27" Apple LED Cinema Display vs Thunderbolt Display. Cinema wins?

[convergent]

Obviously the Thunderbolt Display has better ports and more importantly, an HD Facetime camera. However, if a buyer wants to have the latest and greatest all the time, then the Thunderbolt Display will be dated next fall, when Apple could easily incorporate USB 3.0 (which Ivy Bridge is expected to have), also the HD Facetime cam could be upgraded to 1080p, at 720p although nicer than isight, is not that much better in my opinion over the isight cam.

Issues to remember with Thunderbolt, if you were to Bootcamp, Windows drivers for Thunderbolt displays are not optimized, so using eyefinity would likely not be smooth if it works in the first place. Also, Thunderbolt can transmit 10 watts of power, yet it still cannot power the Little Big Disk (not even the SSD version), and requires an external power source, yet there are many bus-powered USB and Firewire drives. The Thunderbolt connection is also longer than the mini-displayport connection, yet this is a good trade for not having to hook up another USB connection. Since Thunderbolt transmits both mini-display and pci, I wonder if 10 watts of power are continuously being transmitted, even for just display purposes (although pci info is being transmitted if you use the display speakers)...

I appreciate your comments, I can see your point of view that i would have a faulty MBA or Thunderbolt Display, especially if you are not experiencing or noticing any loud fans or warm thunderbolt connection on your setup. The warm thunderbolt connection is similar to touching an AC adapter after using it for a period, not hot but warm.

Good discussion! I agree with you that sticking with the latest and greatest is an elusive strategy, but I would also point out that Apple doesn't tend to keep their displays that up to date, so it may be a while before the TBD gets updated. When I bought my old Dell 30" high color display, it was a whole generation ahead of the panel in the comparable Apple display (prior generation Dell used the same exact LG panel as the then current Apple). I believe Apple never updated their 30" in the time that Dell went through about 4 versions.

I don't do bootcamp, so that is a good thing to consider for those who do. I run Parallels for my windows needs. In my case, I'm running the TBD ports down to a hub under my desk to declutter so other than the Super Drive (which will only work directly connected to the MBA or TBD, all my USB is going to a powered hub connected to the TBD. I do have one powered FW800 drive connected to the TBD... didn't know of its power limitation. And, I'm not using the TBD speakers. Instead I bought a USB sound card so I can connect to my Bose system without another cable.

That's because the TB cable connector contains a signal transciever chip that compensates for the attenuation of the copper cable itself. This is necessary because TB runs at 10 gigabits per second bidirectionally per datalink, and without that chip there would be far too many transmission errors for this high data transfer speed to be feasible. That the connector becomes slightly warm is not anything you should be concerned with however; it is normal and harmless.

Getting Applecare is a nice safety precaution. You may not need it, but if you do then you're covered.


The issue is specifically with flash video, so unless you test with that, you won't be seeing this behavior of course. That's pretty self-evident, wouldn't you say?

Also, no, the brightness of the display won't affect the speed of the fan in the Macbook connected to it. It will of course affect the speed of the fan in the display itself though; the TBD burns a lot of power at max brightness - and I assume the same is true for its ACD predecessor as well.

I have done a bit of flash video and not seen the problems, however I don't sit doing videos all day. So maybe there is a usage model that drives this problem I'm not experiencing. I have spent hours this week doing video conversions in iMovie and Handbrake, and watched several TV episodes which I presume used Flash. But I run Click2Flash so that limits the endless Flash ads on webpages.

The Applecare is a good point. One reason I bought the TBD was I was getting the new MBA and my old Dell display was 4 years old. The difference between what I sold that for and what I paid for the TBD was about $300, and it got added to my Applecare by buying it at the same time. For $300 it was a no brainer to me.

You can't expect to get accurate results using your eyes and OS X calibration tool. You will need to use hardware-based solution such as XRite or Spyder. I've calibrated mine using XRite i1Display Pro and I would say the hue is on par with other displays that I use.

Agree with this. My old Spyder2 won't work with my new setup so I need to pick up a new colorimeter. I'll check out the XRite.

 

[mactopia]

Same fan issue, firmware update solved problem

I have a MBA 2011 I5 with TB and a TB display and had the same fan issue. When I'd use a flash site or even playing HD from iMovie/iPhoto the fan would scream when using the TB display. If I would keep the flash display on the MBA screen, then no problem, even while still using the TB display for other things.

I just performed a firmware update for both the TB display and the MBA and the problem is solved.

 

[ed94582]

I have the same fan issue with my new Thunderbolt display and my MBA 2011 I5 with TB. (13 inch with 256BG Samsung SSD) The fan really kicks in when watching YouTube videos...

I already applied the latest Apple Thunderbolt firmware update and still the same issue...

 

[thekev]

You can't expect to get accurate results using your eyes and OS X calibration tool. You will need to use hardware-based solution such as XRite or Spyder. I've calibrated mine using XRite i1Display Pro and I would say the hue is on par with other displays that I use.

