MP 7,1 2019 Mac Pro (Daily Cost)

[MatrixRabbit]

I actually turned off the Keynote when it was announced with the prices, insanity.

Now, I'm giving it some thought. If you factor 'JUST' a lifespan between Mac Pro models, that's 6 years, or about 2000 days. So you're looking at a machine that is ~$3/day. Also, factor in the resell ability for that $6,000 Pro.

"Pro" Precision machines from Dell can range from $250,000+ on their configuration page.

I'm not sure what's a good value here. Even if you factor the components costing $3,500 on a PC build, is it worth the extra for a Mac Pro that has a high resell value, OSX, and "Pro" build quality?

I already have a 32" 4K, so it's tempting just to get the Tower.

 

[leman]

If it had 10 years warranty, sure. But there is also a chance (low one, but still), that your very expensive machine might require a costly repair. Fron this perspective, Mac mini is a better value.

 

[Ifti]

Justifying the large price tag of the Mac pro by breaking it down into a daily cost??!!!

We'll be going down to the hour soon! lol

 

[gazzared]

Justifying the large price tag of the Mac pro by breaking it down into a daily cost??!!!

We'll be going down to the hour soon! lol

You would though break it down over the number of years you expect to keep it. Maybe 3-5 years. Depreciate it over that lifetime.

 

[maflynn]

Honest question, do other high priced workstations of the same caliber include some sort of service contract? It seems a single year warranty for a computer that could run in excess of $35,000 is inadequate

 

[amedias]

Justifying the large price tag of the Mac pro by breaking it down into a daily cost??!!!

We'll be going down to the hour soon! lol

You would though break it down over the number of years you expect to keep it. Maybe 3-5 years. Depreciate it over that lifetime.

Assuming your business requires a machine of that magnitude to do your work.

£10,000 computer (from any vendor)
business lifespan ~3 years
~260 working days in a year
~780 working days over lifespan of machine, call it 750 with downtime and maintenance

Which means you're looking at about £13 per working day.
Leasing a machine like this would cost you between £15-£100 a week depending on spec (lease costs go up dramatically once you go above base spec), 5 working days a week means the per working day cost is between £3 and £20 per day. With no residual resale value at the end of the 3 years.

....Now do the calculations on how much money that machine earns per day.

 

[shaunp]

Honest question, do other high priced workstations of the same caliber include some sort of service contract? It seems a single year warranty for a computer that could run in excess of $35,000 is inadequate

That's one of the issues I have with this - no onsite support option. I don't expect it to be free, although it was with my Thinkpad (thanks Lenovo), but I don't expect to have to take such a high-end product back to the store so a 'genius' can tell me I'm holding it wrong.

You also have to factor in the cost of repair in the years after the AppleCare expires - say yeas 4 and 5, if you plan on keeping it for 5 years. Will this cost be higher than the value of the machine? This is why I've always sold my MBP's after the Apple Care expired, that and each one of them has started to have GPU issues (repaired under warranty) after around 2.5 years.

 

[amedias]

Honest question, do other high priced workstations of the same caliber include some sort of service contract? It seems a single year warranty for a computer that could run in excess of $35,000 is inadequate

Often they do, but just as often you'll buy a additional support pack from the supplier, or another chosen vendor which includes service beyond the base warranty and may cover ALL your kit not just specific devices.

This is also mixing up business and personal but it also depends where you are as to how much of a problem this is, in the EU (and by extension UK...for now!) consumer law here means that you have rights and protection beyond the bare-minimum terms of a manufacturer warranty anyway.
It won't get you an engineer on site (that's what support contracts are for) but it means you don't have to worry so much about getting stuff replaced in month 13+ for personal use and small business. In the enterprise space your support contract will cover it, or it'll be lost/swallowed in operation costs in the multi-million area.

Apple do offer on-site for enterprise, although I don't know what the qualification requirements are to access it, but on-site support products are available from AASPs and from 'normal' support outfits, so it's not that it doesn't exist, it's that the route to it is slightly different that if you might get from HP etc.

 

[ridgero]

Justifying the large price tag of the Mac pro by breaking it down into a daily cost??!!!

We'll be going down to the hour soon! lol

Breaking everything you want to buy down to the daily cost is the absolute best and most objective thing you can do.

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

Cost per day is only a useful metric when discussed in relation to turnover per day.

 

[maflynn]

Justifying the large price tag of the Mac pro by breaking it down into a daily cost??!!!

Why not? These machines are meant for production/business use and not for consumers/hobbyists and as such there needs to be a due diligence if spending x dollars will in fact save them y dollars. Such cost/benefit analysis is quite typical in the world.

