple's laptops altogether.

There are many things nice about MacBook Pros, but there are some real issues with the current design (the keyboard, TouchBar, absurd storage options, ports, etc) that Apple is not likely to address, at least not in the 2019 iteration. Yes, you do hear a lot of complaints, but Apple has a reputation for not backing down from certain design decisions it has committed to, regardless of how much customers complain. This is not necessarily mere bull-headedness. I'm sure they have plenty of data telling them that these design decisions do work for a large enough segment of the user base. Apple's tradition of refusing to "listen" to their customers is both a weakness and a strength -- right now it's more of a weakness.

While Apple did lead the industry at one point with their laptop hardware design, those days are long gone. Presently I stay with Macs largely due to software that isn't found on other platforms -- there are still more independent software developers on the platform who care and design beautiful programs that don't exist on Windows or Linux and make my life easier and help me get work done.

Given your uses ("CAD, photography, videography, web development, light programming, databases") and your concern about performance, you will definitely find a better machine for you from other vendors. Since you've not been on the Mac platform before, you won't miss the niceties that MacOS and Mac-specific program provide anyway.

The one thing that gives me pause is your interest in iOS programming. That would require a Mac, but you can definitely do iOS programming on a cheap MacBook Air -- I did so for almost a decade. So perhaps the solution for you is to buy a nice PC laptop and supplement it with a cheap, used MacBook Air to explore iOS programming with.
 
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TGM85

macrumors member
Aug 29, 2005
71
66
I don't know what the older keyboard everyone liked was like so I don't have anything to base upon, so I would likely never notice the difference, BUT if the older one was that good then I don't want to miss out.

I also am frustrated by the lack of older ports....maybe.... I don't like the idea of dongles, every single laptop I have owned the charging port socket was the first thing to go (come loose from the keyboard). But as far as peripherals I currently use a bluetooth mouse. I am not sure if I would have to use a dongle with a mouse or if there is a selection that would bluetooth to the laptop without a dongle. Otherwise I could tolerate using a dongle for other devices....I think....

I have read some discussions on folks that are hoping Apple will do something to correct these real/perceived faults with the macbook pro with their next release, so here is what I am asking. I would like input from those of you that own the new macbook, and/or are really familiar with Apple's past to provide a bit of advice, thoughts or whatever you want to call it.

I know some of the advice would be speculation, but I do not plan to wait a year to buy a new laptop. I would wait at most maybe a few months. I would also especially like to hear from someone that has the new one, and has had or still has an older one, to provide some perspective between the two. Preferably someone that tends to push the new one to its limits.
Have you considered looking around for a 2015 MacBook Pro? They are still more than capable devices. Rock solid machines with all the features you seem to want (ports, keyboard). You can even upgrade the SSD yourself, something you can't do with a 2018 MBP.

2015 MBPs retain their value really well, so if you wind up not liking the macOS experience, you can resell the machine and recoup most (if not all) of your money.
 

alaska_av8r

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 31, 2019
4
0
Memphis TN
All good points to consider and I am putting thought into each suggestion you folks make, No I haven’t considered any MacBooks older than 2018. in the PC world I would never do that since technology changes so fast, I always tend to buy top end components to help hold off obsolescence as long as possible. My current laptop is 6 + yrs old running windows 7 and is still fast for its age but looks like it was run over by a truck....lol. Funny thing is that I bought it with intentions of upgrading components but never did, it will end up getting handed down when I buy a new one.
 

LogicalApex

macrumors 6502
Nov 13, 2015
494
434
A lot of your questions are hashed out fairly well in the threads that have been popping up since the current crop of MacBooks have went on sale. As a person who recently made a similar jump I'll share my two cents, but I can only speak from my vantage point and you'll be left to evaluate what is best for you.

I picked up a 2018 15" MBP in July and I've been very happy with it as a replacement for my T530 that I had for the last 5 years. The Lenovo is built like a tank so it stood up extremely well over the last 5 years with no major failures and only wear and tear. The biggest problem I had with it was battery life. It kept its ~3 hours of battery life from new consistently as I'm very good about keeping a battery healthy (and I had 4 spares for when I needed more power). I evaluated the Lenovo X1 Carbon and ended up with the MBP after hashing it all out.

