2019 13in MBP basic run cooler than 2020 MBA at the same price.

[high heaven]

Starting from 8:50

Both 13in MBP basic and 2020 MBA + i5 cost $1299. And yet 13 MBP basic perform much cooler in terms of temperature. Which means 15W U series CPU runs cooler than 10W Y series CPU. This is because MBA's cooling system isn't great at all due to a lack of heat pipe.

Yes, it's still fine for normal uses but quite limited compared to 2019 13in MBP basic.

 

[IngerMan]

I watched the video. Thank you for the post. If my machine runs like the video it will be going back. But from all the posters sharing their experience I feel a good chance it will run as cool as my last 3 apple laptops which was fine.

I don't need PRO and would hate to have to go PRO just for temps. I feel pretty confident that for casual lite use the machine should run 40+C from posters reviews. I am ok if it runs 90+C for doing some extensive work that is short time based. This 2017 15" MBP I am typing on will run 90+C just doing a carbon copy cloner for the short duration.

 

[deeddawg]

I didn't watch the video.

What was the surface temperature on the bottom of the case?

That's what I care about when using a laptop on my lap. Actual CPU temp is irrelevant so long as the part that's touching me isn't uncomfortable.

 

[high heaven]

I watched the video. Thank you for the post. If my machine runs like the video it will be going back. But from all the posters sharing their experience I feel a good chance it will run as cool as my last 3 apple laptops which was fine.

I don't need PRO and would hate to have to go PRO just for temps. I feel pretty confident that for casual lite use the machine should run 40+C from posters reviews. I am ok if it runs 90+C for doing some extensive work that is short time based. This 2017 15" MBP I am typing on will run 90+C just doing a carbon copy cloner for the short duration.

The point is, 2020 MBA's cooling system isn't great due to a lack of heat pipe despite its price and CPU.
[automerge]1588353567[/automerge]

I didn't watch the video.

What was the surface temperature on the bottom of the case?

That's what I care about when using a laptop on my lap. Actual CPU temp is irrelevant so long as the part that's touching me isn't uncomfortable.

Idk but 2020 MBA seems to be much hotter than MBP for sure.

 

[deeddawg]

Idk but 2020 MBA seems to be much hotter than MBP for sure.

My 2020 MBA bottom case temp is 98F just now after running a photo merge in Lightroom.

Do you have one, or just going by youtube videos?

 

[magbarn]

My 2020 MBA bottom case temp is 98F just now after running a photo merge in Lightroom.

Do you have one, or just going by youtube videos?

Of course it runs cool on the bottom. The CPU even when running at 100C is "well insulated"
I guess it's a plus as my MBP's definitely have hotter exteriors as a consequence of piping all the heat outside.
The MBA is more comfortable to use on the lap...

Light use, the MBA is good enough and fast enough for most. Hardcore nerds like me are the only ones who should be disappointed...

 

[deeddawg]

Of course it runs cool on the bottom. The CPU even when running at 100C is "well insulated"
I guess it's a plus as my MBP's definitely have hotter exteriors as a consequence of piping all the heat outside.
The MBA is more comfortable to use on the lap...

Light use, the MBA is good enough and fast enough for most. Hardcore nerds like me are the only ones who should be disappointed...

I don't mean this to be offensive, and it's not directed at you since you "get it", but folks shouldn't buy the wrong tool for the job and then be surprised when it doesn't do what they need it to do.

If ya gotta do heavy constant CPU bound work - the MBA is the wrong tool for the job. Don't blame the screwdriver when it sucks at breaking cinderblocks.

My MBA is for lightweight usage - sitting in the recliner doing light safari / email / etc as well as (light) photo culling / tagging / ranking - even a little tweaking. Size and weight for portability. Previously was using a 12" rMB for this purpose, as it was easy to carry when travelling. Yet the 2015 model was getting pretty long in the tooth.