 

[slughead]

AASP's are a bad option in large part because Apple does not let them keep a stockpile of parts at least for Macs. They have to identify what they believe is the bad component and send the back at the same time as they ask for the new one, if they don't send it they can get fined or loose their AASP status. If there's a parts shortage you may be waiting weeks (happened to me).

HP specifically offers a 3 year contract with 24/7 on-site support they promise to be at your location (provided your location is reasonable) within 4 hours. They also bring all the replacement parts with them to have you up and running right away. They charge $250 per machine but I'm sure there are site licenses. Not sure if you can re-up every 3 years. Apple does have an "enterprise" option that looks good but it looks like they're intentionally publicly illusive with the specific minimum requirements and cost. I'm sure it has to do with a number of factors like location, potential for future business, and number of machines purchased. Perhaps the contracts are individually negotiated.

That was my whole issue with comparing "workstations" of other manufacturers: Unless you have an enterprise contract with Apple, support is way better for smaller businesses through HP, Dell, and I'm sure others. Standard AppleCare is garbage for people who use their machine for work, especially mission-critical work.

Honest question, do other high priced workstations of the same caliber include some sort of service contract? It seems a single year warranty for a computer that could run in excess of $35,000 is inadequate

Often they do, but just as often you'll buy a additional support pack from the supplier, or another chosen vendor which includes service beyond the base warranty and may cover ALL your kit not just specific devices.

This is also mixing up business and personal but it also depends where you are as to how much of a problem this is, in the EU (and by extension UK...for now!) consumer law here means that you have rights and protection beyond the bare-minimum terms of a manufacturer warranty anyway.
It won't get you an engineer on site (that's what support contracts are for) but it means you don't have to worry so much about getting stuff replaced in month 13+ for personal use and small business. In the enterprise space your support contract will cover it, or it'll be lost/swallowed in operation costs in the multi-million area.

Apple do offer on-site for enterprise, although I don't know what the qualification requirements are to access it, but on-site support products are available from AASPs and from 'normal' support outfits, so it's not that it doesn't exist, it's that the route to it is slightly different that if you might get from HP etc.

 

[amedias]

AASP's are a bad option in large part because Apple does not let them keep a stockpile of parts at least for Macs. They have to identify what they believe is the bad component and send the back at the same time as they ask for the new one, if they don't send it they can get fined or loose their AASP status. If there's a parts shortage you may be waiting weeks (happened to me).

I hear what you're saying, and I understand the complaint, but really that's the AASP not offering good enough service. If they want business from the big boys they offer service beyond what Apple will, it is after all for them to add value beyond just buying from Apple. There is nothing to stop them offering a service where they are onsite within a sensible time frame with a entire replacement machine if necessary, and then deal with fixing the duff one on their own terms once they've got you back up and running. It's service beyond what you get as a consumer but if you're buying tens or hundreds of thousands worth of kit from them then it's a service they'll offer if they want the business. It's not unheard of for entire 'standby' machines being kept in a cupboard with a customers name on for this kind of situation.

support is way better for smaller businesses through HP, Dell, and I'm sure others. Standard AppleCare is garbage for people who use their machine for work, especially mission-critical work.

I agree, I would however love to know the details of Apple's enterprise offering, it may actually be quite good and competitively priced for all we know!

HP specifically offers...

Most of our infrastructure kit is HP, I like them a lot for many reasons, the (very few) times stuff breaks within support they've sorted it super quick, and when it breaks outside of support we fix it with our own spares stockpile. However 99% of our infrastructure is fully redundant anyway, if we have a hardware failure it's a mild inconvenience that we have to get a human to locomote to the machine, waiting on spares in that regard is a non-issue anyway.

 

[JeffPerrin]

If it had 10 years warranty, sure. But there is also a chance (low one, but still), that your very expensive machine might require a costly repair. Fron this perspective, Mac mini is a better value.

My thoughts as well. The GPU, SSD, cooling fans, etc. all use components with proprietary connectors or parts. Replacements won't be cheap.

I get why they did it, but I hope Apple trickles-down some of that tech into a mid-range tower for the "rest of us" pros who don't want a mini and the mess of cables, connectors and 3rd party peripherals required to set-up an equivalent work station.

 

[MatrixRabbit]

I have an accounting background, so breakdowns and valuation is always useful. Cost Benefit Analysis on a particular high-end work item is very prudent. OK let's go hourly, a dime per hour!

Mac Mini isn't a fair comparison, no more so than an iPod is to an iPhone XS. They serve different needs. I actually know someone that uses an iPod with a phone app (needs WiFi), and has completely eliminated cell service. He has a $10 hot spot in his car, it's actually quite interesting.

Anyways, I think the daily cost isn't terrible, especially when it's costing less than that Starbucks.

