2019 max'd out 15" a workstation now?

fate0311

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Apple has stepped up to the plate with Novembers refresh with a Vega 20 and now an 8 core intel.....can we finally consider them a workstation able to boot Windows nativity?
 

Stephen.R

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Entirely depends on your requirements.

If you push the cpu on demand tasks for extended periods of time (ie long software builds or video renders) a laptop may not be the best option.

Also if you need > 32GB of ram you’re SOL.
 

fate0311

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Well I understand long periods found in simulations for say engineering would probably end up heating up a MBP....it would also heat up a Thinkpad workstation laptop.

For instance, the P52 has one heat pipe for the GPU and also has thermal issues.

They ALL will throttle under long periods of harsh CPU/GPU use.

As far as the cap on RAM, yea that is a true factor to think about.
 

richinaus

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Well I understand long periods found in simulations for say engineering would probably end up heating up a MBP....it would also heat up a Thinkpad workstation laptop.

For instance, the P52 has one heat pipe for the GPU and also has thermal issues.

They ALL will throttle under long periods of harsh CPU/GPU use.

As far as the cap on RAM, yea that is a true factor to think about.
Not sure what you guys are arguing here. Maybe add in ‘mobile workstation’.

I would class it a thin and light mobile workstation, as it certainly doesn’t compete with the new Zbooks coming out with the new RTX Quadro GPU’s.

And yes it will get hot and bothered under sustained loads. It all depends on use really and what you want to do with it, and if you have a desktop for that really heavy work.
 

fate0311

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Not sure what you guys are arguing here. Maybe add in ‘mobile workstation’.

I would class it a thin and light mobile workstation, as it certainly doesn’t compete with the new Zbooks coming out with the new RTX Quadro GPU’s.

And yes it will get hot and bothered under sustained loads. It all depends on use really and what you want to do with it, and if you have a desktop for that really heavy work.
You say that as if the P3200 Q-Max you can get in a Thinkpad now is a gimp.
 

Falhófnir

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Notably, if you're wanting to boot into Windows, a lot of the macOS thermal optimisations will be missing, so you'll be running hotter and throttling back more.
 

fate0311

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I returned a spec'd out a 2019 MBP that ran a 3300 on Cinabench. I returned it for a P52 Thinkpad i7 6-core 2.6GHz and it just ran a 2238. Holy **** did I lose alot of processing power switching machines.

Granted it has a Quadro P3200 Q-Max but the MBP had a Vega 20 which is no slouch.

Questioning decision.
 

leman

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Oct 14, 2008
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Apple has stepped up to the plate with Novembers refresh with a Vega 20 and now an 8 core intel.....can we finally consider them a workstation able to boot Windows nativity?
Depends on what you consider a workstation... there are definitely laptops sold as workstation that offer less performance than the MBP.

If we talk about CPU performance, the current 15" MBP is within 30% (or so) of the fastest laptops on the market — which makes it the fastest mac laptop (in relative terns). At the same time, other laptops with same hardware and similar weigh /size can be slightly faster due to more aggressive cooling systems. In terms of GPU, Apple is still using sub 50W chips, so they can't compete with bigger cards, but in its segment, Vega Pro 20 was the top of the line (although at a very significant premium) until Nvidia released the GTX 1650. With this, premium windows laptops are again around 25% faster GPU-wise.

As to "being able to boot Windows natively", you had this ability for years and years? Not that its a good idea...
 

fate0311

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Depends on what you consider a workstation... there are definitely laptops sold as workstation that offer less performance than the MBP.

If we talk about CPU performance, the current 15" MBP is within 30% (or so) of the fastest laptops on the market — which makes it the fastest mac laptop (in relative terns). At the same time, other laptops with same hardware and similar weigh /size can be slightly faster due to more aggressive cooling systems. In terms of GPU, Apple is still using sub 50W chips, so they can't compete with bigger cards, but in its segment, Vega Pro 20 was the top of the line (although at a very significant premium) until Nvidia released the GTX 1650. With this, premium windows laptops are again around 25% faster GPU-wise.