My MBP15 is for the heavy lifting - exporting a ton of images at once, driving dual displays, etc. It's also not nearly as light and portable as the MBA so it stays home most of the time.

Edit - bottom case down to 90F. Palm rests 80F.

Which is really the point. I don't feel the CPU temp when I'm using the system. I feel the case temps.

Kinda why I dislike so many of these powergadget / spec focused comparisons. Who cares whether the fan is spinning or not. Can you hear anything or is the computer silent? How warm is the laptop in one's lap and under one's hands? Those are the factors that matter to users.

 

[high heaven]

My 2020 MBA bottom case temp is 98F just now after running a photo merge in Lightroom.

Do you have one, or just going by youtube videos?

I'm checking all videos and data to collect more information. Since you have LR, do you have a screenshot of Intel Power Gadget? One person claimed that using LR/PS in 2020 MBA is quite hot around 100C but I'm not sure if he is telling the truth or not.

 

[magbarn]

It’s hot but it runs decent enough. It’s much faster than my dual core 2016 m5 MacBook 12. I’m starting to see the advantage as if you’re comfortable with the cpu running at the boiling point of water occasionally (this is safe as Intel certified it for this temp) it doesn’t matter as the heat isn’t being dumped into your lap. I see this as an advantage in a way as my mbp’s get uncomfortable from getting too hot on the lap when being driven hard whilst the mba stays comfy!

 

[bennyyyy]

Well, this is with the i7....I would like to know how it goes with the i3...!
Anf for small uses like Netflix during 2H for example.

 

[deeddawg]

I'm checking all videos and data to collect more information. Since you have LR, do you have a screenshot of Intel Power Gadget? One person claimed that using LR/PS in 2020 MBA is quite hot around 100C but I'm not sure if he is telling the truth or not.

Lightroom6 hasn't been working since restoring my 12" rMB image to this i5 MBA - but I got it working today after installing a new copy of the Creative Cloud Desktop App. I'm also trialing Lightroom Classic CC 9.2.whateveritis.

I've never installed Intel Power Gadget. Not interested in doing so. It measures stuff I don't really care about.

What I can tell you this -- so far playing around with LR9 a bit, I hear a little bit of fan noise when LR is truly working such as building smart previews for a hundred 16MP RAW images. And then it goes silent again. Same doing a five image panorama or a five image HDR. Little bit of fan - but not jet engine or obtrusive - when silent again. Just like my 2018 MBP15 does too. Bottom case temp bumped up to 96F from 90F (infrared thermometer).

Just moving around in Library or doing a little tweaking in Develop it's silent and not at all hot. Super snappy - as you'd expect since the CPU usage in that context is very bursty.

I spent three hours with it in my lap last night tagging/culling/categorizing photos in Photo Mechanic (as well as some web surfing and email) and it was never noticeably warm.

I am exceptionally pleased with it so far as a replacement for my 2015 12" rMB.

Also note - the i5/8/256 is $1099 for the MBA, and $1499 for the MBP13. Start with the i3 MBA and do the $100 i5 upgrade. For the same memory/SSD configs, the current MBP13 is $400 more expensive.

 

[high heaven]

Well, this is with the i7....I would like to know how it goes with the i3...!
Anf for small uses like Netflix during 2H for example.

It's i5, not i7.

 

[deeddawg]

I'm checking all videos and data to collect more information. Since you have LR, do you have a screenshot of Intel Power Gadget? One person claimed that using LR/PS in 2020 MBA is quite hot around 100C but I'm not sure if he is telling the truth or not.

Nope. Never installed Intel Power Gadget. No interest in doing so.

I care about external factors that I can perceive. CPU and fan can do what they want inside so long as I don’t feel uncomfortable heat or intrusive fan noise. Whether the CPU is at 1000C or 70°Cis immaterial absent externally perceivable factors.

