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23-inch iMac on September 12th?
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Squire said:
Conroe would still be cheaper. Even if Apple received substantial discounts on Woodcrests, they still put two of those in every Mac Pro. We are talking about 1000 bucks for processors alone. Add to that the mucho-expensive RAM, and expensive chipset, and you get makings of a very expensive computer.
Well, yes. Mac Pro is quite cheap when you consider what you are getting. But that doesn't mean that it's cheap as such. Mac Mini is cheap. Mac Pro is cheap when looking at what you get, but looking at the raw cash you are required to pay for one, it's NOT cheap.
Consider this: It has been estimated that each Bugatti Veyron costs VW 7 million to make, when considering the R&D, parts and labour. yet they sell it for "just" 1 million. Does that mean that it's "cheap"?
Help my Decision...
We can all go round and round with the specs, which, as we all know, are totally hidden from all us mortals. What I am dying to find out is WHEN DO I BUY MY IMAC. I hate always knowing there is an update around the corner. I am unfortunately still a PC user, partially due to my wife, partially due to financial restraints, but at least with a PC(tower), I can update for a few years to put off buying a new computer. I HATE PC'S, but LOVE the iMAC design. I had a friend who bought the last gen iMac and took it back for a hot rod PC. He was Lazy!!!. How long does one wait? How upset would you be if you bought, just prior to an apple update? How does one rationalize when to buy, without being disappointed? I could buy before Xmas,(23"iMac if/when available), but come spring.....New OS!!!!!!!!!! How and when do I decide? Feet first?
(I am sick of my crashing hard drive PC)
We can all go round and round with the specs, which, as we all know, are totally hidden from all us mortals. What I am dying to find out is WHEN DO I BUY MY IMAC. I hate always knowing there is an update around the corner. I am unfortunately still a PC user, partially due to my wife, partially due to financial restraints, but at least with a PC(tower), I can update for a few years to put off buying a new computer. I HATE PC'S, but LOVE the iMAC design. I had a friend who bought the last gen iMac and took it back for a hot rod PC. He was Lazy!!!. How long does one wait? How upset would you be if you bought, just prior to an apple update? How does one rationalize when to buy, without being disappointed? I could buy before Xmas,(23"iMac if/when available), but come spring.....New OS!!!!!!!!!! How and when do I decide? Feet first?
(I am sick of my crashing hard drive PC)
baxterbrittle said:
Better go complaing to Steve Jobs and Co. then, since they compare Macs to Dells ALL THE TIME.
And what is this "product matrix" you talk about? Apple USED to have one: one consumer desktop and notebook, one pro desktop and notebook. That hasn't been the case for quite some time.
Your argument seems to be that "Apple does not offer this product at the moment, so you can't wish for this product to become available". Remind me to throw that back at your face when you are disappointed with something Apple releases.
Even shorter: your argument is basically this:
1. Apple is always right
2. When Apple is wrong, refer to rule #1.
Who exactly is hoping for Apple to be like Dell? Is your line of reasoning that since Dell sells minitowers (among other things), Apple should NOT sell one?
It's NOTHING like that. No-one is asking for Apple to "build Dells". What they are asking for is a minitower or equivalent.
You can't wish for such products. I mean, "Apple knows what they are doing", and your wishes for different kinds of product(s) are therefore horribly misguided.
Yep. And people know what Mac Mini is. And Mac Pro. And Macbook. And Macbook Pro. So why couldn't the consumers figure out what "Mac Pro Mini" (for example) is?
This is just absurd and then there are comments saying "all my mates would buy Macs if they had a Mini Tower, they wouldn't use OS X but they'd run windows"
Because Macs are the only computers that could run OS X AND Windows, even though the user would primarily use Windows? Because Apple-hardware is drop-dead gorgerous whereas Dell is.... less so.
I don't find anything absurd about hoping for a Mac, only to use it with Windows. Remember: Apple is a HARDWARE-company. They business is to sell hardware. if people buy Macs to run Windows on them, Apple would be making tons of money, since hardware is what they do for living. OS X is their primary tool to drive their hardware-sales, but if they find additional tools to drive sales, what's wrong with that? Why did Apple release Boot Camp?
No, we want a Mac-Minitower, and not a Dell. What makes you think that minitower == Dell?
It's hard to help someone make an informed decision without knowing
what they need or expect from their system.
General Use, Audio, Video, Games, Office and so on.
In some cases you might want to wait until your primary application
is updated before you buy a new system.
what they need or expect from their system.
General Use, Audio, Video, Games, Office and so on.