As to "being able to boot Windows natively", you had this ability for years and years? Not that its a good idea...
The Quadro P3200 Max-Q in my Thinkpad is 75W so I guess that makes sense.
 

maflynn

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I returned a spec'd out a 2019 MBP that ran a 3300 on Cinabench. I returned it for a P52 Thinkpad i7 6-core 2.6GHz and it just ran a 2238
Why are you surprised that an 8 core computer is beating out a 6 core computer?

2.6Ghz P52 is running a i7-8850H and the 2019 MBP you mention has a i9-9880H

You're comparing apples and oranges at this point. I'm not knocking either machine, but pointing out that the P52 is using an older generation 6 core processor and the current 2019 MBP is running the latest and greatest 8 core.
 
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fate0311

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Why are you surprised that an 8 core computer is beating out a 6 core computer?

2.6Ghz P52 is running a i7-8850H and the 2019 MBP you mention has a i9-9880H

You're comparing apples and oranges at this point. I'm not knocking either machine, but pointing out that the P52 is using an older generation 6 core processor and the current 2019 MBP is running the latest and greatest 8 core.
Im just having a hard time not believing its all a bunch of hype that was started my engineers who do not know much about computers.

No reason why a Vega 20 with 16GB RAM and an 8-core i9 cant plow through large Solidworks assemblies or run lengthy simulations.

And hell, if someone wants to raise the throttling issue then every laptop throttles, even the all mighty P52 with its genius single heat pipe design.

Just frustrated as I have gone back and forth buying and returning machines because of what I read on the internet...when I should be looking at specs and using my common sense.
 

maflynn

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No reason why a Vega 20 with 16GB RAM and an 8-core i9 cant plow through large Solidworks assemblies or run lengthy simulations.
Why couldn't it, I'm not disagreeing.

Just frustrated as I have gone back and forth buying and returning machines because of what I read on the internet.
I can't answer that, and my ThinkPad X1E is an excellent machine, it was out performing a similarly equipped MBP due to improper cooling, its not a perfect machine but it suits my needs to a T.

I give Apple props for making things right with the 2019 and its a better machine. If you're proclivity is towards the Mac platform, then get a MBP. If you're more platform agnostic, then save yourself some money and get a windows machine. These are just tools and you need to pick the right one that works best for you
 
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fate0311

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Why couldn't it, I'm not disagreeing.


I can't answer that, and my ThinkPad X1E is an excellent machine, it was out performing a similarly equipped MBP due to improper cooling, its not a perfect machine but it suits my needs to a T.

I give Apple props for making things right with the 2019 and its a better machine. If you're proclivity is towards the Mac platform, then get a MBP. If you're more platform agnostic, then save yourself some money and get a windows machine. These are just tools and you need to pick the right one that works best for you
Only issue I forsee is not reaping the benefits of Apples undervolt revamps in the 2019 MBP while in BootCamp.

Is there a way for me to mirror Apples undervolting in BootCamp?
 

maflynn

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Is there a way for me to mirror Apples undervolting in BootCamp?
I don't believe so, as apple has the chip locked down and so you cannot make any changes. I tried on my 2018 and was unsuccessful.

If you're going to be running windows and this is totally my own opinion, then you're better off with a windows machine. While a mac can run windows, I've always run into minor but nagging issues, and of course heat, performance and battery life is subpar due to the lack of optimizations.

Would windows in a VM be an option?
 

fate0311

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I don't believe so, as apple has the chip locked down and so you cannot make any changes. I tried on my 2018 and was unsuccessful.

If you're going to be running windows and this is totally my own opinion, then you're better off with a windows machine. While a mac can run windows, I've always run into minor but nagging issues, and of course heat, performance and battery life is subpar due to the lack of optimizations.

