Foxconn Chairman Raises Uncertainties About U.S. iPhone Manufacturing Plant

[MacRumors]

Uncertainties over Foxconn's manufacturing expansion into the United States have been raised once again, this time following comments made by company chairman Terry Gou, who spoke to reporters at an event celebrating the start of construction on a $8.87 billion display plant in Guangzhou, China (via Nikkei). At the ceremony, Gou told reporters he had just returned from a trip to Washington without confirming if he met with the Trump administration while he was there.

Since the November election, and even before it, the Trump administration has advocated for Apple specifically to make some of its products in the U.S. and not at foreign facilities, leading to multiple reports that Apple suppliers are looking into building large plants stateside. Now, Gou has raised concerns over any of the company's previous U.S. manufacturing plans because he's not sure if the U.S. government can work fast enough to stay ahead of all of the work needed to be done before any company like Foxconn can build a successful, large-scale facility in the states.

"I am concerned as to whether the U.S. can resolve all the investment issues in only a few months' time," Gou said, adding America also lacks the skilled labor and comprehensive supply chain the display industry requires.

"Does the U.S. offer incentive programs for foreign investors? They'll need to pass bills first, and we'll need to wait for American authorities to make a decision first," Gou said.

Ultimately, Gou tried to avoid strictly siding with one country or the other, saying that the best course of action would be to support both once the option became available. "I am not willing to choose between [the U.S. and China]. Why should I give up on any market?" Gou ended the line of questioning from reporters with a pledge for the governments of both countries to avoid a trade war and "get along peacefully."

"It is in the interest of the entire humanity that China and the U.S., the top two economies in the world, can get along peacefully," Gou said. "They are in the process of gambling with each other, and I can foresee that the two will eventually work together to grow [their] economies and deliver beneficial outcome for many. If they don't, then everyone will be losers."

In a separate report from Reuters, Foxconn is now said to have lost ground in its bidding for Toshiba's memory chip business "due to its close ties with China." The Japanese government is worried about "the transference of key technology" if a winning bidder has a close relationship with China, and Toshiba executives are reportedly aware of the government's wishes and "will take into account how close bidders are to China in the selection."

Apple accounts for over 50 percent of Foxconn's total revenue, and because of lukewarm demand for the iPhone 7 in 2016, Foxconn saw its first ever profit decline since the company went public 1991. Optimism has now surrounded the company's 2017 outlook, however, due mostly to excitement for the debut of the "iPhone 8," perhaps called the "iPhone Edition."

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Foxconn Chairman Raises Uncertainties About U.S. iPhone Manufacturing Plant

 

[Cineplex]

Oh please. Greed is why you don't want to be here.

 

[Tycho24]

Duh.
I've ALWAYS said this.
Foxconn's largest facility employs 400,000 workers.
Where would they put that in America & who would work there??
It's not feasible! Ok... imagine they found a place near Los Angeles to put it (unlikely); they'd still need to hire one in eight of EVERY SINGLE resident, just to run the place! Get real.
Not to mention what they said about not finding people accustomed to/fit for that type of labor.
There, it is a badge of pride to work those jobs & do so meticulously.
Here, that's considered garbage "menial labor" & people do those type of jobs begrudgingly, & at the lowest amount of quality they can skate by with, whilst keeping their job.

We DO need new industries & new jobs in our country...... but NOT these type of factory jobs.

Make American Great Again meant pre- industrial revolution????!

 

[DearthnVader]

Building a large scale plant in the US requires 100's if not 1000's of engineers, the US just doesn't have them.

Congrats to people on their SJW degrees, I'm sure the pay and befits are great at Starbucks and all, but maybe people should have put in some work, and gone into a field that is needed in the real world.

 

[69Mustang]

We DO need new industries & new jobs in our country...... but NOT these type of factory jobs.

Make American Great Again meant pre- industrial revolution????!

Foxconn would also have to deal with all those pesky environmental hurdles foisted on them by the EPA.

{EPA being slowly dismantled}

Pre-industrial devolution it is.

 

[Sasparilla]

This sounds par for the course with Foxconn, they were going to build a big facility in Indiana but it just never happened (years later people are still waiting for it)....would expect the same with this - might be (have been?) a nice foil to get a better deal for them in China etc...

Building a large scale plant in the US requires 100's if not 1000's of engineers, the US just doesn't have them.

Congrats to people on their SJW degrees, I'm sure the pay and befits are great at Starbucks and all, but maybe people should have put in some work, and gone into a field that is needed in the real world.

