2020 Air with i5 runs HOT!

[deeddawg]

What if the load is caused by video playback? If the video decoding is done by a CPU without a hardware decoder, it will load the CPU. Depending on how big the video window is, rendering will load the GPU.

The OP is just trying to play 1080p60 video without high temperatures and fan noise. That should not require a MBP.

You're applying "should" to something that's not governed by our perceptions of how things ought to be.

Fact is, software decoding VP9 videos will create a sustained CPU load. When performed on a low TDP CPU, that will tend to generate more fan noise than it might on a higher TDP CPU. For whatever reasons, likely product/market differentiation, Apple chose to use low TDP CPUs in the MBA, and chose not to tune them for sustained CPU loading.

If we wish to get into the "shoulds" - Google should provide the option to view 4K videos in H.264/265 even if watching them at 1080p. Apple should enable hardware support for VP9 decode.

But neither is reality, and neither are likely to change anytime soon.

So, if someone feels the need to frequently watch software decoded video codecs, they need to buy an MBP that can better handle the sustained CPU load.

Or they can use Safari and get the 1080p video in H.264/265

Choose the proper tool for the job.

 

[jgorman]

You're applying "should" to something that's not governed by our perceptions of how things ought to be.

Fact is, software decoding VP9 videos will create a sustained CPU load. When performed on a low TDP CPU, that will tend to generate more fan noise than it might on a higher TDP CPU. For whatever reasons, likely product/market differentiation, Apple chose to use low TDP CPUs in the MBA, and chose not to tune them for sustained CPU loading.

If we wish to get into the "shoulds" - Google should provide the option to view 4K videos in H.264/265 even if watching them at 1080p. Apple should enable hardware support for VP9 decode.

But neither is reality, and neither are likely to change anytime soon.

So, if someone feels the need to frequently watch software decoded video codecs, they need to buy an MBP that can better handle the sustained CPU load.

Or they can use Safari and get the 1080p video in H.264/265

Choose the proper tool for the job.

I would say this is a case of consumer expectation of a MBA versus the reality of a MBA.

 

[deeddawg]

I would say this is a case of consumer expectation of a MBA versus the reality of a MBA.

Perhaps for some consumers.

Though the review/ratings of the 2020 MBA on Amazon and BestBuy seem to suggest that far more folks are quite happy with their 2020 MBA than folks who aren't.

I would suggest that those who have a square peg are best served not trying to force it into round holes.

 

[mick2]

The OP is just trying to play 1080p60 video without high temperatures and fan noise. That should not require a MBP.

I just played the first 1080p60 video I found on youtube. I used this one:

I gave the buffer a few seconds to fill, then played it on my i5 the whole way though (~7min30s). 0 frames dropped of 27508, my CPU temps plateaued at ~75degC and stayed there, fan 0rpm the whole time. And it's warm here right now - room temp was 25degC, no AC. Firefox 77.0.1.

And you don't even have to take my word for it - any owner of a 2020MBA can try this exact same test for themselves.

 

[deeddawg]

I just played the first 1080p60 video I found on youtube. I used this one:

I gave the buffer a few seconds to fill, then played it on my i5 the whole way though (~7min30s). 0 frames dropped of 27508, my CPU temps plateaued at ~75degC and stayed there, fan 0rpm the whole time. And it's warm here right now - room temp was 25degC, no AC. Firefox 77.0.1.

And you don't even have to take my word for it - any owner of a 2020MBA can try this exact same test for themselves.

Pretty sure that video is H264 - which is decoded in hardware, and thus has negligible CPU impact.

Your point though is valid - the MBA certainly can play 1080p60 videos without much load.

The trouble is that Apple and Google aren't in agreement on codecs. Thus depending on just what folks are watching, they may end up with software-decoded video instead of hardware-decoded video.

FYI - Try some 4K videos on Vimeo for fun also - Vorticity 2 is pretty cool. Just played that fullscreen on my MBA, selecting the 4K option. Topcase temp above F6 key was 85F at the beginning, 107F at the end. Never heard the fan even with computer muted and my ear to the keyboard.

 

[mick2]

The OP is just trying to play 1080p60 video without high temperatures and fan noise. That should not require a MBP.

Pretty sure that video is H264 - which is decoded in hardware, and thus has negligible CPU impact.

Yeah, aren't all YT 1080p60 videos H264? In which case, why even the OP in the first case?? This whole MBA thing is just the usual mix of drama, exaggeration and bad science, which then gets parotted on forums by internet experts with no actual experience of the things they're pronouncing on. Bah humbug

 

[jgorman]

It is easy to get confused because people do not typically check the codec of a YouTube video before clicking play.

YouTube serves some 1080p60 videos in the VP9 codec in Chrome or Edge. Since the MBA does not have a hardware decoder for this format, playing the video can tax the CPU, which results in high temperatures and fan noise.