I have only had one issue with the MBP that I considered a fluke. One of my USB C ports went out and refused to charge the laptop after about 3 weeks and Apple swapped it for another Brand New In Box in September and I haven't had an issue since. The machine is performant, lightweight and has long battery life so it serves all of my needs. It also my daily driver and I'm still not regretting my choice to pick it up.

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of buying a 2015 MBP as some here have suggested. The furthest I'd go back is 2017 and even then I'd be cautious. Apple hardware tends to sell at a premium and buying 4 year old technology at the prices I've seen floating around is a bit silly IMHO. Especially since users are generally recommending you buy these older devices in search of a sense of reliability that hasn't proven in any independent fashion.

I agree the dongle stuff isn't all that exciting, but it isn't all that much of a problem either. It is more manufactured than anything as users tend to be very vocal about Apple's design decisions than other brands. The port I was most unhappy losing when transitioning from my Lenovo was Ethernet honestly. The dongle I picked up has Ethernet as well as legacy USB A that I throw in my bag for when I need these. Keep in mind you'll gain some nice bonuses from Apple going USB C in the way they did. You can charge from any port on the laptop and you can treat them all as equal. Including putting external monitors into any available slot. Coupled with USB C being the future I am not very bothered in this area. In the not too distant future we'll be able to plug our phones or laptops in to charge in the airport without needing to yank out a wall wart or carry 5 cables.

I run Windows in a VMWare Fusion VM for when I need to access Windows on the laptop. This is handy for me as I have a bunch of Windows VMs that I run in the house on a few servers and I'm usually working on. That being said, my laptop has always been a secondary device for me. My primary device is still my Desktop which does all of my gaming and power hungry work. I don't think my view of certain limitations Apple has imposed (such as non-removable storage) would be as favorable if I didn't have over 40TB of network storage available.

Look at your use case and decide if the limitations work for you then do what's best.

Whatever you do, try your best to "right size" your computer and don't buy the "biggest" just because it is the biggest. Meaning, if you're not using the MacBook Pro as a full fledged desktop replacement due to you working primarily in the field then drop down from the i9 and 4TB of storage of whatever else you've added to your cart. Get a machine that fits what your actual use case is. You'll always get more power for less money with a dedicated desktop to handle the heavy work.
 

alaska_av8r

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 31, 2019
4
0
Memphis TN
Thank you Logical for your well thought out reply. It is good to hear from someone that has experience with the machine and what you have said mirrors some of my thoughts. I don't have any experience with a VM but since I was looking into using bootcamp and Win10 I was thinking along the lines of a 2 tb ssd drive, I don't currently have a desktop, so the laptop is my "do all" but I do have a NAS. My current laptop has about 1/2 tb used up between two drives with Win 7, programs, photos and videos, various files etc.

tim


A lot of your questions are hashed out fairly well in the threads that have been popping up since the current crop of MacBooks have went on sale. As a person who recently made a similar jump I'll share my two cents, but I can only speak from my vantage point and you'll be left to evaluate what is best for you.

I picked up a 2018 15" MBP in July and I've been very happy with it as a replacement for my T530 that I had for the last 5 years. The Lenovo is built like a tank so it stood up extremely well over the last 5 years with no major failures and only wear and tear. The biggest problem I had with it was battery life. It kept its ~3 hours of battery life from new consistently as I'm very good about keeping a battery healthy (and I had 4 spares for when I needed more power). I evaluated the Lenovo X1 Carbon and ended up with the MBP after hashing it all out.

I have only had one issue with the MBP that I considered a fluke. One of my USB C ports went out and refused to charge the laptop after about 3 weeks and Apple swapped it for another Brand New In Box in September and I haven't had an issue since. The machine is performant, lightweight and has long battery life so it serves all of my needs. It also my daily driver and I'm still not regretting my choice to pick it up.

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of buying a 2015 MBP as some here have suggested. The furthest I'd go back is 2017 and even then I'd be cautious. Apple hardware tends to sell at a premium and buying 4 year old technology at the prices I've seen floating around is a bit silly IMHO. Especially since users are generally recommending you buy these older devices in search of a sense of reliability that hasn't proven in any independent fashion.