Have to take issue here. We have lots of engineers in the U.S. (whether IT, electrical or mechanical) and they graduate from our colleges every year...that's how you get new commercial rocket company's with massive factories (SpaceX in particular and BlueOrigin) as well as company's like Tesla who is building out a massive factory for their Model 3, as well as silicon valley. Most bitching by large companies multimillionare payed executives regarding engineers really comes down to these workers are too expensive for their profit desires in the U.S. compared to if they just used people from China etc. for a fraction of the price - which is an entirely different issue...as the pay disparity between the top and bottom of the economy is worse than it was in the 1920's.

If Apple wanted to make stuff here (exhibit Mac Pro - notwithstanding the oddball design and neglect it's had), they could, it'd take some time and the people & facilities would cost more than they do in communist China or Vietnam, but they could do it if they wanted it bad enough.

 

[mozumder]

Foxconn is well known for breaking promises: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...89f3de-ee3a-11e6-9973-c5efb7ccfb0d_story.html

The Trump administration, as well as his supporters, are getting played.

 

[69Mustang]

Foxconn is well known for breaking promises:
The Trump administration, as well as his supporters, are getting played.

The Trump administration, as well as his supporters, are getting played... by Trump.

 

[jmgregory1]

In order for the US to go back to being a powerhouse manufacturer, it will require significant shifts in everything from taxes to education andworker pay. And even if we can get these things in line, the future of manufacturing (high volume products like iPhones) will not be done by humans, but by robots. So no long-term on-going mass volume jobs will even come from it. We're going to get to the point in the very near future where we need to re-evaluate what it means to be a productive citizen, as there will be fewer and fewer jobs.

I think the generation that has been focused on doing things by hand, like the growing micro breweries and distilleries, will continue to thrive.

 

[niploteksi]

Building a large scale plant in the US requires 100's if not 1000's of engineers, the US just doesn't have them.

Congrats to people on their SJW degrees, I'm sure the pay and befits are great at Starbucks and all, but maybe people should have put in some work, and gone into a field that is needed in the real world.

The majority of the people only need skills in firing guns or doing science calculations. It's such a waste of government funds to try to educate the masses in areas they will never use. The tasks that cannot be done by robots don't need skilled Labour anyway. Like sweeping complicated alleys or such.

 

[Kaibelf]

Oh please. Greed is why you don't want to be here.

You mean a company doesn't exist to provide you things for no profit?! Next you'll tell me that people expect wages!
[doublepost=1489069349][/doublepost]

Building a large scale plant in the US requires 100's if not 1000's of engineers, the US just doesn't have them.

Congrats to people on their SJW degrees, I'm sure the pay and befits are great at Starbucks and all, but maybe people should have put in some work, and gone into a field that is needed in the real world.

Get back to me when huge portions of the American population stop expecting to make a comfortable living with nothing more than a middle school diploma. It's not people with SJW degrees, it's people with ridiculous expectations of reliving "the old days" and their sustained attacks on anyone who dares to try to get an education.

 

[now i see it]

and because of lukewarm demand for the iPhone 7 in 2016, Foxconn saw its first ever profit decline since the company went public 1991.

Interesting how Apple says the demand was so strong that they couldn't keep up with orders

 

[Rogifan]

Why does Foxconn need to be in the United States? A lot of people in the UK purchase iOS devices. Does Foxconn need to build a factory there too?

 

[Tycho24]

I think there are REAL opportunities to get investment from Chinese companies in the right areas (lucrative pay for HIGHLY skilled labor in nascent markets), if we would just focus on that goal & abandon attempts to promote foreign investment in jobs that will likely be replaced by robotics in less than a decade.

An example of what I'm talking about would be the recent announcement by Didi Chuxing...
They're coming to Bay Area to pay high wages to hard working Americans!
THAT is what we should be promoting.

 

[duffman9000]

Duh.
I've ALWAYS said this.
Foxconn's largest facility employs 400,000 workers.
Where would they put that in America & who would work there??
It's not feasible! Ok... imagine they found a place near Los Angeles to put it (unlikely); they'd still need to hire one in eight of EVERY SINGLE resident, just to run the place! Get real.
Not to mention what they said about not finding people accustomed to/fit for that type of labor.
There, it is a badge of pride to work those jobs & do so meticulously.
Here, that's considered garbage "menial labor" & people do those type of jobs begrudgingly, & at the lowest amount of quality they can skate by with, whilst keeping their job.

We DO need new industries & new jobs in our country...... but NOT these type of factory jobs.

Make American Great Again meant pre- industrial revolution????!

Yup. Why do you think we're so focused on coal?