In some cases you might want to wait until your primary application
is updated before you buy a new system.
baxterbrittle said:
Obviously Apple would not make a computer to be used as a Windows-machine. It would obviously come with OS X. But like it or not, their current machines already run Windows beautifully! And the day when Apple announced Boot Camp, their shareprice shot up. Apple cares about hardware-sales, and OS X is a tool to sell hardware.
Because Apple compares Macs to Dells ALL THE TIME?
Bucky1974 said:We can all go round and round with the specs, which, as we all know, are totally hidden from all us mortals. What I am dying to find out is WHEN DO I BUY MY IMAC. I hate always knowing there is an update around the corner. I am unfortunately still a PC user, partially due to my wife, partially due to financial restraints, but at least with a PC(tower), I can update for a few years to put off buying a new computer. I HATE PC'S, but LOVE the iMAC design. I had a friend who bought the last gen iMac and took it back for a hot rod PC. He was Lazy!!!. How long does one wait? How upset would you be if you bought, just prior to an apple update? How does one rationalize when to buy, without being disappointed? I could buy before Xmas,(23"iMac if/when available), but come spring.....New OS!!!!!!!!!! How and when do I decide? Feet first?
(I am sick of my crashing hard drive PC)
Wait until the next revision (on the 12th?) and then have your plastic at the ready. If it's an iMac you want and they release this 23" monster, go for it. Don't bother holding off for Leopard. You can always pick that up next summer.
-Squire
Can Apple beat Dell on mid-range tower prices while keeping a decent margin too?
Indeed! A single-processor Mac Pro would still be needlessly expensive for most people. The price of the Mac Pro memory alone is a bit of a turn off. I think it's pretty obvious that there is a market for a mid-range tower, and that it could sell really well if Apple prices it like the Macbook and the Mac Pro, i.e. really competitively relative to other products in the market. Many knowledgeable PC users would jump on the Mac bandwagon if such a mid-range tower was available, and pleasing that crowd could help the Mac market share tremendously as more geeks would start recommending Macs to their friends and family.
That said, I think Apple is trying to up-sell as much as possible, so I do not expect Apple to come out with a mid-range tower anytime soon. The current models are selling well and are bringing in big bucks. Market share is not everything: Apple wants a good margin on each unit sold as well, so I think Apple will wait until its most trigger-happy customers have bought a Mac Pro or a 23-inch iMac which, I assume, are high-margin items. Once Christmas gifts have been unwrapped, when Leopard and Vista finally arrive in 2007, the story might be different and Apple might be tempted to give Dell a good kick in the nuts with the mid-range tower that many here are wishing for. Time will tell...
One more thing... Someone mentioned that the single-G5 towers did not sell well when they were offered. Yes, but it doesn't mean anything with respect to cheap *Intel* Mac towers. A G5 could not run Windows natively and, therefore, could not satisfy the needs of serious gamers who require Windows. A cheap Intel Mac tower would target a market much larger and completely different from the market for cheap PPC towers. Comparing the two, in my opinion, makes very little sense.
AidenShaw said:While of course Apple could release the maxi-tower with a single chip, a smaller mini-tower with a Conroe would have several advantages:
- Conroes are cheaper than Woodies
- Conroe chipsets are cheaper than Woody chipsets
- Conroe memory is cheaper than Woody memory
- A smaller case would be cheaper than the maxi-tower
- It would be smaller - the ProMac is simply enormous
- It could be a convertible, or available in two cases - mini-tower or Home-Theatre-PC pizza-box with tuners and PVR ability
I remember when I seemed to be the only voice calling for a mini-tower - now there's lots of company here!
Indeed! A single-processor Mac Pro would still be needlessly expensive for most people. The price of the Mac Pro memory alone is a bit of a turn off. I think it's pretty obvious that there is a market for a mid-range tower, and that it could sell really well if Apple prices it like the Macbook and the Mac Pro, i.e. really competitively relative to other products in the market. Many knowledgeable PC users would jump on the Mac bandwagon if such a mid-range tower was available, and pleasing that crowd could help the Mac market share tremendously as more geeks would start recommending Macs to their friends and family.
That said, I think Apple is trying to up-sell as much as possible, so I do not expect Apple to come out with a mid-range tower anytime soon. The current models are selling well and are bringing in big bucks. Market share is not everything: Apple wants a good margin on each unit sold as well, so I think Apple will wait until its most trigger-happy customers have bought a Mac Pro or a 23-inch iMac which, I assume, are high-margin items. Once Christmas gifts have been unwrapped, when Leopard and Vista finally arrive in 2007, the story might be different and Apple might be tempted to give Dell a good kick in the nuts with the mid-range tower that many here are wishing for. Time will tell...