With Lightroom, I have no fan or heat in general browsing or cataloging. When I export a bunch of photos or do a panorama or HDR merge I get a bit of unobtrusive fan slinging for a minute that goes back to silence in 15-20 seconds

 

[IngerMan]

What seems odd is they are only focusing on sensor temperature. If it shows doing medium to heavy tasks and the temps hit 90 Celsius. But the performance is still good and the exterior of the laptop is comfortable that should be considered.

 

[ctjack]

temps hit 90 Celsius. But the performance is still good and the exterior of the laptop is comfortable that should be considered.

The only problem i can see here is that thermal paste will dry up quickly with those temps. So if it likes this kind of spikes for usual things, then it will be a problem in 2 years.
In 2 years, people who can do that, will easily reapply 3rd party thermal paste and keep rocking.
Those who can't, will have to either pay to someone or get rid of lagging laptop (thermal throttle without thermal paste) and buy a new Air.

 

[bennyyyy]

It's i5, not i7.

at 0:57 i am hearing i7....but may be i an wrong i am not american.

 

[high heaven]

at 0:57 i am hearing i7....but may be i an wrong i am not american.

What are you talking about? Both MBA and MBP are i5. At 2:52, he showed the spec for both laptops and it is very clear that both devices have i5.

 

[RiaKoobcam]

For those that care about thermals and fan noise (like me, I'm pedantic about it) - it's worth noting that the entry level MBP runs quieter as well as cooler than the MBA.

The below is from Notebookcheck's Review of the 2019 base MBP. It's a good resource, they actually systematically measure sound and thermals:

The single fan does a pretty good job and the fan noise is similar to the old MacBook Pro 13 with function keys. The fan will slowly increase its speed under load and reaches up to 39 dB(A). At this level, you can clearly hear the fan and the frequency could be more pleasant as well. Short peak load (20-30 seconds), however, usually does not activate the fan, so the device is very often silent in everyday scenarios. The more expensive MacBook Pro 13 with two fans can get even louder. We did not notice any other electronic sounds/noises.

Compare it to the 2020 i5 MBA figures:

The only task of the fan is to improve the air circulation inside the chassis. The new quad-core Core i5 processor, however, produces much more heat than the old dual-core, and the slightly larger heat sink does not really help, either. Compared to the previous model, this means the fan is running more often and it also gets louder. We are not only talking about extreme load scenarios, but daily stuff, like the installation of applications or OS updates. At more than 40 dB(A), the small fan is clearly audible under sustained workloads.

However, the MacBook Air is usually silent while idling or light workloads like web browsing with a few tabs. We usually saw around 2700 rpm with an external monitor and light multi-tasking (e.g. YouTube video and web browsing), where the notebook is still not audible from a normal working distance. Even light picture editing via Affinity Photo (JPG) is possible without activity of the fan. When you start to stress the processor or even the graphics card though, the fan will speed up to its maximum 8100 rpm and loud 45.8 dB(A) within a couple of minutes. In addition to a comparatively slow device, you also have to live with a loud device and a chip temperature of 100 °C (212 °F).

Just in case anyone's thinking 39 decibels to 45.8 decibels isn't that big a jump, the dB(A) scale is logarithmic, not linear. It's a rule of thumb that six decibels is roughly double.

A difference of 20 decibels relates exactly to ten times the strength, whereas 6 decibels are almost the double. The ratio between each step is 1.12201845430196.

This is not a small difference.

 

[RiaKoobcam]

So, given this info, I got to thinking. 'My MBA 2019 has the same fan in it and I hardly ever hear it. My MBA 2015 got loud at times, too, so why was the fan so much more noticeable on the 2020 i5?'

Check out the average load sound emissions across a few comparable laptops. I put the 2015 MBA in there for a historical comparison - still quieter, on average, than the 2020 i5.

For context: 30dB(A) is close to inaudible to the human ear - the 2019 MBA, the 2019 MBP that's the subject of this thread, the Surface 3, the Acer Swift and the XPS all hover at or around this.