I agree the dongle stuff isn't all that exciting, but it isn't all that much of a problem either. It is more manufactured than anything as users tend to be very vocal about Apple's design decisions than other brands. The port I was most unhappy losing when transitioning from my Lenovo was Ethernet honestly. The dongle I picked up has Ethernet as well as legacy USB A that I throw in my bag for when I need these. Keep in mind you'll gain some nice bonuses from Apple going USB C in the way they did. You can charge from any port on the laptop and you can treat them all as equal. Including putting external monitors into any available slot. Coupled with USB C being the future I am not very bothered in this area. In the not too distant future we'll be able to plug our phones or laptops in to charge in the airport without needing to yank out a wall wart or carry 5 cables.

I run Windows in a VMWare Fusion VM for when I need to access Windows on the laptop. This is handy for me as I have a bunch of Windows VMs that I run in the house on a few servers and I'm usually working on. That being said, my laptop has always been a secondary device for me. My primary device is still my Desktop which does all of my gaming and power hungry work. I don't think my view of certain limitations Apple has imposed (such as non-removable storage) would be as favorable if I didn't have over 40TB of network storage available.

Look at your use case and decide if the limitations work for you then do what's best.

Whatever you do, try your best to "right size" your computer and don't buy the "biggest" just because it is the biggest. Meaning, if you're not using the MacBook Pro as a full fledged desktop replacement due to you working primarily in the field then drop down from the i9 and 4TB of storage of whatever else you've added to your cart. Get a machine that fits what your actual use case is. You'll always get more power for less money with a dedicated desktop to handle the heavy work.
 

LogicalApex

macrumors 6502
Nov 13, 2015
494
434
Thank you Logical for your well thought out reply. It is good to hear from someone that has experience with the machine and what you have said mirrors some of my thoughts. I don't have any experience with a VM but since I was looking into using bootcamp and Win10 I was thinking along the lines of a 2 tb ssd drive, I don't currently have a desktop, so the laptop is my "do all" but I do have a NAS. My current laptop has about 1/2 tb used up between two drives with Win 7, programs, photos and videos, various files etc.

tim
No problem. Just a few extra thoughts...

Apple charges a fairly high premium for storage, but you can leverage your NAS and/or external storage for anything that you don't need access to all the time. If you're living fine with a 512GB drive in your current laptop I'd say you'll probably be fine with 512GB in your MacBook Pro, but going to 1TB is reasonable as well. I'd make good use of your NAS to offload anything that isn't needed more frequently. Makes it easier to deal with backups and restores and introducing it properly to your workflow means you'll have access to far more economical storage. For me, my networked storage means I have access to what I need across all of my devices and so does my wife.

I went with a VM for Windows 10 primarily due to me using VMs a lot already across my workflow. They offer a lot of great advantages such as portability, snapshots, and ease of use (I don't need to choose between MacOS or Windows with a reboot). But they may not be the best choice if you need access to 100% of the machine's power in the VM. In that case Bootcamp may be a better choice. But VMs are awesome.

Also, keep in mind the larger your on device storage and utilization the larger your backup needs. You absolutely want to have backups in place on your device using Time Machine or something else (I currently use Time Machine). The 2018 MacBook Pro encrypts all data at rest and a portion of the encryption key is derived from a device key that is uniquely generated on T2 fabrication. Meaning, you can't read the data from the MacBook Pro without being able to boot it properly. So a dead device means the only way to recover data is to restore from a backup. The nice side is you'll be sure that sending your device off to Apple for repair or if it is stolen will mean no one can access what you've stored on your device.

Time Machine backups can be either done across the network to your NAS or to an external drive connected to your Mac.
 

poorcody

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2013
788
603
And about every 4-5 years I buy a new pc, usually a laptop. When I do buy I generally buy very close if not the top end at the time, best processor, most ram, large drives etc.....so I do spend money to get what I want within reason.
I used to do this myself, but I started going with a more mid-tier system to save money and upgrading a little more frequently. I found no matter how much you try to "future-proof" by going high-spec, you still miss out on things by holding it a long time, and (especially with Apple), you pay a premium for upgrades far beyond their linear benefit. Just something to consider...

