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2020 $1799 MBP Unusual Benchmark Performance

Mattyman said:

this guy suggests the new pro thermal throttles after 5 minutes. Not seen this reported yet....any thoughts if this could be true?
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It is possible, but I would like to see a detailed review. The 2019 $1799 MBP did slightly thermal throttle when you put both the CPU and GPU under load (Its base clock is 2.4 GHz, and it sustained 2.3 GHz).

However, even when the 2019 model thermal throttled, the CPU stayed at 79 degrees C. Some of the early testing shows the 2020 $1799 MBP with the 10th-gen chip quickly hitting and staying at 100 degrees C under load.
 
Mattyman said:
this guy suggests the new pro thermal throttles after 5 minutes. Not seen this reported yet....any thoughts if this could be true?
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- That was a weird review. He's just saying things without showing us anything. And what he's saying contradicts other tests, so I'm skeptical. He also seemed to conclude there is little or no performance difference based solely on watts and temperature with no figures on clock speed or actual work.
And he was "too lazy to borrow a base model", so where did he get the tests of it from?
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Mattyman said:
Also, is there any reason why the fans are different in the same 2020 MacBook Pro 13 inch. A bit odd....
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- Where are the photos from?
 
Mattyman said:

this guy suggests the new pro thermal throttles after 5 minutes. Not seen this reported yet....any thoughts if this could be true?
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I haven’t noticed it. I’ve been running Folding at Home (very CPU intensive) and the Ice Lake can run for hours at a time at 3 GHz with all 4 cores running.
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jgorman said:
It is possible, but I would like to see a detailed review. The 2019 $1799 MBP did slightly thermal throttle when you put both the CPU and GPU under load (Its base clock is 2.4 GHz, and it sustained 2.3 GHz).

However, even when the 2019 model thermal throttled, the CPU stayed at 79 degrees C. Some of the early testing shows the 2020 $1799 MBP with the 10th-gen chip quickly hitting and staying at 100 degrees C under load.
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It doesn’t matter if it stays at 100 degrees as long as it runs at its advertised speeds.
 
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JTToft said:
- That was a weird review. He's just saying things without showing us anything. And what he's saying contradicts other tests, so I'm skeptical. He also seemed to conclude there is little or no performance difference based solely on watts and temperature with no figures on clock speed or actual work.
And he was "too lazy to borrow a base model", so where did he get the tests of it from?
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- Where are the photos from?
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These are screenshots from YouTube videos of recent reviews
 
KPOM said:
It doesn’t matter if it stays at 100 degrees as long as it runs at its advertised speeds.
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If an Intel CPU runs at 100 degrees C, then it has reached Tjunction. After that, runaway thermal events can happen, including sudden shutdown.

In addition, the logic board and the other internal components soak that heat. My concern would be for the longevity of these components.

I would like to see a detailed review; maybe it will not actually sustain 100 degrees C.
 
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jgorman said:
I just watched the video again. The $1799 MBP reached 100 degrees C during the single run of Cinebench R20, even with the 10th-gen design and twin cooling fans. I wonder if Apple will allow the new MBP CPUs to sustain performance at 100 degrees C, like the 2020 MacBook Airs.
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jgorman said:
If an Intel CPU runs at 100 degrees C, then it has reached Tjunction. After that, runaway thermal events can happen, including sudden shutdown.
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Apple uses the thermal ceiling of the CPU as the upper performance level. Some other manufacturers use a power-based limit (e.g. 45-50W) to throttle the CPU in sustained mode, Apple uses temperature-based throttling. In other words: they let the CPU draw as much power as it wants while it is still operating within the safe temperature margin. This is how Apple MBP laptops have operated for years now (you can clearly see it when running a CPU-intensive task and watching the system resources).

No "runaway thermal event" will happen since the CPU is carefully monitored not to exceed Tjunction. The system will keep the power/CPU utilization at a level of equilibrium so that the temperature remains constant.

jgorman said:
You are right, but what I found unusual is the $1799 model ran hotter and louder in the Cinebench R20 benchmark, which might be surprising considering it is using a more power-efficient, 10th-gen chip and it has an additional cooling fan.
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The 15W CPU has lower clock limits in multi-core mode which might play a role here. I would speculate that it is hitting some other limits before it can hit the thermal limit. As in: it could run faster given the thermal headroom, but it is being throttled.

jgorman said:
In addition, the logic board and the other internal components soak that heat. My concern would be for the longevity of these components.
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That's what these laptops are built to do. I wouldn't worry about it. In my experience heavy-duty operation has no obvious impact on reliability of the MBP (based on having managed hundreds of 13" and 15" MBPs in a research facility where people routinely run probabilistic simulations on their laptops for hours if no days).
 
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leman said:
No "runaway thermal event" will happen since the CPU is carefully monitored not to exceed Tjunction.
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I would tend to agree with you; however, I did have an older MBA overheat in Bootcamp. It got so hot when it shutdown that the two rear feet fell off because the glue holding them to the case liquified.

Like I said, I am interested in reading a detailed review. To my knowledge, Apple has never let the previous MBPs sustain temperatures like this, so I hope it runs as cool as in previous years, more or less.
 