The i1Display Pro is possibly the only one that might yield an acceptable result. LED backlighting typically messes with the color and calibration, especially the greyscale. Anyway you also need to distinguish between calibration and profiling. What you are doing is profiling, as the display has no hardware level adjustment beyond backlight intensity. Profiling works okay if the display is pretty good to begin with and the colorimeter + display is a good match. If it isn't, you can just end up making the display worse.

If you're matching this to a printer and/or desktop viewing booth, some software allows you to adjust the profile slightly after creation for a better match, but profiling isn't going to fix something that looks bad. It helps perfect what you see on screen if it's already pretty close, but it will not give you perfectly consistent results between multiple displays.

 

[mactopia]

Spoke too soon

I thought it went away, but even after the firmware upgrade I still have the same issue. Fan spins between 5k-6k whenever watching flash videos, or even using Gliffy on the TB display...

 

[jamesr19]

I have the same fan issue with my new Thunderbolt display and my MBA 2011 I5 with TB. (13 inch with 256BG Samsung SSD) The fan really kicks in when watching YouTube videos...

I already applied the latest Apple Thunderbolt firmware update and still the same issue...

Switch to use HTML5 option on youtube and that will be much better than flash!

 

[Gordy]

I thought it went away, but even after the firmware upgrade I still have the same issue. Fan spins between 5k-6k whenever watching flash videos, or even using Gliffy on the TB display...

That's normal, well at least normal for flash. Look at the cpu usage with flash it goes through the roof.

 

[mactopia]

That's normal, well at least normal for flash. Look at the cpu usage with flash it goes through the roof.

Thanks - I looked and it certainly does.

It is more than just flash though. Same issue doing a screen record using QuickTime or even watching a video in iPhoto taken from my iPhone. All of which are fine on my iMac. Guess I'll take it in and see if there is anything that can be done.

 

[Fastball32]

Thanks - I looked and it certainly does.

It is more than just flash though. Same issue doing a screen record using QuickTime or even watching a video in iPhoto taken from my iPhone. All of which are fine on my iMac. Guess I'll take it in and see if there is anything that can be done.

Please keep us updated if you decide to return it to Apple. I would assume the outcome would largely depend on the Apple Store manager you talk to. Wondering if they say it's a Thunderbolt Display or MacBook Air problem.

 

[Gordy]

Thanks - I looked and it certainly does.

It is more than just flash though. Same issue doing a screen record using QuickTime or even watching a video in iPhoto taken from my iPhone. All of which are fine on my iMac. Guess I'll take it in and see if there is anything that can be done.

Does the cpu usage spike when doing these things as then it is normal behaviour? Basically if the cpu is working hard the fan will come on and it is audible.

 

[FEINT]

I have the 2011 MBP 15" with the 2.2 i7 quad core and 8gb of ram. It would idle around 40-50 deg at 1999rpm with a few basic programs open.

I just picked up a Thunderbolt display and it idles between 70-80degs now with the fan approx 2,500rpm.

I don't know why but it seems that the thunderbolt display makes my MBP idle much hotter.

 

[toxic]

The lower max brightness is concerning, is Apple using cheaper parts now? It was my understanding that the LED panel should be the same, so I'm not sure why I'm noticing this or if it is just my unit.

that's just sample variation. the panel and backlight are separate parts, the panel is the same, who knows about the backlight. in any case, brightness is a marketing thing, who's going to use a brightness setting that gives them eye strain?

Finally posting a picture I took in the dark. On the left is the thunderbolt display hooked up to my MBA, the right is my cinema display hooked to a mac pro, both at 100% brightness for the pic. It's hard to tell on the picture, but it seems the one on the right is slightly brighter, but both are nice. Also maybe it's me, but does the one on the right seems to have a warmer hue? Both are calibrated using the Apple Display calibration in OS X.

you need a hardware colorimeter to judge color and match monitors.

 

[Fastball32]

I have the 2011 MBP 15" with the 2.2 i7 quad core and 8gb of ram. It would idle around 40-50 deg at 1999rpm with a few basic programs open.

I just picked up a Thunderbolt display and it idles between 70-80degs now with the fan approx 2,500rpm.

I don't know why but it seems that the thunderbolt display makes my MBP idle much hotter.

I appreciate all the users' comments about the early problems with the Thunderbolt Display. I started this thread because it was very noticeable that my MacBook Air's fans were screaming with Flash sites. I have updated all firmwares and it continues to do so.

Since then, I have exclusively used my older Apple Cinema Displays (I have both 27" and 24" available), and my MacBook Air fans are silent.
Until this problem gets resolved, my Thunderbolt Display will be sitting in the corner collecting dust.

Like I mentioned before, it may be a good idea to get an older 24" or 27" Cinema display for a good deal, rather than pay full price for the Thunderbolt display.

 

[FEINT]

I appreciate all the users' comments about the early problems with the Thunderbolt Display. I started this thread because it was very noticeable that my MacBook Air's fans were screaming with Flash sites. I have updated all firmwares and it continues to do so.