One more thing...
Someone mentioned that the single-G5 towers did not sell well when they were offered. Yes, but it doesn't mean anything with respect to cheap *Intel* Mac towers. A G5 could not run Windows natively and, therefore, could not satisfy the needs of serious gamers who require Windows. A cheap Intel Mac tower would target a market much larger and completely different from the market for cheap PPC towers. Comparing the two, in my opinion, makes very little sense.
baxterbrittle said:
No. To stick with your car analogy, imagine if BMW made a subcompact (mini), a station wagon with the hood welded shut (iMac), a dragster/SUV hybrid (Mac Pro), and some motorcycles (MacBook). Nothing else, except maybe a very popular line of stereo equipment and accessories. Asking Apple for a minitower is exactly like saying "I demand you build a 4 door sedan!"
The form factor we're asking for is the single most commonly produced and purchased one in the entire freaking industry. It's not at all an unreasonable thing to expect.
23 inch iMac - I'm in
Couple of points:
I was ready to buy the 20 inch iMac with the free iPod deal, but was waiting to see if Apple was going to bump the specs. Now it looks like they may. Question is whether the iPod deal still applies... Probably not, I think as the coupon says "when you buy a qualifying Mac..." and then goes on to qualify those Macs as what's available currently. I don't see them updating the wording on the coupon for the four days left in the deal (assuming the new iMacs are released on the 12th as rumoured). I'd probably go with the 23" iMac if it comes down to a decision between that and the free iPod, though it eliminates my reasoning for buying one Right Now.
And as to Conroe or Merom, I couldn't care less as long as it's (near) silent. The relative speed difference would probably not be noticeable when not performing benchmarks, but noise is definitely something I'd notice (and will be a welcome relief after my dual G4 450 - which while long in the (saw)tooth still isn't anywhere near unusable as I don't demand too much of it) It'll be passed along to my son.
The minitower debate is interesting, though kinda pointless after awhile: Apple will either decide to make one or not. Personally, I think that Apple is in the midst of a switching frenzy right now (I mean trying to win PC users over), and they're better poised to do this now than at any time I can remember in the past. And a minitower, or at least some sort of inbetween expandable Mac with some elegant Jobs/Ives mojo, is a good bet for them. The million dollar question is whether they can make one and in doing so significantly grow overall unit sales and marketshare. If Steve Job's Magic 8-Ball says something along the lines of "Signs point to yes", then why not? I'm ready to replace my tower with an all-in-one, cause I really really dig the current iMac's form factor (yes, chin and all), but I realise that an expandable affordable Mac would be much more compelling to Windows switchers, just like the ability to run Windows.
But you know, it's not worth getting all worked up over; no one here can change Apple's plans.
peace, y'all
Couple of points:
I was ready to buy the 20 inch iMac with the free iPod deal, but was waiting to see if Apple was going to bump the specs. Now it looks like they may. Question is whether the iPod deal still applies... Probably not, I think as the coupon says "when you buy a qualifying Mac..." and then goes on to qualify those Macs as what's available currently. I don't see them updating the wording on the coupon for the four days left in the deal (assuming the new iMacs are released on the 12th as rumoured). I'd probably go with the 23" iMac if it comes down to a decision between that and the free iPod, though it eliminates my reasoning for buying one Right Now.
And as to Conroe or Merom, I couldn't care less as long as it's (near) silent. The relative speed difference would probably not be noticeable when not performing benchmarks, but noise is definitely something I'd notice (and will be a welcome relief after my dual G4 450 - which while long in the (saw)tooth still isn't anywhere near unusable as I don't demand too much of it) It'll be passed along to my son.
The minitower debate is interesting, though kinda pointless after awhile: Apple will either decide to make one or not. Personally, I think that Apple is in the midst of a switching frenzy right now (I mean trying to win PC users over), and they're better poised to do this now than at any time I can remember in the past. And a minitower, or at least some sort of inbetween expandable Mac with some elegant Jobs/Ives mojo, is a good bet for them. The million dollar question is whether they can make one and in doing so significantly grow overall unit sales and marketshare. If Steve Job's Magic 8-Ball says something along the lines of "Signs point to yes", then why not? I'm ready to replace my tower with an all-in-one, cause I really really dig the current iMac's form factor (yes, chin and all), but I realise that an expandable affordable Mac would be much more compelling to Windows switchers, just like the ability to run Windows.
