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vinceger

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 1, 2018
5
0
Hi there,

I would like to have your advice for backing up my computer, iMac 2017 with 512 SSD, and I found two options myself but I do not know what I can do best. Because I have the best experience with Lacie, I thought I would stay with this brand.

I myself thought the following configuration:

LaCie 2big Quadra 12tb usb 3.0 (RAID 1) | divided in 3 partitions) i.c.w. Backblaze cloud backup
  • 3tb for TimeMachine
  • 1tb for SuperDuper (Bootable Hard Drive)
  • 2tb for music en movies
vs

LaCie d2 Thunderbolt 6tb (divided in 3 partitions) i.c.w. Backblaze cloud backup
  • 3tb for TimeMachine
  • 1tb for SuperDuper (Bootable Hard Drive)
  • 2tb for music en movies

Do I need to go for the redundancy of RAID 1 (I could use my old 1tb for SD my SSD) or for the Seagate Barracuda Pro enterprise-class drive ?
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,718
RAID gives you redundancy, so that your data is safer, since this is a second copy of your data, i.e., the backed up copy of your data on your iMac, I don't see a need to use RAID. The only fly in the ointment, if you will is the 2TB partition for your music. That will give you redundancy for that aspect. Will you be backup your music/movie partition to another drive?
 

vinceger

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 1, 2018
5
0
Thank you maflynn, I wil backup my music/movie partition only to Backblaze cloud backup, because I guess it's not that important and mostly 'easy' to download again if needed. (also in the future I maybe get Apple music..)
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,718
I wil backup my music/movie partition only to Backblaze cloud backup,
Ok, I misunderstood, the post, that's my bad. In that case, then the non-RAID option is what I would select if it were me :)
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
6,951
3,076
If I read your configurations right, all are on one hardware enclosure, multiple physical disks, which are treated as one partitioned disk. The risk here is if the LaCie enclosure fails you lose the entire disk, all backups. Enclosures do fail. I've discovered that the hard way.

Given the golden rule that you need 3 backups on 3 different devices on 3 different media types, you don't want to have Time Machine and Super Duper on the same physical enclosure, unless they are on independent disks which are usable if you remove them and place them in another vendors enclosure (no proprietary formatting). So you could have TM on one disk, Super Duper on another, and then your 3rd backup would be on Backblaze. But it would be better to have TM and Super Duper running on different enclosures.
 
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960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,731
1,609
Destin, FL
I would like to have your advice for backing up my computer, iMac 2017 with 512 SSD
iCloud.
Organize your data under the MyDocuments directory. Check the box to include iCloud MyDocuments folder in iCloud.

This saves us from ourselves: it requires no thought and does not matter if your computer burns up in a fire, lost in a flood, theft or hurricane. Your data will still be recoverable.

All documents saved into MyDocuments are backed up to the cloud. Working projects can be saved outside of the MyDocuments folder, but be careful as hubris is the most likely cause of data loss.
 

Mikael H

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2014
864
539
iCloud.
Organize your data under the MyDocuments directory. Check the box to include iCloud MyDocuments folder in iCloud.

This saves us from ourselves: it requires no thought and does not matter if your computer burns up in a fire, lost in a flood, theft or hurricane. Your data will still be recoverable.

All documents saved into MyDocuments are backed up to the cloud. Working projects can be saved outside of the MyDocuments folder, but be careful as hubris is the most likely cause of data loss.
I’m sorry, but this is not advisable from a backup standpoint: A good backup should provide a guaranteed ability to return to earlier versions of documents, along with storing copies of deleted documents long enough that you have the time to realize something is gone from your work area before it’s permanently deleted from all places it was stored. These are not as far as I know features of iCloud.
For personal use, the least I would recommend is a combination of TimeMachine and iCloud storage in addition to the computer’s internal storage. For professional use, you should really have on-site and off-site backups along with an archive that can’t be accessed by the computer being archived.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,731
1,609
Destin, FL
I’m sorry, but this is not advisable from a backup standpoint: A good backup should provide a guaranteed ability to return to earlier versions of documents, along with storing copies of deleted documents long enough that you have the time to realize something is gone from your work area before it’s permanently deleted from all places it was stored. These are not as far as I know features of iCloud.
For personal use, the least I would recommend is a combination of TimeMachine and iCloud storage in addition to the computer’s internal storage. For professional use, you should really have on-site and off-site backups along with an archive that can’t be accessed by the computer being archived.

I’m sorry, but this is not advisable from a backup standpoint:
  1. iCloud backup is automatic, requires no user input. This is the greatest failure of all backups today, the human. So in the largest failure of backups iCloud wins.
  2. The second most common failure of backups are on site loss. Most non commercial users fall into this category. Again iCloud solves this. Just by using iCloud you are removing two of the most common failures of backups.
A good backup should provide a guaranteed ability to return to earlier versions of documents...
You are writing about commercial level stuff here. Fortunately iCloud and Apple software has your back even here. I can view "All previous versions" of Pages, Keynote and Numbers documents from within the application UI. I use git for all source code, also store privately within iCloud. Publicly viewable code is pushed to github repositories as well.