Compare this to the i5's average sound emissions of 45.5. A difference of ten decibels on average is very noticeable unless you've got earphones in, are in a noisy office (which are around 60dB) are in a cafe, or have hearing damage.

Straight up comparison with last year's Macbook Air: same fan, this year's is much louder on average. By the numbers, it's running at higher RPM, more often, to keep the 2020 i5 within safe design parameters.

 

[ARJR84]

So, given this info, I got to thinking. 'My MBA 2019 has the same fan in it and I hardly ever hear it. My MBA 2015 got loud at times, too, so why was the fan so much more noticeable on the 2020 i5?'

Check out the average load sound emissions across a few comparable laptops. I put the 2015 MBA in there for a historical comparison - still quieter, on average, than the 2020 i5.

For context: 30dB(A) is close to inaudible to the human ear - the 2019 MBA, the 2019 MBP that's the subject of this thread, the Surface 3, the Acer Swift and the XPS all hover at or around this.

Compare this to the i5's average sound emissions of 45.5. A difference of ten decibels on average is very noticeable unless you've got earphones in, are in a noisy office (which are around 60dB) are in a cafe, or have hearing damage.

Straight up comparison with last year's Macbook Air: same fan, this year's is much louder on average. By the numbers, it's running at higher RPM, more often, to keep the 2020 i5 within safe design parameters.

No matter what people say about the fans running, I always come back to this review as it's the most empirical one that exists. It's often the case that a random person says, "the fans aren't an issue" but the "load" they are placing on the machine are 3 safari tabs and a youtube video. 45dB is unacceptable. I have an electric fireplace that runs at 48dB and that is audible 30 feet away. Anything close to that is reprehensible, even if it were half the loudness.

What I am most impressed with are how quiet the XPS 9300's fans run at. I almost don't believe their data, that a fan at full blast runs at 32.4 considering how it is smaller than the MBA.

 

[deeddawg]

It's often the case that a random person says, "the fans aren't an issue" but the "load" they are placing on the machine are 3 safari tabs and a youtube video.

if your usage is going to generate sustained cpu load then buy a MBP. The MBA isn't the computer for you. It’s set up for short bursts of cpu not sustained compute loads.

The only time mines been loud was a stuck sync process. Otherwise it’s mostly silent with slightly audible fan when I do photo raw conversions of a bunch of images.

 

[bennyyyy]

[QUOTE = "high heaven, post: 28428513, membre: 1109908"]
Qu'est-ce que tu racontes? MBA et MBP sont tous deux i5. À 2h52, il a montré les spécifications des deux ordinateurs portables et il est très clair que les deux appareils ont i5.
[/CITATION]
lol, i can't find it...At 2mn 52sec you mean ?

What are you talking about? Both MBA and MBP are i5. At 2:52, he showed the spec for both laptops and it is very clear that both devices have i5.

Well sorry but i don't see the spec of the mba at 2mn52s...

 

[high heaven]

[QUOTE = "high heaven, post: 28428513, membre: 1109908"]
Qu'est-ce que tu racontes? MBA et MBP sont tous deux i5. À 2h52, il a montré les spécifications des deux ordinateurs portables et il est très clair que les deux appareils ont i5.
[/CITATION]
lol, i can't find it...At 2mn 52sec you mean ?

Well sorry but i don't see the spec of the mba at 2mn52s...

 

[RiaKoobcam]

No matter what people say about the fans running, I always come back to this review as it's the most empirical one that exists. It's often the case that a random person says, "the fans aren't an issue" but the "load" they are placing on the machine are 3 safari tabs and a youtube video. 45dB is unacceptable. I have an electric fireplace that runs at 48dB and that is audible 30 feet away. Anything close to that is reprehensible, even if it were half the loudness.

Yeah I come back to my work in Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) for a few of the platforms we use at work. I'm not an expert, I'm a user, but the experts helped me understand db(A).