 

[Macintosh IIcx]

I have an alternative “daily cost” that I’m going to look into when we know the prices for CPU and GPU upgrades: I know I can build a Windows box with the same power but of less money. The question is this; how much are I willing to pay extra for working in MacOS with the other advantages that the Mac Pro brings (expandable, quiet operation). That extra will be $50 per month ($3000 over 5 years).

 

[MatrixRabbit]

You'd also have to factor the EOL value on the Windows PC vs Mac. I'm still seeing 2013 models selling for $3,000+.

Suppose it is $50/month, is that $1.6 worth it. And supposing you sell it for $3,000 after 5 years, that completely negates the cost difference ($1.66*365*5 years). It's my thought that PC will net you next to nothing.

I have an $8,000 high-end PC, 2 years old, and there aren't any buyers for it. I'm a bit annoyed by the depreciation that PC's suffer after purchase.

 

[amedias]

and there aren't any buyers for it.

Oh there are buyers, just maybe not at a price you might be happy to let it go for ;-)

Macs do tend to hold residual value better than equivalent PCs and for personal or small business use it is definitely worth factoring into your calculations, for large business it's normally irrelevant as by the time they're scrapped they're either straight-junked, sold in bulk at nominal cost, or in some cases they may even pay for them to be disposed of in accordance with local e-waste law.

 

[MatrixRabbit]

What exactly should an $8,000 machine, two years old, sell for? It's still under full warranty and maxed specs. I've even put 3,500 without any results. Most just say "I can build it cheaper", which is perhaps the problem with the PC community. Very few Mac users are going to say "I can build a 2013 Mac Pro".

I look on eBay, and 2013 Mac Pro's are abundant and being sold for $3,000+ by those, I assume, are going to buy the Mac Pro.

 

[amedias]

What exactly should an $8,000 machine, two years old, sell for? It's still under full warranty and maxed specs. I've even put 3,500 without any results.

The brutal answer is that if nobody buys it's overpriced. All you can do is keep lowering the price until someone thinks it's a good buy. Or wait...but with hardware that's a risky game as the longer you wait the more tech advances.

Really though the market for machines like that second hand is even smaller than the market for them new! it's only once they're 5+ years old or more that they start selling because by then they are severely depreciated by that point and anyone selling them has probably written them off by then. Macs seem to be an exception to this rule.

There's some cracking deals to be had on HP and Dell workstations in the 3-5 year old age bracket right now, dual CPU (2x 12 core/48T), 64GB HP Z640s for £2000-£2500 for example, and that's from a reseller not even private sales.

Even comparing 10 year old cMP 4,1 and 5,1s with HP Z400s and Z600s etc. You can get double the spec for less money if you're buying HP/Dell/Lenovo.

At consumer level it's even more nuts, a Core2Duo Mac Mini can still fetch £200, tower PC? £20-£30, nice 'mini' PC £50-£75 for the same or better spec.

 

[gugy]

My current MP 12 core 2010 is 8 years old. Still rocking and if I upgrade it's components can still give me great productivity for another couple of years.
Yes, I wish the new MP had a cheaper entry level model but if you are indeed a pro that can make good money out of the machine, you can recoup that investment sooner than later. Add the fact you can easily update this machine and have a 10 year lifespan, it seems like a no brainer. Same can be said for the XDR display.

 

[Macintosh IIcx]

You'd also have to factor the EOL value on the Windows PC vs Mac. I'm still seeing 2013 models selling for $3,000+.

Suppose it is $50/month, is that $1.6 worth it. And supposing you sell it for $3,000 after 5 years, that completely negates the cost difference ($1.66*365*5 years). It's my thought that PC will net you next to nothing.

I have an $8,000 high-end PC, 2 years old, and there aren't any buyers for it. I'm a bit annoyed by the depreciation that PC's suffer after purchase.

Very good point. Thanks...

 

[AidenShaw]

You'd also have to factor the EOL value on the Windows PC vs Mac. I'm still seeing 2013 models selling for $3,000+.

But, you have no idea what the value of a used MP7,1 will be in a couple of years. No idea. "Hope" might lead you to guess that it will be good, but if it is an utter flop you might not get anything close to 10% of the purchase price.

 

[Macintosh IIcx]

But, you have no idea what the value of a used MP7,1 will be in a couple of years. No idea. "Hope" might lead you to guess that it will be good, but if it is an utter flop you might not get anything close to 10% of the purchase price.

Well, if it is a flop, it will be the last Mac with PCI-E expandability in which case people will pay top-dollar to secure one before it is to late.

 

[AidenShaw]

Well, if it is a flop, it will be the last Mac with PCI-E expandability in which case people will pay top-dollar to secure one before it is to late.

Or they'll unload it to get a Z-series.