...along with storing copies of deleted documents long enough that you have the time to realize something is gone from your work area before it’s permanently deleted from all places it was stored.
iCloud stores deleted documents for 30 days. Should be long enough for most non commercial users.
 

Mikael H

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2014
864
539
  1. iCloud backup is automatic, requires no user input. This is the greatest failure of all backups today, the human. So in the largest failure of backups iCloud wins.
  2. The second most common failure of backups are on site loss. Most non commercial users fall into this category. Again iCloud solves this. Just by using iCloud you are removing two of the most common failures of backups.
I agree with you up to this point.

You are writing about commercial level stuff here.
And here I begin disagreeing with you:
TimeMachine on the Mac does this for free as long as you supply somewhere to store the data. So do the Windows and Linux agents for Veeam. So does, for example, Backblaze if you pay them for suppling the (off-site) storage. This isn't commercial level stuff; it's a basic requirement for any backup solution. Any less advanced and you might as well just manually keep copying stuff somewhere and hope you never screw up in the process or get hit by some crypto malware.

Fortunately iCloud and Apple software has your back even here. I can view "All previous versions" of Pages, Keynote and Numbers documents from within the application UI. I use git for all source code, also store privately within iCloud. Publicly viewable code is pushed to github repositories as well.
So on one hand real backup software was too complicated for regular users, and on the other you expect the kind of person who forgets to connect their external drive to learn to use Git for all content that isn't natively version controlled by macOS+iCloud Drive? Sorry, but you can't have it both ways...

iCloud stores deleted documents for 30 days. Should be long enough for most non commercial users.
It is, but again, it's not a backup, it's merely a cloud-based "trashcan" for the latest version of whatever project you were working on for all file types that aren't natively version controlled by your Mac.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,731
1,609
Destin, FL
So on one hand real backup software was too complicated for regular users, Sorry, but you can't have it both ways...
Do not believe I mentioned anything about the complexity of Backup Software, just that it is outdated.

...and on the other you expect the kind of person who forgets to connect their external drive to learn to use Git for all content that isn't natively version controlled by macOS+iCloud Drive?
I do not expect anything. I hope that users choose modern software if they wish to have a modern workflow. If you choose to use obsolete software, then I hope they would choose to learn, at a minimum, modern version control solutions.


It is, but again, it's not a backup, it's merely a cloud-based "trashcan" for the latest version of whatever project you were working on for all file types that aren't natively version controlled by your Mac.
iCloud documents can be used for any project. There was the mention of iCloud not handling deleted documents well. I disagreed.

There is very little reason to maintain a backup of a backup ( which version would you trust is current? ). Choose a modern, mostly user proof solution and the world will be happy.

I truly cannot count the number of times I have in the past had onsite and/or offsite backups fail due to degradation, current software versioning no longer being compatible with the backup and the time spent attempting to locate the 'lost' file in the mess of 2.5TB, 7 day onsite rotational backups, 30 day near offsite rotational backups, 5 year ( weekly incremental ) far offsite backups only to have the file not work for a multitude of reasons. I've pulled a 5 year backup ( we keep backups for 50 years ) that no longer was compatible with the entire mainframe OS, not to mention we no longer could purchase nor had a drive that would read it, yet we still pay for the 50 years of backups due to law. Good luck in recovering those files.

I believe in KISS with backups. iCloud seems to check every button for only a couple of dollars a year for most users.
 
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Keebler

macrumors 68030
Jun 20, 2005
2,960
207
Canada
Hi,

Others have provided feedback for what hardware you should use. I'll add this about Raid - 1 of my Raid boxes experienced a hd crash. I was able to find the most recent model (1 number off on the end of the model #), but same capacity. It rebuilt just fine.

That all worked because the data was spread out across all drives.

Everything was backed up except my Aperture library file (mistake on my part!). Not a huge deal as I'm finally moving away from it, but I did panic. I use Carbon Copy Cloner to back up specific folders to different drives.

So in other words, go Raid for sure. :)

I have triplicate backups of my photos and videos with the last backup stored in a bank safety deposit box. Just to be safe.

Good luck!
Brian
 

Mikael H

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2014
864
539
I believe in KISS with backups. iCloud seems to check every button for only a couple of dollars a year for most users.
I agree with what I take away as the general geist of your post; that any backup solution that people actually use is better than no restorability. I’ll also say that if the iCloud drive got real and general version management I’d have no problem recommending it as ”the” backup solution, to someone in the Apple ecosystem. But when someone asks for advice on a ”3-2-1” backup solution as the OP did in this thread, I can’t with a good conscience stay quiet when someone recommends them to go ”1-1.5-1” (yes, I exaggerate a bit).

As for ”outdated” solutions: I agree that TimeMachine could do with some serious feature updates, like leveraging the potential benefits of APFS for filesystem clones/snapshots, and gaining iCloud storage support. That would be a potential solution to both of our standpoints: Macs could automatically back themselves up off-site with no user interaction required after logging on to the iCloud account; and all file types would be automatically version controlled for as long as your storage tier allows.
 
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