But you know, it's not worth getting all worked up over; no one here can change Apple's plans.
peace, y'all
MacsRgr8 said:
But it isn't just games...
In terms of "Supported" systems for more and more software made by *APPLE*, the limiting factor has been the GPU. For some features in the OS itself, the GPU has been a limiting factor... Now, many will say, well, it's a PRO app, shut the f**k up.. (Aperture comes to mind) But seriously, since when is the difference between 2 different 2 year-old GPU designs a distinction between Pro, and consumer?
I'd say the majority of consumers don't associate a slight difference between GPUs to if an app will install on their computer or not. I know a guy that was told by a Mac tech, who no longer is used, that Aperture would run on his wife's iMac G5.. More than 'nuf CPU, but the GPU wasn't supported...
I'm sorry, but how many bad experiences can we expect from incoming switchers, that will never comprehend such an idiotic concept?
It seems common sense, that if the GPU is going to be such an important part in the OS, Apple made sw, etc. "User Experience", that the GPU should be upgradable on more than *1* Mac...
Shrug.
Just my $0.02US
jwd
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/P2_3700.aspx
Shuttle has a Mini ATX PC with the ability for Core 2 Duo (Or Core 2 Extreme), 8GB RAM, 2 PCIe slots AND a 400 Watt Power supply built in. The cube was one of the best designs ever - nobody will disagree with that. If apple can bring a Core 2 Duo desktop out with that sort of expandability it would prevent me from throwing away a monitor every 2 years.
It won't compete with the iMac since the iMac will have a screen built in for cheaper. It won't compete with the Mac Pro since it's a quad and this will be a dual, and the Mac Pro has a memory capasity that's twice the size.
Make it start at $1499 without a monitor and people will come.
Shuttle has a Mini ATX PC with the ability for Core 2 Duo (Or Core 2 Extreme), 8GB RAM, 2 PCIe slots AND a 400 Watt Power supply built in. The cube was one of the best designs ever - nobody will disagree with that. If apple can bring a Core 2 Duo desktop out with that sort of expandability it would prevent me from throwing away a monitor every 2 years.
It won't compete with the iMac since the iMac will have a screen built in for cheaper. It won't compete with the Mac Pro since it's a quad and this will be a dual, and the Mac Pro has a memory capasity that's twice the size.
Make it start at $1499 without a monitor and people will come.
It's Showtime!!
Members of the media received email invitations this morning for a special event on Sept. 12 at Yerba Buena Center for the Arts Theater in San Francisco
Members of the media received email invitations this morning for a special event on Sept. 12 at Yerba Buena Center for the Arts Theater in San Francisco
I guess that pretty much confirms the movie store.
That's why you use conroe and P965 instead of a single woodcrest and 5000x. The memory bay is easily big enough for 4 regular DIMM slots instead of the FB-DIMM riser cards.
DrFrankTM said:
That's why you use conroe and P965 instead of a single woodcrest and 5000x. The memory bay is easily big enough for 4 regular DIMM slots instead of the FB-DIMM riser cards.
It's here! Only a bit larger!
According to a press release, Apple releases the 24" iMac today and now also ships all iMacs with Core 2 Duo processors:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060906/sfw053.html?.v=74
/Galex
According to a press release, Apple releases the 24" iMac today and now also ships all iMacs with Core 2 Duo processors:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060906/sfw053.html?.v=74
/Galex
Attachments
New mini's too
New mini's with 1.66 and 1.83 CD's are out too, with options for up to 160 GB HD's at £399...
Bit off topic...
Why though, is an upgrade to 120GB's HD (from 60GB) £100 on a mini and £180 on a MacBook, when they use the same notebook drives?!?
New mini's with 1.66 and 1.83 CD's are out too, with options for up to 160 GB HD's at £399...
Bit off topic...
Why though, is an upgrade to 120GB's HD (from 60GB) £100 on a mini and £180 on a MacBook, when they use the same notebook drives?!?
j_maddison said:
The tech spec sheet is still to be updated but methinks it'll be merom...
http://www.apple.com/uk/imac/whatsinside.html
Too slow... It is Merom
Manic Mouse said:Merom.
Cheapskates
Not sure how the iMac will stack up against the competition when they release conroe alternatives in the same price range. Looks like us Apple users will be stuck on slower hardware again, so much for the Intel transfer ey!
And before anyone says the Intel chips are faster than the G4/G5 chips, everything is relative and at the moment we're using comparable hardware with the wintel community, and merom is no doubt slower than conroe
Jason