If 'mericans had to work (and live) in mini manufacturing cities they'd complain complain complain about how good the old days were.
[doublepost=1489070904][/doublepost]

Get back to me when huge portions of the American population stop expecting to make a comfortable living with nothing more than a middle school diploma. It's not people with SJW degrees, it's people with ridiculous expectations of reliving "the old days" and their sustained attacks on anyone who dares to try to get an education.

I was being told (actually yelled at) that I needed a college degree 30 years ago! I know people who made it with just a high school degree, but they have to work much harder than me for less pay. But no, education in this country isn't an investment.

 

[PracticalMac]

Duh.
I've ALWAYS said this.
Foxconn's largest facility employs 400,000 workers.
Where would they put that in America & who would work there??
It's not feasible! Ok... imagine they found a place near Los Angeles to put it (unlikely); they'd still need to hire one in eight of EVERY SINGLE resident, just to run the place! Get real.
Not to mention what they said about not finding people accustomed to/fit for that type of labor.
There, it is a badge of pride to work those jobs & do so meticulously.
Here, that's considered garbage "menial labor" & people do those type of jobs begrudgingly, & at the lowest amount of quality they can skate by with, whilst keeping their job.

We DO need new industries & new jobs in our country...... but NOT these type of factory jobs.

Make American Great Again meant pre- industrial revolution????!

Building a large scale plant in the US requires 100's if not 1000's of engineers, the US just doesn't have them.

Congrats to people on their SJW degrees, I'm sure the pay and befits are great at Starbucks and all, but maybe people should have put in some work, and gone into a field that is needed in the real world.

What makes both of you think Foxconn / Apple make such an enormous factory in US to build the entire product line?

For many reasons the first plant would be modest sized, located in an area with a large labor pool (NE looks ripe), and produce a top-of-line product where the higher product costs are offset by higher price.
Also, it will only supplant main production, not replace it.

Of course it will be challenge, but doable.

Also: regardless of how skilled the labor pool is, there will be some amount of training to assemble iPhones.

 

[Kaibelf]

What makes both of you think Foxconn / Apple make such an enormous factory in US to build the entire product line?

For many reasons the first plant would be modest sized, located in an area with a large labor pool (NE looks ripe), and produce a top-of-line product where the higher product costs are offset by higher price.
Also, it will only supplant main production, not replace it.

Of course it will be challenge, but doable.

Also: regardless of how skilled the labor pool is, there will be some amount of training to assemble iPhones.

That's assuming that consumers are willing to pay that higher price, which seems to go against just about every buying behavior of American consumers who turned to WalMart for low prices, bought clothes that were made in Indonesia because they were cheaper, and made sure Toyota sells more cars here than one can imagine.

In the end, people can talk a lot about how they want "hardworking Americans to be making things again" as an empty platitude, and then vent their faux outrage at a ballot box, but when the chips are down, they choose the cheaper option with their wallet, and those big morals suddenly look pretty flimsy in the face of parting with cold, hard cash.

 

[TheHateMachine]

B-b-but muh MAGA!

 

[Cineplex]

You mean a company doesn't exist to provide you things for no profit?! Next you'll tell me that people expect wages!
[doublepost=1489069349][/doublepost]

Get back to me when huge portions of the American population stop expecting to make a comfortable living with nothing more than a middle school diploma. It's not people with SJW degrees, it's people with ridiculous expectations of reliving "the old days" and their sustained attacks on anyone who dares to try to get an education.

Oh please. There is education and then there is education as a business. All I've seen from the so called "educated" in this country is a bunch of morons that are too busy protesting things that don't matter yet have no idea how to write a check out or how a lease works. In this country a college education is nothing more than a 1940's high school education...and even then it is lacking. Everyone is brainwashed into going to these schools and paying tens of thousands of dollars for what should have been taught in the public school systems. Half of these people going to colleges have no idea what they want to do and then end up majoring in something pointless that doesn't help them at all in the future. We used to teach trades in high school and give kids exposure to all kinds of different things so they would have a good idea by the end what they wanted to do. Not today. Today we just prep them for college with all kinds of rubbish courses and give then no foundation for the future. The 1970's was the last era of proper education in this country. The school systems here in this country are just setting up kids to be customers of the colleges. The only college education worth a damn in this country is for specialized fields like medicine. Go to a state college and you'll learn all about trans gender bathrooms but not how the world works. In every field I have worked in I was amazed at how much these recent grads didn't know, yet the guy that didn't go has a better grasp on the job. I saw that the most in IT. The added benefit of todays education is nobody knows what its like to fail or loose something. If they do bad in school, mommy fights with the school and the grades somehow change. If they do poorly at sports, they get a trophy. If they "try" in certain schools (read coalition of essential schools) that is good enough to pass. It is creating a generation of idiots with a piss poor education they paid $100k for.