I have been reading quite a bit about the latest Macbooks and here are my concerns. The i9 Intel processor and its heating issue worry me a bit since along with water, heat can drastically reduce the life of a laptop, not to mention it may be uncomfortable to hold.... yes I use a laptop as a laptop in my lap 90% of the time.
I don't have direct experience with this model, I would just say if this is a concern: (a) you can use software to throttle it down if you find it a problem and (b) I doubt for your uses an i9 is really going to be all that much better anyway. It's one of those things you pay a lot for for a small real-world benefit. I suspect an i7 would be a better choice all-around.

I also am frustrated by the lack of older ports....maybe.... I don't like the idea of dongles, every single laptop I have owned the charging port socket was the first thing to go (come loose from the keyboard).
If the charging port is the first thing to usually go, you will like the fact that you can charge it with any of the four ports, and use either side. One advantage I have also found with the Thunderbolt 3 ports is at my desk I can "dock" with just one cable: it holds power, a 5k monitor, and USB-3 hub all in one. That is nice. I carry a USB-C to USB-3 adapter on my keychain for times I might need it on the road, but I rarely use it. The most annoying thing I might see would be a lack of an HDMI port if you happen to move into conference rooms or such regularly.

But as far as peripherals I currently use a bluetooth mouse. I am not sure if I would have to use a dongle with a mouse or if there is a selection that would bluetooth to the laptop without a dongle.
Bluetooth is built-in internally so you can use a bluetooth mouse and/or keyboard without a dongle.

I have read some discussions on folks that are hoping Apple will do something to correct these real/perceived faults with the macbook pro with their next release, so here is what I am asking. I would like input from those of you that own the new macbook, and/or are really familiar with Apple's past to provide a bit of advice, thoughts or whatever you want to call it.
There is lot's of talk in these forums and I don't want to rehash it. I can just offer my experience: I bought a 2016 MBP 15" when it was launched, have used it everyday since, never had a problem with it, like the keyboard, and it is the best computer I have ever had. We have 10 others in my group slightly younger by a few months, and everyone likes them, and no problems with them.

Almost forgot, I know I will have to get new software for some of the programs I use, but for some of my old programs that don't have an Apple version I will be running bootcamp with Win10.
I will echo what others have said don't forget to give a VM a look (e.g. Parallels or VMware Fusion). I run Windows 10 in a VM and it is really nice -- I can literally take three fingers and swipe across my trackpad to switch back and forth between the Mac and Windows. I don't notice it being any slower for my tasks (I'm sure games would be an exception).

So on my new macbook I will be running two operating systems plus the other files. I initially thought the 1tb ssd hardrive would be enough until I did the math. I am not sure how large IOS is but I expect Win10 will likely be pretty large as well....thoughts...
Really tough to guess space needs, and precarious when buying a MacBook since you only get one shot at it. My Windows 10 VM is only about 85GB (with Windows 10 Pro, Office Pro, Visual Studio, some web-apps etc). XCode with iOS depends on how many simulators and stuff you load, but 20GB will probably cover most scenarios. I got a 512GB, but I wish I had 1TB today.

Good luck!
 

BuCkDoG

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2013
535
178
I today am still using an Early 2013 15" rMBP and honestly have had 0 issues with it. I have gone into the Apple Stores and messed around with the newer machines and although they are definitely more powerful and have some nicer features, I cannot get around all of the issues they have. Between failing keyboards, between T2 issues and Kernal Panics, between audio issues, I just cannot justify getting rid of this machine and upgrading. Its sad that that is the current case but that is just my personal stance on it. I do like the newer keyboards especially once you get used to it but the scissor switch is still fine and hasn't had any issues. I personally would buy a 2015 rMBP if you can and save some money and you thank us later.
 

Painter2002

macrumors 65816
May 9, 2017
1,083
759
Austin, TX
No problem. Just a few extra thoughts...

Apple charges a fairly high premium for storage, but you can leverage your NAS and/or external storage for anything that you don't need access to all the time. If you're living fine with a 512GB drive in your current laptop I'd say you'll probably be fine with 512GB in your MacBook Pro, but going to 1TB is reasonable as well. I'd make good use of your NAS to offload anything that isn't needed more frequently. Makes it easier to deal with backups and restores and introducing it properly to your workflow means you'll have access to far more economical storage. For me, my networked storage means I have access to what I need across all of my devices and so does my wife.