For every anecdotal account of 'seems quiet to me', you have to go back to the data. We don't have a lot of it, but the 2020 MBA it is objectively hotter and louder, more often, than the Macbook Air that came before it, the pre-2018 Macbook Airs, and the current base Macbook Pros.

I think a lot of the 'mine is quiet, everyone is wrong' comes down to two factors.

1) They're coming from older Macbook Pros, or even modern higher specced ones, that were more audible more of the time, or

2) as you say, their use case is 3 Safari tabs and a Youtube video.

I mean, my use case was 3 Brave (Chromium-based browser) and a Youtube video. The same use case on the 2019 MBA is silent running. On the 2020 i5 it was 5000rpm most of the time, on the 2020 i3 it was 5000rpm some of the time. Apart from this translating to first-time-ever-heat-discomfort in a Macbook Air that I've used on my lap, both 2020 models I tried were noticeably louder than previous generations.

A lot of people keep making apples and oranges comparisons. It might not be as loud or as hot as what you're transitioning from, but for a Macbook Air, this generation represents a large step backwards in cooling and noise emissions.

Bringing up this point isn't to say it's a broken, crap machine and you should return it. If you're happy with this, go nuts - for a lot of people coming from Macbook Pros or other notebooks, this'll be the quietest, coolest thing they've ever used.

But this is the loudest and hottest Macbook Air ever released. I thought the above data might be incorrect, tried it for myself, and it was confirmed. Given that the size difference between the Air and Pro is now pretty neglible (apart from the wedge design), Mac users who value cool, quiet running would be better served at the moment buying a base model Pro.

 

[deeddawg]

Yeah I come back to my work in Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) for a few of the platforms we use at work. I'm not an expert, I'm a user, but the experts helped me understand db(A).

For every anecdotal account of 'seems quiet to me', you have to go back to the data. We don't have a lot of it, but the 2020 MBA it is objectively hotter and louder, more often, than the Macbook Air that came before it, the pre-2018 Macbook Airs, and the current base Macbook Pros.

I think a lot of the 'mine is quiet, everyone is wrong' comes down to two factors.

1) They're coming from older Macbook Pros, or even modern higher specced ones, that were more audible more of the time, or

2) as you say, their use case is 3 Safari tabs and a Youtube video.

I mean, my use case was 3 Brave (Chromium-based browser) and a Youtube video. The same use case on the 2019 MBA is silent running. On the 2020 i5 it was 5000rpm most of the time, on the 2020 i3 it was 5000rpm some of the time. Apart from this translating to first-time-ever-heat-discomfort in a Macbook Air that I've used on my lap, both 2020 models I tried were noticeably louder than previous generations.

A lot of people keep making apples and oranges comparisons. It might not be as loud or as hot as what you're transitioning from, but for a Macbook Air, this generation represents a large step backwards in cooling and noise emissions.

Bringing up this point isn't to say it's a broken, crap machine and you should return it. If you're happy with this, go nuts - for a lot of people coming from Macbook Pros or other notebooks, this'll be the quietest, coolest thing they've ever used.

But this is the loudest and hottest Macbook Air ever released. I thought the above data might be incorrect, tried it for myself, and it was confirmed. Given that the size difference between the Air and Pro is now pretty neglible (apart from the wedge design), Mac users who value cool, quiet running would be better served at the moment buying a base model Pro.

All this for your sample size of ONE i5 model.

Accept that others have had a different experience with their i5 models and don’t be dismissing folks who are having a different experience as “three safari tabs and a YouTube video” or the other dismissive comments. Some of us have been using these things since before the first Mac ever came out. Our observations may well be based on long knowledge rather than the ignorance you imply.

I’ve never stated anyone else’s experience is “wrong”, I’ve simply given my sample size of one data point. That it doesn’t jive with your experience is interesting and perhaps points to sample variances for some reason. It makes my experience of a quiet MBA no less real.

All that said, anyone buying a MBA for sustained cpu intensive activities, whether due to their needs or due to their choice of unoptimized software, bought the wrong model and should be buying a MBP instead.