We went to the moon is the 1960's...yet todays scientist and industry specialists seem to have no idea how to make that happen. You'd think it would be pretty easy.....but not if you have a lesser education than the people who did it in the first place. The did it on rope memory and a fancy calculator. Today we have a super computer in our pocket that could take us there...yet its taking forever. It took them 9 years to do it in the 1960s and 95% of the things to do it weren't invented. Today we have all the knowledge and better tech, yet nothing is happening.

Our education system is run by morons and things like common core are just a complete waste of time and resources. I think education in the 1940's & 50's worked well for us....let's start there. I've seen the course work for 1-3rd grade recently and it is an appalling mess. There was a section dedicated to convincing kids there is no wrong answer. It was like "if Billy has 20 apples, how may of them are green?" No matter what you put, its correct. What kind of rubbish b.s. is that? How about you wake me up when America learns what education is. Less trans-gender bathroom diversity acceptance education and more "here is how money works".

When I went to school they pretended like 1946 - 2000 didn't exist...so we learned nothing. It was all Greece, Egypt, Romans, Civil War, & Revolutionary War. We also couldn't be bothered to learn how the government works...but I can read hieroglyphics and order a gyro . That's ***** useful.

 

[DrewDaHilp1]

Oh please. There is education and then there is education as a business. All I've seen from the so called "educated" in this country is a bunch of morons that are too busy protesting things that don't matter yet have no idea how to write a check out or how a lease works. In this country a college education is nothing more than a 1940's high school education...and even then it is lacking. Everyone is brainwashed into going to these schools and paying tens of thousands of dollars for what should have been taught in the public school systems. Half of these people going to colleges have no idea what they want to do and then end up majoring in something pointless that doesn't help them at all in the future. We used to teach trades in high school and give kids exposure to all kinds of different things so they would have a good idea by the end what they wanted to do. Not today. Today we just prep them for college with all kinds of rubbish courses and give then no foundation for the future. The 1970's was the last era of proper education in this country. The school systems here in this country are just setting up kids to be customers of the colleges. The only college education worth a damn in this country is for specialized fields like medicine. Go to a state college and you'll learn all about trans gender bathrooms but not how the world works. In every field I have worked in I was amazed at how much these recent grads didn't know, yet the guy that didn't go has a better grasp on the job. I saw that the most in IT. The added benefit of todays education is nobody knows what its like to fail or loose something. If the do bad in school, mommy fights with the school and the grades somehow change. If they do poorly at sports, they get a trophy. If they "try" in certain schools (read coalition of essential schools) that is good enough to pass. It is creating a generation of idiots with a piss poor education they paid $100k for.

We went to the moon is the 1960's...yet todays scientist and industry specialists seem to have no idea how to make that happen. You'd think it would be pretty easy.....but not if you have a lesser education than the people who did it in the first place. The did it on rope memory and a fancy calculator. Today we have a super computer in our pocket that could take us there...yet its taking forever. It took them 9 years to do it in the 1960s and 95% of the things to do it weren't invented. Today we have all the knowledge and better tech, yet nothing is happening.

Our education system is run by morons and things like common core are just a complete waste of time and resources. I think education in the 1940's & 50's worked well for us....let's start there. I've seen the course work for 1-3rd grade recently and it is an appalling mess. There was a section dedicated to convincing kids there is no wrong answer. It was like "if Billy has 20 apples, how may of them are green?" No matter what you put, its correct. What kind of rubbish b.s. is that? How about you wake me up when America learns what education is. Less trans-gender bathroom diversity acceptance education and more "here is how money works".

When I went to school they pretended like the 1946 - 2000 didn't exist...so we learned nothing. It was all Greece, Egypt, Romans, Civil War, & Revolutionary War. We also couldn't be bothered to learn how the government works...but I can read hieroglyphics and order a gyro . That's ***** useful.

You sound like a more blunt Mike Rowe.
For what two-three generations now Americans have been told you have to go to college to make money and be something?

 

[DearthnVader]

You mean a company doesn't exist to provide you things for no profit?! Next you'll tell me that people expect wages!
[doublepost=1489069349][/doublepost]

Get back to me when huge portions of the American population stop expecting to make a comfortable living with nothing more than a middle school diploma. It's not people with SJW degrees, it's people with ridiculous expectations of reliving "the old days" and their sustained attacks on anyone who dares to try to get an education.

Let's not take things straight from the houses moth, let's just all come up with all sorts of crazy theories why Apple, Foxconn, or all the other Tech companies can't move manufacturing back to the US:

There's another catch, and it's one that politicians don't like to talk about: China has many more skilled engineers than the United States does.