 

[deeddawg]

Yeah, aren't all YT 1080p60 videos H264? In which case, why even the OP in the first case?? This whole MBA thing is just the usual mix of drama, exaggeration and bad science, which then gets parotted on forums by internet experts with no actual experience of the things they're pronouncing on. Bah humbug

I've been told that in Chrome, a YT 4K video will still be delivered in VP9 even if viewed at 1080p, and if viewed in Safari it delivers in H264. Downside is it maxes at 1080p in Safari, but IMHO it's immaterial since the MBA screen is lower resolution than 4K. Others may see that differently.

You mentioned you used Firefox. It seems Safari refuses VP9 and thus gets H264, so it may be that Firefox does similar.

What I do know is the same video viewed in Safari at 1080p results in a much lower CPU load than when viewed in Chrome. Used this one:

The crux is the combination of Google Chrome and Google served videos end up with a software-decoded coded whereas using Safari (and perhaps Firefox) result in a hardware codec.
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It is easy to get confused because people do not typically check the codec of a YouTube video before clicking play.

YouTube serves some 1080p60 videos in the VP9 codec in Chrome or Edge. Since the MBA does not have a hardware decoder for this format, playing the video can tax the CPU, which results in high temperatures and fan noise.

Edge is a Chromium browser, so it's effectively Chrome for this discussion.

For some reason, per the post I just posted, Chrome (and Edge) tells Google to send the video in VP9 rather than H264 which is supported by macOS.

Try the same video in Safari and you get H264, and a very different impact on the system.

EDIT: The Unbelieveable Beauty video above - when played fullscreen in Chrome at 4K on my QHD display spins the fans pretty good on my MBP15.

So let's not set a "plays VP9 video without fans" goalpost for an MBA when it's not even achieved with a 6-core i7 MBP15.

EDIT #2: For those who have need to remain with Chrome or Edge, consider trying the H264ify plugin which apparently will fix the problem with Chrome accepting VP9 codec video and force H264.

 

[mick2]

You mentioned you used Firefox. It seems Safari refuses VP9 and thus gets H264, so it may be that Firefox does similar.

Just reran the 1080p60 video from before, and it appears it *was* using the VP9 codec. Firefox. Still no dropped frames, temps ~75degC and this time the fan just came on at minimum rpm (~2500, still silent).

Regardless, we're now a long way from 400Mhz and Notebookcheck so I'll bow out of this one

 

[deeddawg]

View attachment 926806


Just reran the 1080p60 video from before, and it appears it *was* using the VP9 codec. Firefox. Still no dropped frames, temps ~75degC and this time the fan just came on at minimum rpm (~2500, still silent).

Regardless, we're now a long way from 400Mhz and Notebookcheck so I'll bow out of this one

LOL. Yeah, since I focus on real world sound/heat/performance I'm not really concerned with what notebookcheck has to say. My i5 MBA works great for what I bought it for - and even manages a bit of lightroom and photoshop lifting very well.

Gotta ask - since I've never had need/interest in worrying about framerates and such, what is the mechanism to get that status/info box? Looked around a little but saw nothing -- I'm probably missing something obvious as usual.

 

[jgorman]

View attachment 926806


Just reran the 1080p60 video from before, and it appears it *was* using the VP9 codec. Firefox. Still no dropped frames, temps ~75degC and this time the fan just came on at minimum rpm (~2500, still silent).

Regardless, we're now a long way from 400Mhz and Notebookcheck so I'll bow out of this one

How the i5 MBA handles 1080p60 can depend on a few factors. How long the video plays can increase the temperature over time. Also, the GPU's load depends on how large the video playback window is. It seems full-screen playback causes more GPU load than windowed playback. This video shows about five minutes of full-screen 1080p60 raising temperatures to 100 degrees C (he is speaking Japanese, but you can see the temperature in Intel Power Gadget). In the video, when he began playback in a window, his temperatures were in the 70s also, but increased when he went full-screen.

 

[twintin]

That thread is talking about how power draw at idle is higher under Windows, because some idle sleep states of the processor are missing in Bootcamp.

This thread is talking about video playback taxing the processor, during which the processor uses high-performance sleep states, which are available in both Bootcamp and macOS.

I know (which I mentioned). The point is, there are areas where the difference is big. How it applies to video playback, I don’t know, but it seems possible video playback also can show big difference between windows and os x.

 

[jgorman]

I know (which I mentioned). The point is, there are areas where the difference is big. How it applies to video playback, I don’t know, but it seems possible video playback also can show big difference between windows and os x.

The CPU idle sleep states in Bootcamp are unlikely to be related to video playback. In the original post on that thread, the OP said the high-power sleep states, which would be used if the CPU were under load, were present in Windows under Bootcamp.

 

[mick2]

Gotta ask - since I've never had need/interest in worrying about framerates and such, what is the mechanism to get that status/info box? Looked around a little but saw nothing -- I'm probably missing something obvious as usual.

Just a right click on the video when its playing in the browser; brings up a YouTube hooked context menu...use the 'stats for nerds' item 👍

 

[Billiejoe87]

The fact that screwdrivers make poor hammers doesn't make them bad - it just means you bought the wrong tool for the job.