MacRS4 said:
I have a 10th Gen i5 sat on my desk - you can see a run through of it below. I've not seen it throttling so far. Flat out it averages about 88-92degs. BootCamp to come.

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Thanks for that, that was a really good video, really appreciated the Parallels test as that's one of my main use cases. I have to use Visio and Project for instance for work often so Mac Office won't fully cut it.

I've gone 32GB to have some room. I have to consider information security a lot also so I'll keep my office work segregated in a special Windows 10 VM, I connect out to customer environments and that'll be done from another clean Windows 10 VM with Snapshots and Rollback. I also do quite a bit of configuration automation / DevOps so I'll need some Linux VM's normally for that to test deployments.

What I don't need though is a lot of GPU performance and 4 cores is normally more than enough for what I do as well. I like the portability of a 13in vs 16 so for me, the 13in is actually powerful enough and I'd likely not notice the extra power of the 16in all that much.

I often find a lot of the YouTube types that do these videos assume that only creative professionals would need a higher end machine. Basically the line goes if you need to use Final Cut or Premier then go higher end or 16 but if not the lower models will be fine. There are plenty of other Pro use cases which don't involve you editing videos all day :)

So yes, nice to see a better mixture of usage in your video. Looking forward to seeing what Bootcamp is like.

Do you have any external screens you can try with it to see how it works? I'm thinking of moving to 2 x 4k screens and while I know it supports it, does it do so without lagging or slowing down is the question.
 
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I have it plugged in to an LG 5k right now. It's not really under load though - fans are at a steady 1200ish RPM. Normally they show at 0 when not under load.
 
MacRS4 said:
I have it plugged in to an LG 5k right now. It's not really under load though - fans are at a steady 1200ish RPM. Normally they show at 0 when not under load.
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Oh very nice. Any lag on moving windows around or any lower GUI type performance you’ve noticed over using it on just its internal screen?

Also mind me asking what model LG screen?
 
FastLaneJB said:
Oh very nice. Any lag on moving windows around or any lower GUI type performance you’ve noticed over using it on just its internal screen?

Also mind me asking what model LG screen?
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It's the LG 5K screen - very nice it is too. I haven't really used the 13" in anger on it as yet, but in my light use of not really noticed any lag. I have some work stuff to finish up, I'll run a few tests on it with Video Editing and the like and you record it. Check back in a couple of hours :)
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Screen is specifically this one: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display
 
jgorman said:
I would tend to agree with you; however, I did have an older MBA overheat in Bootcamp. It got so hot when it shutdown that the two rear feet fell off because the glue holding them to the case liquified.
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Windows has a different power management scheme and Bootcamp drivers Apple provides aren't the best. I also occasionally run into some weird performance issues when running Bootcamp.

But I think that the most important message is that Apple designs the MBP so that it reaches its maximal acceptable operating temperature under load. This leads to some confusion here and there since some other manufacturers limit the CPU 10-15C below the Tjuction (either directly or indirectly by power-throttling it).
 
JTToft said:
- I would help if you could tell us exactly which reviews the pictures are from so we can have a look ourselves.
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The fans without silver tops is from the negative review I posted earlier in this topic. The other is from one of the max tech videos on YouTube. I think one comparing the 4 port vs 2 port 2020 model.
 
leman said:
Windows has a different power management scheme and Bootcamp drivers Apple provides aren't the best. I also occasionally run into some weird performance issues when running Bootcamp.

But I think that the most important message is that Apple designs the MBP so that it reaches its maximal acceptable operating temperature under load. This leads to some confusion here and there since some other manufacturers limit the CPU 10-15C below the Tjuction (either directly or indirectly by power-throttling it).
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The question is what temperature will this be for the 2020 MBPs.

The 2019 $1299 MBP will consume 28W when both the CPU and GPU are under sustained load, and temperatures stay at 87 degrees C.

On the other hand, the 2019 $1799 MBP will consume 32W under the same load, but temperatures stay at 79 degrees C.
 
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jgorman said:
Apple, like other OEMs, do limit CPU temperature directly or indirectly. The question is what temperature will this be for the 2020 MBP.

The 2019 $1299 MBP will consume 28W when both the CPU and GPU are under sustained load, and temperatures stay at 87 degrees C.

On the other hand, the 2019 $1799 MBP will consume 32W under the same load, but temperatures stay at 79 degrees C.
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I’ve noticed that under sustained load, the Ice Lake i5 consumes about 32W (total package) and maintains a temperature of around 95C.
 
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Any idea how to download power gadget. When I go to the official website and click on macOS download it goes to a bunk of different links and not sure what to click. It never used to do this. Thanks.
 
MacRS4 said:
There's some tests of the fans here with an external screen - somebody asked for them and I can't remember who.

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Thanks for the review, how would you compare the fan noise of the 16 inch compared to the new 13? I guess a plus with the 13 is that it won't even run the fans until the system is being pushed.
 
The volume levels are about the same on my sound meter - but this bit will sound weird, and it's subjective, to me the 13" is more noticeable? Perhaps it's down to the size of the unit?
 
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