Would windows in a VM be an option?
No I want all resources allocated to Windows. All 32GB RAM etc.
 

richinaus

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No I want all resources allocated to Windows. All 32GB RAM etc.
I agree with @maflynn, if you are using windows mainly, get a windows machine due to the optimisations. I had loads of issues in the past with Bootcamp and throttling etc. and swore never to do the same again on a mbp.

I am also of the opinion that laptops are not designed to be hammered and work best for moderate use. I walked into the office the other day and one of the guys had been doing GPU rendering on a Dell G7 and I could hear the fans super loud from about 10m away. It had finished the render also. I have no idea why he didn’t do it on a desktop.
 

BuCkDoG

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Jun 13, 2013
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I would easily classify a maxed out 2019 15" MBP a workstation for sure. Given the 8 core CPU and additional thermal paste applied, this thing truly does fly. Everyone loves to compare benchmarks and what not, but real world performance it really does shine in every aspect. There is multiple real world tests out there that stress this thing to the max and it does hold its own much better than the previous models. If it wasn't for the rumored 2019 new MBP, I personally would buy one. Just my two cents.
 

Trolle

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May 24, 2016
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Hell yea it's a workstation. 8 core, 32 Gigs ram, Vega 20 1 tb hardrive. This thing is a beast straight from Tim Cooks personal hell.
 

agreenster

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Dec 6, 2001
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I gotta say, I just got the maxed out MBP and I am extremely impressed.

I work in Maya (3D Animation) and had been using a 2018 i7 MBP previously and was getting about 17 fps in the scene I was animating. The new MBP is coming in at 27 fps. That might not seem like a huge difference but it is a HUGE increase. And it makes a big difference while working. It’s smooth like butter.

For reference, at work I use a “proper” workstation. Dell Precision T7910 24 core Xeon, 192 GB mem and Nvidia P5000 graphic card. In the same scene, it was also getting about 19 fps or so.

I can’t explain it (because really I’m an artist not a techie) But man am I pleased.
 
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fate0311

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I gotta say, I just got the maxed out MBP and I am extremely impressed.

I work in Maya (3D Animation) and had been using a 2018 i7 MBP previously and was getting about 17 fps in the scene I was animating. The new MBP is coming in at 27 fps. That might not seem like a huge difference but it is a HUGE increase. And it makes a big difference while working. It’s smooth like butter.

For reference, at work I use a “proper” workstation. Dell Precision T7910 24 core Xeon, 192 GB mem and Nvidia P5000 graphic card. In the same scene, it was also getting about 19 fps or so.

I can’t explain it (because really I’m an artist not a techie) But man am I pleased.
Are you saying the Vega 20 is doing everything as well as a desktop class Quadra P5000?

Thats a bold statement.
 

agreenster

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I can’t make that statement definitively, obviously. But comparing the same Maya file performance on both systems has me very pleased in this real-world scenario.

There could be a host of reasons why this is happening (Linux vs MacOS, maya version etc) Who knows. I’m gonna play around with it more today
 
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leman

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Are you saying the Vega 20 is doing everything as well as a desktop class Quadra P5000?
A lot of software is subject to diminishing returns when it comes to GPU performance. At some point, putting progressively faster GPUs in are going to show very little improvement. The reason for this is that bottleneck lies somewhere else and the software is not able to utilise the GPU to its fullest (either because of bad programming or because the nature of the workflow).
 

SnoFlo

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Feb 5, 2010
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Apple MacBook Pro:

Xeon processors - No
ECC RAM - No
128GB RAM capable - No
NVIDIA Quadro or AMD FirePro graphics - No
100% Adobe RGB screens - No
User replaceable components e.g. RAM, battery, keyboard, fans, HDDs, optical drives, GPU - No
Military specification testing and pass results for drops, shock, dust, temperature, water etc - No
Enterprise level security - No
Software certification guaranteed - No
Standard business-class warranty with 3-year on-site technical support - No
Tested for 24/7 on time with 100% max CPU workload - No
230W power supplies - No