I went with a VM for Windows 10 primarily due to me using VMs a lot already across my workflow. They offer a lot of great advantages such as portability, snapshots, and ease of use (I don't need to choose between MacOS or Windows with a reboot). But they may not be the best choice if you need access to 100% of the machine's power in the VM. In that case Bootcamp may be a better choice. But VMs are awesome.

Also, keep in mind the larger your on device storage and utilization the larger your backup needs. You absolutely want to have backups in place on your device using Time Machine or something else (I currently use Time Machine). The 2018 MacBook Pro encrypts all data at rest and a portion of the encryption key is derived from a device key that is uniquely generated on T2 fabrication. Meaning, you can't read the data from the MacBook Pro without being able to boot it properly. So a dead device means the only way to recover data is to restore from a backup. The nice side is you'll be sure that sending your device off to Apple for repair or if it is stolen will mean no one can access what you've stored on your device.

Time Machine backups can be either done across the network to your NAS or to an external drive connected to your Mac.
I second this opinion... I have a 256 GB MBP for the very reason that I just can't justify spending the greatly inflated Apple SSD prices, even if they are fast. I'd rather buy a Samsung T5, or buy another USB-C compatible external drive enclosure and drop in a better priced 1-2 TB 2.5" SSD. Unless you have oodles of money to drop on these machines, or your work is picking up the tab on this new computer, I certainly would say try to stick with the 512GB you currently have, or at least definitely don't go any higher than 1 TB on the internal SSD storage. Just my $0.02.

Also, I would say I am another person satisfied with my 2017 MBP, and I have had no issues, but there is the chance that you could get one of the many current issues. How much of a chance, IDK, but that's your choice. In my eyes, every computer is at risk of issues, no matter the brand, it just hurts a whole heck of a lot more on an expensive one than on a cheaper computer if an issue does happen.
 
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Jaekae

macrumors 6502a
Dec 4, 2012
625
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The i9 run hot only when using it 100% but still under intels max recomendation. And since it doesn't run 100% all the time i dont think it will effect the life length of it do much. And i9 seems faster at all tasks thsn i7 so its worth it. But i would wait until around july when the new macbook pro comes. It will use a newer processor thats faster and runs cooler. Which is good since they probably use same chassi design for 2019 as before. Next re design will be 2020 since normally its been 4 years between those
 

Ploki

macrumors 68040
Jan 21, 2008
3,991
1,274
fwiw i9 is only worth it for single-core and cache intensive tasks, for everything else (and especially for multicore) it's thermally capped and performs about the same as the i7s.
 

BuCkDoG

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2013
535
178
The i9 run hot only when using it 100% but still under intels max recomendation. And since it doesn't run 100% all the time i dont think it will effect the life length of it do much. And i9 seems faster at all tasks thsn i7 so its worth it. But i would wait until around july when the new macbook pro comes. It will use a newer processor thats faster and runs cooler. Which is good since they probably use same chassi design for 2019 as before. Next re design will be 2020 since normally its been 4 years between those
I honestly don't think the i9 is worth the upgrade. The performance is just not there for the price tag as well as the thermal limits this chassis can run at. If the MBP had a better cooling solution, then I would say absolutely yes its worth it but the throttling is the real deal so I would save your money and grab the i7 and put that money into the RAM upgrade instead.
 

ilikewhey

macrumors 65816
May 14, 2014
1,175
1,289
nyc upper east
I wouldn't even entertain the idea of buying a 2015 MBP as some here have suggested. The furthest I'd go back is 2017 and even then I'd be cautious. Apple hardware tends to sell at a premium and buying 4 year old technology at the prices I've seen floating around is a bit silly IMHO. Especially since users are generally recommending you buy these older devices in search of a sense of reliability that hasn't proven in any independent fashion.
in what way hasnt it proven to be reliable? if anything the 2015 models are the most reliable mbp out there.

im not recommending anyone to buy the 2015 models but it does have far more reliable keyboard and workable, typing on butterfly is like the ipad touchscreen, and it doesnt have the integrated T2 chip which is causing headaches in many posts on this forum.
 
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