You really need to stop with this comment. It wasn't funny or relevant the first time it was said, and I see months later you are still saying it to anyone who has an issue with the Macbook Air. This is a genuine issue with the Macbook Air, and the heating and poor thermals is a huge part of the reason apple will move to ARM Macbook's.

None of this is to say the Macbook Air isn't a good machine. It is. I bought one for my wife and she loves it. She herself hears the fans come on when just doing surveys on swagbucks and asked me if there was an issue in the beginning. She doesn't care now that she knows it's common, but still.... You should not need a pro machine to be able to watch 1080p60fps video on the worlds most popular video platform without extreme fan noise as the above poster said. This is something that even an old iPhone 6s can do.

These Macbook Air's start at $1,599 here in Australia. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say you couldn't expect a machine that expensive to not struggle with youtube and survey sites.

I've been told that in Chrome, a YT 4K video will still be delivered in VP9 even if viewed at 1080p, and if viewed in Safari it delivers in H264. Downside is it maxes at 1080p in Safari, but IMHO it's immaterial since the MBA screen is lower resolution than 4K. Others may see that differently.

You are correct that the Macbook Air/Pro aren't 4K. They are also higher resolution than 1080p though, and sit in a middle ground between 1080p and 4K. Many of us would therefore prefer a downscaled 4K video which would actually take advantage of the retina display, rather than an upscaled 1080p video.

 

[deeddawg]

You really need to stop with this comment. It wasn't funny or relevant the first time it was said, and I see months later you are still saying it to anyone who has an issue with the Macbook Air. This is a genuine issue with the Macbook Air, and the heating and poor thermals is a huge part of the reason apple will move to ARM Macbook's.

Don't you presume to tell me what to say or what not to say. You're entitled to your opinion, but that does NOT mean you have any standing to tell others to stifle theirs.

My comment stands. If you're trying to do a continuous heavy lifting cpu load on a MBA you've chosen the wrong tool.

Doesn't matter that the load is coming a video/browser combination that forces software-decoding a video codec, or whether that load comes from some site that's apparently known for CPU usage via javascript crypto miners. If those are the sorts of things you need to do, then the MBA is the wrong computer for you.

No amount of complaining about what "should be" changes that fact.

You are correct that the Macbook Air/Pro aren't 4K. They are also higher resolution than 1080p though, and sit in a middle ground between 1080p and 4K. Many of us would therefore prefer a downscaled 4K video which would actually take advantage of the retina display, rather than an upscaled 1080p video.

FWIW - 4K works great if you're using a source with a supported codec. Try some 4K videos on Vimeo.

Youtube in Safari is fine - as it doesn't try to do software decoding of the VP9 codec videos. Chrome on the other hand doesn't try to do that, again generating a sustained CPU load.

As above - if that's the sort of thing you need to do, then the MBA is not the correct computer for you, and the MBP would be the better choice.

You can complain all you want about "should" and "ought to" but that's just shouting at the rain. The square peg is not at fault when it doesn't fit in your round hole.

 

[jmike24]

I wanted to buy but I learned here this is problem. Now I am thinking for another.

 

[emadeaziz]

Try upgrading to the latest version of Catalina. Mine works perfectly fine and cool now.

 

[nobackup]

Pretty sure that video is H264 - which is decoded in hardware, and thus has negligible CPU impact.

Your point though is valid - the MBA certainly can play 1080p60 videos without much load.

The trouble is that Apple and Google aren't in agreement on codecs. Thus depending on just what folks are watching, they may end up with software-decoded video instead of hardware-decoded video.

FYI - Try some 4K videos on Vimeo for fun also - Vorticity 2 is pretty cool. Just played that fullscreen on my MBA, selecting the 4K option. Topcase temp above F6 key was 85F at the beginning, 107F at the end. Never heard the fan even with computer muted and my ear to the keyboard.

Tried both on Safari under Big Sur. No problem Max temp on cpu 81c (177F) and fans at 4250. Don’t really see the issue might be different under Catalina ( noticed that the air seemed to revive a FW update as size was different for the download now also plays the start up Dong. ). I will try same later after in Catalina (still installed on the first partition) YmmV

 

[deeddawg]

Tried both on Safari under Big Sur. No problem Max temp on cpu 81c (177F) and fans at 4250. Don’t really see the issue might be different under Catalina ( noticed that the air seemed to revive a FW update as size was different for the download now also plays the start up Dong. ). I will try same later after in Catalina (still installed on the first partition) YmmV

Nice. I'd seen somehting suggesting possible VP9 hardware support with the new / BigSur version of Safari but hadn't looked into it. (I rarely watch youtube videos of any length, and even then rarely more than within a window).

It'll be interesting to see what folks results are when BigSur is GA.

 

[nobackup]

Nice. I'd seen somehting suggesting possible VP9 hardware support with the new / BigSur version of Safari but hadn't looked into it. (I rarely watch youtube videos of any length, and even then rarely more than within a window).

It'll be interesting to see what folks results are when BigSur is GA.

Well Now on Beta 8 ... and the whole temperature Fan and Battery time have improved again ... thinking of removing my Catalina Partition as this seems rock solid