Steve Jobs, Apple's late CEO, brought the issue up during an October 2010 meeting with President Obama. He called America's lackluster education system an obstacle for Apple, which needed 30,000 industrial engineers to support its on-site factory workers.

"You can't find that many in America to hire," Jobs told the president, according to his biographer, Walter Isaacson. "If you could educate these engineers, we could move more manufacturing plants here."

In a May interview with AllThingsD, Apple CEO Tim Cook said he agreed with Jobs' assessment.

"There has to be a fundamental change in the education system to bring back some of this [labor]," he said.

When asked if the day would ever come when an Apple product is made in the United States, he said: "I want there to be ... and you can bet that we'll use the whole of our influence on this."

That's a much more upbeat tone than the one his predecessor struck. During their meeting in 2010, Obama asked Jobs how to bring all the iPhone manufacturing jobs back to the United States, according to the New York Times.

"Those jobs aren't coming back," Jobs replied.

 

[PracticalMac]

That's assuming that consumers are willing to pay that higher price, which seems to go against just about every buying behavior of American consumers who turned to WalMart for low prices, bought clothes that were made in Indonesia because they were cheaper, and made sure Toyota sells more cars here than one can imagine.

In the end, people can talk a lot about how they want "hardworking Americans to be making things again" as an empty platitude, and then vent their faux outrage at a ballot box, but when the chips are down, they choose the cheaper option with their wallet, and those big morals suddenly look pretty flimsy in the face of parting with cold, hard cash.

First off, the high end models will cost the same regardless of where made, just the lower profit margin is what Apple will be willing to absorb. If that line makes up only a small % of total then it is acceptable loss.

Think iPhone 7s with 128gb of memory, which I guess make up <10% of total sales.

Second, people are willing to pay more for "made in America", so a special version could be made, with a unique color scheme (solid blue? Blue with Red and White trim?) for $50 more?
Note the Product Red line sells well (granted it is also charity).

 

[konqerror]

Building a large scale plant in the US requires 100's if not 1000's of engineers, the US just doesn't have them.

Congrats to people on their SJW degrees, I'm sure the pay and befits are great at Starbucks and all, but maybe people should have put in some work, and gone into a field that is needed in the real world.

No they don't. 100 engineers with Bachelor's degrees is easy to find. They need 1,000 engineers with AA degrees who can run and maintain high vacuum systems. They need 10,000 high-school only workers who can load the fab machines.

Thanks to high school counselors, professors needing a job, and the government subsidizing cheap college, this country has overeducated itself. There's a huge bubble of people who want to do a Bachelor's level desk job, and no demand for them. All the demand is in the high school-trade school-AA level.

 

[DearthnVader]

No they don't. 100 engineers with Bachelor's degrees is easy to find. They need 1,000 engineers with AA degrees who can run and maintain high vacuum systems. They need 10,000 high-school only workers who can load the fab machines.

Thanks to high school counselors, professors needing a job, and the government subsidizing cheap college, this country has overeducated itself. There's a huge bubble of people who want to do a Bachelor's level desk job, and no demand for them. All the demand is in the high school-trade school-AA level.

I hate to repeat myself, but I have something to backup what I'm saying. Let's see some proof, rather than just pure conjecture?

There's another catch, and it's one that politicians don't like to talk about: China has many more skilled engineers than the United States does.

Steve Jobs, Apple's late CEO, brought the issue up during an October 2010 meeting with President Obama. He called America's lackluster education system an obstacle for Apple, which needed 30,000 industrial engineers to support its on-site factory workers.

"You can't find that many in America to hire," Jobs told the president, according to his biographer, Walter Isaacson. "If you could educate these engineers, we could move more manufacturing plants here."

In a May interview with AllThingsD, Apple CEO Tim Cook said he agreed with Jobs' assessment.

"There has to be a fundamental change in the education system to bring back some of this [labor]," he said.

When asked if the day would ever come when an Apple product is made in the United States, he said: "I want there to be ... and you can bet that we'll use the whole of our influence on this."

That's a much more upbeat tone than the one his predecessor struck. During their meeting in 2010, Obama asked Jobs how to bring all the iPhone manufacturing jobs back to the United States, according to the New York Times.

"Those jobs aren't coming back," Jobs replied.

 

[jweinraub]

Why does Foxconn need to be in the United States? A lot of people in the UK purchase iOS devices. Does Foxconn need to build a factory there too?

Because Americans think they are the only country in the world? I have no idea to tell you the truth. American nationalism is getting worse and worse though.