Since then, I have exclusively used my older Apple Cinema Displays (I have both 27" and 24" available), and my MacBook Air fans are silent.
Until this problem gets resolved, my Thunderbolt Display will be sitting in the corner collecting dust.

Like I mentioned before, it may be a good idea to get an older 24" or 27" Cinema display for a good deal, rather than pay full price for the Thunderbolt display.

Thank you, I really appreciate the thread! It is a pity that I already purchased my thunderbolt display as I had thunderbolt on the MBP. I should have had a read before buying, I didn't fathom that a monitor would increase the heat of a notebook.

Hopefully others buying will read this prior to purchasing!

 

[Fastball32]

Point for Thunderbolt Display

The recent announcement that Intel's next generation integrated graphics will be able to handle 4K displays is a big selling point for Thunderbolt LED Displays. The current MacBook Air's and Mac Mini Server will only allow one external monitor through the Thunderbolt Displayport. Next year's Ivy Bridge will allow even the base models to Daisychain 2 Thunderbolt Displays through one port.
I love the convenience of MacBook Air's, and I think I will always own one, so the future flexibility of having the ability to drive dual monitors is something that should be considered when it is time to purchase.

 

[thekev]

you need a hardware colorimeter to judge color and match monitors.

Even that isn't a guaranteed match. I'm not trying to nitpick. I just want to mention this as some people who read the thread may know very little about displays, color management, etc.

 

[convergent]

Like I mentioned before, it may be a good idea to get an older 24" or 27" Cinema display for a good deal, rather than pay full price for the Thunderbolt display.

Your recommendation is based on an experience that differs from other people using the same hardware that have commented here.

I would highly recommend the Thunderbolt Display, consider myself a power user, and I use the TBD probably 10+ hours every day and have not experienced the problems you are having.

 

[Lennyvalentin]

I didn't fathom that a monitor would increase the heat of a notebook.

It's not the monitor that causes this, it's a software glitch specific to watching flash video that causes the player to run in software decoding mode, thus causing high CPU load. That is what is generating the heat, not the monitor itself.

Apple, and/or Adobe, will have to release a fix for this issue.

If you just stay away from flash (perhaps easier said than done at this stage of development of the internet...) you won't be affected.

Hopefully others buying will read this prior to purchasing!

That's going well overboard. The Thunderbolt Display is a magnificient piece of kit, you shouldn't avoid it just because of Adobe's crappy Flash player. No, enjoy your TBD, its range of I/O extension options and the great general quality of the display and the video image it produces. You'd be hard-pressed to find another display with the color fidelity, brightness and contrast that this one has. My Samsung 27" display I use for my PC cannot match my Apple TBD, that's for sure.

 

[Oli3000]

I REALLY wanted to buy the 27" Thunderbolt Display, but because it isn't backwards compatible it totally shafted me and I ended up getting a 24" ACD at a good price to tie me over!

I will be upgrading my 2010 air to thunderbolt, but not until I have had value for money out of it, and when I do upgrade I want all of those extra ports! But not being backward compatible is just plain stupid Apple!

Sort it out!

 

[thekev]

Issues to remember with Thunderbolt, if you were to Bootcamp, Windows drivers for Thunderbolt displays are not optimized, so using eyefinity would likely not be smooth if it works in the first place. Also, Thunderbolt can transmit 10 watts of power, yet it still cannot power the Little Big Disk (not even the SSD version), and requires an external power source, yet there are many bus-powered USB and Firewire drives.

I'm wondering if this is true in its current implementation. Note how the suggested PC spec included a separate power connector.

 

[Joseph Farrugia]

Spyder2

Agree with this. My old Spyder2 won't work with my new setup so I need to pick up a new colorimeter. I'll check out the XRite.

My Spider2 does work beautifully with my MBP 2011 running Snow Leopard,
maybe you are running Lion?
If you're running SL, make sure to d'load the latest drivers.

Hope this helps somebody.

JF

 

[lylefk]

Sorry to go slightly OT, but did you sell your 27" Cinema Display online? If so, where at? I'm trying to sell one and not having much luck. Seems to be such a small niche item...

Finally joined here (long time site reader) hoping to find a classifieds section with no luck.

Thanks!

 

[jsolares]

Sorry to go slightly OT, but did you sell your 27" Cinema Display online? If so, where at? I'm trying to sell one and not having much luck. Seems to be such a small niche item...

Finally joined here (long time site reader) hoping to find a classifieds section with no luck.

Thanks!

You need a decent post count and several months before you can see the classifieds section, not sure how many posts or how long heh

 

[lylefk]

It's 3 months and 250 posts. Ridiculous, 250 posts?! That would be all ******** OT posts (like this one).

 

[convergent]

My Spider2 does work beautifully with my MBP 2011 running Snow Leopard,
maybe you are running Lion?
If you're running SL, make sure to d'load the latest drivers.

Hope this helps somebody.

JF

I'm running Lion.